Fiance' was cheating while PREGNANT

[verysadguy 170]

I am proud to call myself one loving, determined, devoted and unfailing daddy. And not an abuser

[novedsac 355]

I am proud to call myself one loving, determined, devoted and unfailing daddy. And not an abuser

That's right ...

And it gets better as the kids grow older ...

[TBoneTX 45,865]

I am proud to call myself one loving, determined, devoted and unfailing daddy. And not an abuser

And a major hoorah to VSG for this.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Well these last few pages have been quite a ride. Its funny how the internet has advanced so much yet its still the same. Ive heard it said the expression/cartoon no one knows if your dog when youre on the internet isnt true anymore- but it really is, because all you truly know about someone is what they choose to share- or rather not share.

V.sadguy. I never said you were an abuser or abusive. I fully acknowledged that your wife exploited the system. It was very interesting to hear you say for the first time the crux of the VAWA claim by your ex "But, apparently catching my wife cheating and confronting her about it was abusive. And that caused depression and PTSD when I kicked her out of the house. She was so traumatized and claimed those things with her psychologist "

All I said was a lot of things didnt add up. Things that you chose to not answer.

Novedsac chose to offer his POV about things, but its just his opinion- neither right nor wrong. No one can answer the questions but you.

Sandra did weigh in on situations where mothers abandon children. Her belief is the mother has poor morals and chose to remove herself from the childs life.

So maybe my example of an abusive relationship between parents affecting the mother/child relationship was misplaced or seen as being implied here. But the bottom line sentence that the parents relationship can cause the mother not to bond or harbor negative feelings or simply abandon the child. I still stand by that. It may not be 'the thing' here. Its just something to consider.

(no offense to dear Sandra I dont know in what capacity of counselling you were involved in for many years- but there is always some underlying issue that explains the behavior and not just 'you have a broken moral compass'- you cant be helped Im sorry thanks for coming in)

I also find it odd that Sandra did not comment on v.sadguys comment

2nd petition did not end in VAWA. She went back to Vietnam. We never married.
The second petition occured before 1st VAWA was adjudicated. And I did consult Sandra.

when I asked him multiple times

*Did Sandra advise you you would be on a blacklist or be barred from petitioning again once your ex wifes VAWA was adjudicated?

So no answer from him and no answer from her.

sigh. it is was it is I suppose.

But I suppose its about that time to sweep it all back under the rug because no one likes to upset the balance on here...peace and love to all.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

So maybe my example of an abusive relationship between parents affecting the mother/child relationship was misplaced or seen as being implied here. But the bottom line sentence that the parents relationship can cause the mother not to bond or harbor negative feelings or simply abandon the child. I still stand by that. It may not be 'the thing' here. Its just something to consider.

I simply believe that some 'mother' considers children a hindrance to develop new relationships.

[Sandra G. 5,057]

Damara I help people all the time with VAWA. I am a member of visa journey since 2005. If someone wants to know what Law states something about VAWA then the person must set up an appointment to see me and pay for my services. Do I have to post the Law here,absolutely not.I am here doing a favour.

I have specialization in DV. To work as a counselor I had to study for that and to work 1.500 hours with victims of DV in order to receive my credential,then I became an advocate for victims of DV over 20 years ago. I am an attorney since 1989, and handling VAWA since 1994. My experience in domestic violence clearly shows me that abuse is not an excuse to leave a child behind,it's a conscientious choice and in very sad case his ex wife was not abused,she is just a scammer.

Edited March 6, 2015 by sandranj

[Villanelle 4,122]

^ what in the heck ?

Do I have to post the Law here,absolutely not.I am here doing a favour.

While this is totally understandable - this :

If someone wants to know what Law states something about VAWA then the person must set up an appointment to see me and pay for my services.

wow. .. just Wow.

