Children flying international after Mom becomes citizen

[Imagination 15]

She can leave, but she would need a US Passport to come back in.

PS You only need to post it once.

Nope. She can reenter with her green card, if it hasn't expired, and if she hasn't given it up to claim citizenship by applying for US passport.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Green card holder children of US citizens are ELIGIBLE to apply for citizenship or claim citizenship. However, they NOT REQUIRED to become US Citizen. They are not breaking any law to travel on their foreign passport.

If this was true my friend wouldn't have got into trouble when her child (son of a USC) entered the US on the VWP. She wasn't aware it was a problem and mentioned applying for the passport while there visiting the child's father (child was born OS and she needed the father to complete the CRBA paperwork) and she got into some serious trouble. Because the child was around 4 months old they let him enter with her but told her he would not be permitted entry again without a passport.

So sorry but you're wrong. The child is a USC by virtue of his parent being a USC. The passport is proof of the citizenship but the citizenship ALREADY exists. There just isn't proof right now.

It's best the OP not break the law and get the child a passport.

[Imagination 15]

If this was true my friend wouldn't have got into trouble when her child (son of a USC) entered the US on the VWP. She wasn't aware it was a problem and mentioned applying for the passport while there visiting the child's father (child was born OS and she needed the father to complete the CRBA paperwork) and she got into some serious trouble. Because the child was around 4 months old they let him enter with her but told her he would not be permitted entry again without a passport.

So sorry but you're wrong. The child is a USC by virtue of his parent being a USC. The passport is proof of the citizenship but the citizenship ALREADY exists. There just isn't proof right now.

It's best the OP not break the law and get the child a passport.

Read what I wrote one more time. I said "GREEN CARD HOLDER children of US Citizen parents are eligible for citizenship".

Did the 4-month old have a green card? Did he have a foreign passport?

There is no breaking the law, if they travel on their foreign passport. And I know it for fact!

And I am sorry, you are wrong.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Imagination

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Read what I wrote one more time. I said "GREEN CARD HOLDER children of US Citizen parents are eligible for citizenship".

Did the 4-month old have a green card? Did he have a foreign passport?

There is no breaking the law, if they travel on their foreign passport. And I know it for fact!

And I am sorry, you are wrong.

You have a link for that "fact"?

Here is a link: http://www.fwcc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=296:why-your-foreign-born-adopted-child-should-have-proof-of-us-citizenship-how-to-get-this-proof-and-related-issues&catid=3&Itemid=11 though not legal please see qn 15.

Here is a link from USCIS that states the child is automatically a USC: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD this means the child must follow the law that states USC's need to leave and enter the US on a US passport.

Here is a link from the travel.state website: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html which states "Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."

I will also mention that children eligible for USC are not permitted visas to the US and instead must file for CRBA to get their passport.

So please show me links to your "fact". Getting away with breaking the law isn't "fact".

[Imagination 15]

You have a link for that "fact"?

Here is a link: http://www.fwcc.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=296:why-your-foreign-born-adopted-child-should-have-proof-of-us-citizenship-how-to-get-this-proof-and-related-issues&catid=3&Itemid=11 though not legal please see qn 15.

Here is a link from USCIS that states the child is automatically a USC: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d4c3a3ac86aa3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD this means the child must follow the law that states USC's need to leave and enter the US on a US passport.

Here is a link from the travel.state website: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html which states "Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."

I will also mention that children eligible for USC are not permitted visas to the US and instead must file for CRBA to get their passport.

So please show me links to your "fact". Getting away with breaking the law isn't "fact".

DO YOU READ??

From your own link "A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship."

OP's wife's daughter is a foreign national by birth. By becoming eligible for US citizenship, she did not lose her right to her foreign citizenship. Her foreign passport is still valid. She may use it to travel.

Again, do your reading before going out posting links that only prove you wrong!

Even in the other links, they recommend getting the documentation etc. in order to get the BENEFITS of being a US Citizen. It is a choice not a requirement!

Edited March 22, 2012 by Imagination

[Imagination 15]

Here is a link from the travel.state website: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html which states "Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States."