All the question was was for clarification about a statement v.sadguy made that people on the receiving end of VAWA claims are blacklisted/barred with USCIS. Something he said he confirmed with you and another prominent attny. And you are refusing to comment on it. Going so far as to say I should set up an an appt and pay for you to clarify the matter (?!) Um okay...

And by the way Im not questioning your experience as an attorney or as an advocate of DV. So theres no need to keep trotting out your resume as you do whenever you feel someone is challenging you. Trust me everyone knows who you are.

So If I understand this correctly you received a counselling credential of some sort over 20 years ago, when you became a DV advocate. Honestly thats great and I sincerely applaud the work you do.

But you have to acknowledge at the very least that each of us carries with us our own personal feelings into our work and it affects us. A statement like 'my experience show me abuse is not an excuse to leave a child behind' (snip), well thats judgmental. It may be true, but its a personal judgmental feeling and certainly not something they taught you way back in your counseling certification course.

You dont judge people when you are counseling them or decide whom to help or who to ignore. And Ive personally seen you tell potential VAWA applicants to not bother seeking your aide if they havent left their abusers or if they are concerned about what will happen to their abusers because you feel they havent severed ties yet and are at a greater risk for returning to the abusive situation or not following through. But hey, its your personal time so its up to you who you want to help for free and who you want to charge- like me- asking for clarification.

But does every paragraph HAVE to end with v.sadguys wife was a scammer? Its clear she abused the system and fluffed a claim and gained the system. Its the only part that is clear.

[rlogan 2,036]

I never insisted all use of that term is derogatory. As you pointed out- lots of times it is appropriate- privilege of marriage like you said- personal inside jokes and banter between intimate partners.

I was talking about one specific scenario. Not lightheartedly 'policing each others behavior' like when one person is going off for girls/boys night- a trip to vegas- trying to quit smoking- trying to reduce sugars because they are borderline diabetic etc. But a very specific scenario. Man goes to work, woman is a stay at home wife. Man returns home and questions wife have you been a good girl? Really? In what context is that appropriate? What policing of behavior does a stay at home wife need?

I've resisted the temptation to point out all of the manipulative tactics you use, the most notable being to deny what you are doing while in the middle of doing it. It has become relevant because false VAWA accusations are based on these well known manipulative tactics.

I just explained that when we police each other's behavior that the term "boy" or "girl" is social convention, i.e. "Have you been a good boy/girl". Specifically regarding sexual impropriety. You've done several things simultaneously here, like false VAWA claimants - first, to call this child-abandoning adulteress a "stay at home wife". She's framed as the goody-two-shoes victim with that cunning word choice, and by framing her that way the question about what this child-abandoning adulteress would need policing for pretends to be reasonable. False VAWA claims are just that: an outrageous act framed as reasonable.

Manipulative people like to work with insinuation so that they can deny what they are doing. So "I never said you were abusive" is a perfect example of this after incessantly demanding an explanation for why he would have any right to police this poor innocent child-abandoning adulteress' behavior. You incessantly use this rhetorical question (in what context is that appropriate?) to make the accusation while denying you are making the accusation.

Thanks to sandranj for that intervention. Because the other thing happening is a blame-the-victim tactic. Someone defending themselves against a false VAWA is framed as bothersome and even dangerous, especially when we can stack it together with a lot of other maliciously manipulative framing. Insinuating this child-abandoning adulteress' behavior is the result of his abuse is a classic blame-the-victim tactic. Repeating it endlessly even when decisively proven wrong is one of the most cherished tactics of propaganda.

Then there is the repeated casting of aspersions upon him and now "dear" sandranj for not answering something to your satisfaction. Manipulative people like to use false flattery like that while making an accusation, as if that removes their responsibility for making the accusation.

Sheesh - using the small print to draw even more attention to this repeated harassment is what we call "minimization", coupled with words like "just" and "only" - I am "just" asking this question incessantly to insinuate verysadguy is abusive and now sandranj as guilty of concealing something that if only known will prove verysadguy to be abusive.

"peace and love to all" - lol, that's great. While making war and hate on the central figure of this thread. That's what a false VAWA claimant does: look at me wishing peace and love upon the whole world. Don't trust your lying eyes watching me make these malicious insinuations over and over again.

All of these manipulative tactics are outlined in books on abusive personality disorders. Ironically, they are the very things a TRUE VAWA claimant can use to demonstrate psychological abuse being perpetrated upon them. On an anonymous forum these abusive tactics are especially dangerous because it is the same setting a lynch mob exploits: nobody is going to be personally held liable for being one of the sharks who sees blood being spilled and joins in on the frenzy. Bullying scammer victims is common at VJ. If they dare say something about having the scammer sent home then a guaranteed result is someone saying how dare he view the (scammer) as a commodity. It is an unfair accusation, but it feels good to be the one pointing the finger and even better to be part of a mob tearing someone up.

[Villanelle 4,122]

Why dont you tell me how you really feel? lol.

Look I dont know you, Im not familiar with any of your posts in the forums, but its apparent you have strong feelings here- especially towards me for some reason...

I've resisted the temptation to point out all of the manipulative tactics you use, the most notable being to deny what you are doing while in the middle of doing it. It has become relevant because false VAWA accusations are based on these well known manipulative tactics.

I just explained that when we police each other's behavior that the term "boy" or "girl" is social convention, i.e. "Have you been a good boy/girl". Specifically regarding sexual impropriety. You've done several things simultaneously here, like false VAWA claimants - first, to call this child-abandoning adulteress a "stay at home wife". She's framed as the goody-two-shoes victim with that cunning word choice, and by framing her that way the question about what this child-abandoning adulteress would need policing for pretends to be reasonable. False VAWA claims are just that: an outrageous act framed as reasonable.

Lets re-examine this for a second.

Youre calling my words a 'cunning word choice'- meanwhile you are the one using terms inappropriately. You state- my question about what this child abandoning adulteress would need policing for is unreasonable. At the time the policing was being done she may have in fact been an adulteress- but it was unknown - and she certainly not had abandoned her child.

So you cant hold future crimes against someone to justify past actions. (Hmm good thing I policed her- she turned out to be a child abandoning adulteress!) At the time though she was just a stay at home wife and there was no reason to believe she was guilty of otherwise. That is reasonable.

...Because the other thing happening is a blame-the-victim tactic. Someone defending themselves against a false VAWA is framed as bothersome and even dangerous, especially when we can stack it together with a lot of other maliciously manipulative framing. Insinuating this child-abandoning adulteress' behavior is the result of his abuse is a classic blame-the-victim tactic. Repeating it endlessly even when decisively proven wrong is one of the most cherished tactics of propaganda.

I have no idea what you are saying here-directly/indirectly- Im just totally lost. Who exactly frames those defending themselves against false Vawas as bothersome and dangerous? I personally have helped several defend against false VAWA claims and frequently post in those threads advice on how to avoid such claims in the first place.

The only thing I can think of that would garnish such a remark is the comment about this specific case where she claims his discovery of her cheating led to abuse. Its a peculiar kind of go around. I guess that can be viewed in a blame the victim sort of way (?) He was the victim of her cheating and now shes blaming him for the bad behavior shes suffered as a result of of her cheating. Its interesting if nothing more.

Then there is the repeated casting of aspersions upon him and now "dear" sandranj for not answering something to your satisfaction. Manipulative people like to use false flattery like that while making an accusation, as if that removes their responsibility for making the accusation.

​Whoa now. False flattery? Who are you to know the level of sincerity of my feelings? In many of post through out the time Ive been on VJ Ive paid dear Sandra compliments and have meant every single one.

Sheesh - using the small print to draw even more attention to this repeated harassment is what we call "minimization", coupled with words like "just" and "only" - I am "just" asking this question incessantly to insinuate verysadguy is abusive and now sandranj as guilty of concealing something that if only known will prove verysadguy to be abusive.