BTW, did you read the complete paragraph? It also states that "Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship."

[VanessaTony 3,567]

From your own link "A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship."

OP's wife's daughter is a foreign national by birth. By becoming eligible for US citizenship, she did not lose her right to her foreign citizenship. Her foreign passport is still valid. She may use it to travel.

Again, do your reading before going out posting links that only prove you wrong!

Even in the other links, they recommend getting the documentation etc. in order to get the BENEFITS of being a US Citizen. It is a choice not a requirement!

The section you claim disproves what I said doesn't disprove anything, you obviously just don't understand what you're reading... the question is, can this child leave and re-enter the US on her foreign passport even though her parent is now a USC (and therefore she is as well)? The answer is NO she cannot and requires a US passport. She will be fine leaving (even though it breaches US law her passport is of course still valid) but will most likely have issues re-entering.

In reference to the link you claims disproves this (above):

- Starting with your first bolded portion, you should note the first part is "A U.S Citizen may..." so this doesn't apply to the OP as this thread is in reference to a foreign national, not a USC. In either event to expand on that reference a USC doesn't lose USC by acquiring other nationalities.

- The second bolded portion tells us that a naturalised USC "may not" have to give up their foreign nationality by becoming a USC.. though honestly this is a "by country" issue. Some countries consider by acquiring USC you lose your home countries passport. So this is something each individual should check with their home country.

- The third bolded portion was in reference to dual citizenship by marriage and whether by acquiring USC they need to give up their foreign passport. They do not.

So, by your post I now understand that you are confused about what I (and others) are saying. Her foreign passport is still valid, this is true and no-one said that by becoming a USC (which she has by virtue of her parent) that she loses it (though it does depend on the home country). But she CANNOT leave and re-enter the US as an LPR when she IS NOT an LPR anymore. US law requires USC's (which she is) to leave and enter the US on their US passport. They can of course use their foreign passport to enter their home country, or travel anywhere else (for example if I was a USC and was travelling to the EU I would use my UK passport not a US passport as it is the better passport) but again, US law requires USC's to leave and enter the US on their US passport.

So as you said, she needs to get a US passport to enjoy the BENEFITS of being a USC.. which is re-entering the US without problems (there's probably something on her file stating she is now a USC and they won't let her enter on the card).

You understand now?

[VanessaTony 3,567]

BTW, did you read the complete paragraph? It also states that "Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship."

Yes. Please quote the ENTIRE paragraph rather than selecting sections that you believe bolster your position (but instead prove you still do not understand what you are reading):

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there. Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship. Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

So, when read IN CONTEXT the section you claim disproves what I have said in fact does not. Again, USC's MUST use US passports to leave and enter the US HOWEVER the US understands that dual nationals may be required by their home country to do the same thing (enter and leave their country with their country's passport). So they make sure you are aware that by using your foreign passport to travel to other countries you do not endanger your US citizenship status.. HOWEVER, again, USC's MUST leave and enter the US on their US passport but aside from that they don't care what passport you use and when.

So again an example. To travel to Australia the airlines will not let me board without a visa/passport. SO if I become a USC I will show my US passport when leaving but also show the airlines my Aussie passport to ensure they realise I am legal to travel to Australia.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Vanessa&Tony

[grrrrreat 109]

Does your daughter have a green card? She will not have any problem traveling with the foreign passport.

However, you don't have to apply for N-600 for your daughter in order to obtain US passport for her. You can simply go to state.travel.gov website and download the passport form. Complete that and send the mother's original Naturalization certificate along with daughter's birth certificate. The daughter will get her passport as well.

Her daughter can apply for N-600 at any point. (even after she is over 18). Look at N-600 instructions for more info. http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/n-600instr.pdf

This is false. U.S. citizens cannot travel to the U.S. without a U.S. passport. The Green Card won't work anymore, because the daughter is not an LPR but is a U.S. citizen.

[Imagination 15]

This is false. U.S. citizens cannot travel to the U.S. without a U.S. passport. The Green Card won't work anymore, because the daughter is not an LPR but is a U.S. citizen.