?? Yes the question I so desperately want answered will show and prove v.sadguy to be abusive.dun dun dun. And that question for the millionth time- lest I be banned for harassment is "Did Sandra (or the prominent attny) advise you you would be on a blacklist or be barred from petitioning again once your ex wifes VAWA was adjucated? If so please provide the legal reference for the statement"

All of these manipulative tactics are outlined in books on abusive personality disorders.

Wow. So you believe I have an abusive personality disorder.

Ironically, they are the very things a TRUE VAWA claimant can use to demonstrate psychological abuse being perpetrated upon them. On an anonymous forum these abusive tactics are especially dangerous because it is the same setting a lynch mob exploits: nobody is going to be personally held liable for being one of the sharks who sees blood being spilled and joins in on the frenzy. Bullying scammer victims is common at VJ. If they dare say something about having the scammer sent home then a guaranteed result is someone saying how dare he view the (scammer) as a commodity. It is an unfair accusation, but it feels good to be the one pointing the finger and even better to be part of a mob tearing someone up.

Sharks in a frenzy? (looks around) Lynch mob?

Hmm. I see no one but me.

As for the manipulating tactics you say I use when questioning- well what can I say. In the courtroom Id get a gold star. Of course this isnt a courtroom and no one is on trial. I chose to ask some questions as its my right to do when you post your story on an open public forum as some details just did not logically add up for me. He chose to respond with no comment so thats that.

[TBoneTX 45,865]

[Moderator hat on]

Folks, please return to the OP's issue, rather than discuss each other. No more bickering.

[mohdirfan08787 16]

From personal experiance from my friend. Most likely what is going on is, She and her lover planning on make a good bussniess back home while she is working here. You know this, a person can stay hidden for decades unless he/she commits crime. You can live in US for rest of your life if you not get into trouble. There is no way she can turn her status to Green card cause accourding to you, Your case way stronger. DHS is not that free to find her and deport her back, there are thousands of cases similar to you are pending.

Most proberly she is working somewhere illegally, either in resturant, asian store, massage center or somewhere. The most popular one is HOME HEALTHCARE or nanny. Sueing will make your case even more stronger. But wouldent much help to you case where ever she is working, she is working on cash so no income record.

I am so sorry to hear your story. Hope the B get the karma, and enjoy your life with your baby.

Had a friend for many years.
Then she told me she loved me and wanted to be with me.
I went to her country many times to visit her.
Sent her money every month.
Hired an attorney and did all the paper work.
On my last trip she got pregnant.
I went back and did an official engagement with an expensive ring so she could avoid ridicule in her home country.
Her K-1 was approved.
She came to the USA.
From the very first day I could see something wrong.
I gave her a phone and a computer.
We got married right away.
She had a nice home, health insurance and lots of cash to live on while I worked.

Two weeks after she got here, I discovered she had a lover in her home country throughout the entire courtship and engagement and PREGNANCY.
They chatted every single day behind my back by IM, phone, webcam etc.
They exchanged naked photos.
She sent him pornographic pictures of herself while pregnant.
She had his bank account number.
She agreed to commit adultery with him when she went home to visit.
They told each other they loved each other forever.
I was heartbroken at first but realized it was all a lie.
I had to protect my assets, home and child from her.

I confronted her, no verbal or physical abuse, and she agreed to stop with him.
Our baby was born.
She sent pictures of the baby to her lover.
I did DNA test and the baby is mine.
She never stopped contacting her lover everyday for 6 months.
I discovered more pictures of her with her lover during our entire relationship.

So, I filed for divorce.
She never got her I-94 when she arrived through customs.
I did not renew her I-94.
Her I-485 was rejected for lack of I-94.

I sent letters to USCIS with a removal of support declaration.
I contacted ICE.
I sent in evidence.
I have NEVER been contacted by an investigator.
I did receive a letter that her paperwork was delayed or missing evidence.
I contacted my congressman.
I went to USCIS field office.
Field office told me I couldn't get any information due to privacy laws even though I SPONSORED HER.

I served divorce papers and made her leave the house.
She agreed to go back to her home country.
I bought a ticket and agreed to give her money and keep the expensive rings.
She skipped out of the airport.
She disappeared for months and could not be found.
I have the baby and won custody.
She didn't even call to check on our baby.

I found out she is trying to petition based on abuse.
I never abused her.
There are no police reports.
She has lied to ICE, lied to her non-profit, lied to her family.

She has now been in the USA 1 year.
She has an expired K-1 for 9 months.
She has no I-94.

So, why hasn't she gone through removal proceedings?
How can her friends and family assist, aid, and abet her as an illegal alien (out of status right)?
Can she really get AOS with all this against her?
The baby can't keep her here.
Any suggestions out there to help protect my baby and me?

[Villanelle 4,122]

please return to the OP's issue

*crickets* for over 24 hours now. Perhaps because the OPs issue - fiance cheating while pregnant- filed for vawa- got vawa. Now theres nothing more to say?

Dunno.

Well this could be on topic or off topic- you decide. But since v.sadguy has stated in this thread the need for VAWA reform I think it fits.

Many times it has been said that the VAWA process is broken, that scammers are too easily able to con the system, that harder restrictions need to be implemented. A more thorough vetting etc etc. And many times that has been rebuffed with the argument that US gov is not going to subject legitimate victims to additional scrutiny to weed out the scammers. That you simply can not put pressure on the group of applicants as a whole and see which ones crack and say oh okay youre telling the truth- sorry youre good and weed the bad ones out.

If anything that was proven over the last few pages and I would hope that some who have taken that stance have perhaps changed their minds.

The parallel is pretty striking.

In the role of the innocent victim is v.sadguy- making a claim to be a victim of a scam.(such as a vawa applicant would claim abuse) Supported by a reputable professional Sandra (as they are supported by Drs). He lays out his story in a 30 page forum post (affidavit).

Look at the outrage when a 3rd party (evil Damara) comes along and starts questioning his story in a hard way. (which is what you want done to VAWA applicants) Then Sandra is questioned and thats out of line but wait- you want the professionals challenged- or do you?

Things look different when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Darnell 8,479]

or you've some agenda to push.

Look - I say, leave off of slamming on VerySadGuy - there's other folk here you can slam on, other topics, aye?

Why? Just because !

[Villanelle 4,122]

Darnell- it is my understanding that 'slamming on' means to pelt somebody with insults or continuously put down. Do you have a different definition?

If you can show me in my last post where exactly I insulted or put down Vsadguy I will gladly make a handwritten apology and post it here. I personally dont believe there should be any slamming of anybody in any section of the forums and am put off by suggestion to do so.

I have no agenda to push... - believe it or not.

Simply offering an opposing viewpoint which I believe is still allowed on here (and how dull life would be if it wasnt) is not slamming.

But I do thank you and hear ya on your suggestion of 'lay off' just because.

Do you dare not speak the 'just because' out loud? Because nobody like the boat rocked. There its said. If thats putting words in your mouth then correct it.

[Darnell 8,479]

Let me try 'this' another way, ok ?

Hey ! Damara ! the OP has this topic, 3 years old topic now, and recently it seems that you want to dig in on stuff that's already been covered. I mean, come on - on a 3-year topic, don't you think he's gone through enough emotional turmoil, come out the other side of it, and doesn't need this type of comments?

I think so, really !

So, I do mention, on a 3-year-old thread, to show 'the other side' really isn't needed, and the manner in which you write about 'the other side' seems too acerbic for common conversation,

and

as such - I ask - can ya stop about it? Simply stop posting in this thread? Yes, I'm asking - just because !

Thanks so much, and Thanks in advance !

Edited March 8, 2015 by Darnell