Would'nt they say something at POE if that was a problem? Because as far as I know, they didn't mention a thing to someone I know. Thus, I said they also might not have a problem. The scenario could be different with the person I'm talking about because he (also child) just became US citizen at the time they left country to travel (and therefore didn't have enough time to apply for passport). When they returned, he entered as usual, no questions asked.

In the OP's case, they still have a lot of time to obtain a US passport before their travel time, and therefor, I would also suggest they get US passport just like everyone else suggested.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

Imagination,

your ignorance of the law is so painful that I will not even respond in detail. It's like you want to explain to a cardiac surgeon how to measure the pulse.

Please do not give advice if you don't understand even the basics of the subject matter. I already forgot more about acquiring U.S. citizenship, multiple citizenship, loss of citizenship, and the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 than you will ever be able to comprehend.

[Boiler 45,982]

Harsh ish. But factually correct.

[grrrrreat 109]

Imagination,

your ignorance of the law is so painful that I will not even respond in detail. It's like you want to explain to a cardiac surgeon how to measure the pulse.

Please do not give advice if you don't understand even the basics of the subject matter. I already forgot more about acquiring U.S. citizenship, multiple citizenship, loss of citizenship, and the Child Citizenship Act of 2000 than you will ever be able to comprehend.

This is harsh. I'm new to the board and want to be helpful and can be based on my knowledge, but it's hard to want to stay with the lack of cordiality.

[grrrrreat 109]

Would'nt they say something at POE if that was a problem? Because as far as I know, they didn't mention a thing to someone I know. Thus, I said they also might not have a problem. The scenario could be different with the person I'm talking about because he (also child) just became US citizen at the time they left country to travel (and therefore didn't have enough time to apply for passport). When they returned, he entered as usual, no questions asked.

In the OP's case, they still have a lot of time to obtain a US passport before their travel time, and therefor, I would also suggest they get US passport just like everyone else suggested.

Not always. Just because the cop doesn't catch you stealing a cookie doesn't make it not stealing. The law says that US citizens must travel to the US with a US passport, so that's the end of story. Stop overthinking it.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Please try to be courteous when responding even if you are feeling frustrated.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I attended my citizenship oath there were a number of parents there with their minor children. The Director of USCIS Atlanta office led the ceremony. In her opening remarks she clearly stated that the children of those immigrants who were receiving their citizenship that day, and who had their own green cards would not be taking the oath, but they too were becoming US citizens through their parents. The parents were told they did not have to apply for citizenship for their children, but they were advised to apply for proof of their children's citizenship using form N600. They were told they could obtain that proof by using their own certificate and submitting it with a passport application for the child's passport and that would be their proof but did recommend that, at some time, the child also receive the N600 proof of citizenship.

It was very clear that these children were now US citizens in addition to what ever other citizenship they may also hold. While the US does not officially recognize US citizens as being citizens of other countries it also realizes that it has no control over how another country deals with its citizenship requirements, even if the individuals are also US citizens. So, while such children can leave the US using whatever citizenship proof they have available - and if they are returning to their country of birth and their original country allows them to hold dual citizenship then they can use their original passports to enter that country. To return to the US, however, you have to prove you have a legal right to enter the US. That means you either are from a Visa waiver country and enter with the foreign passport as a visitor; you enter with a visa for a specific reason (study, work, visit) or you enter with proof of either US residency (green card) if you are a US resident, or US citizenship (passport) if you are a US citizen. If you enter with a passport of another country then you will be challenged as to your right of admission to the US. If you are a citizen you will be severely chastised for failing to declare and prove that citizenship upon entry. The children are no longer permanent residents. Their greencards are technically no longer valid. They are US citizens and require proof of their citizenship,

A friend of mine from Canada deliberately held off getting her US citizenship because her teenage son did not want to become a US citizen. She waited until he was over 18 before she applied so that he did not automatically receive derivative citizenship.

So, the children of your naturalized US citizen wife are now also US citizens. You need to have proof of their citizenship if they wish to travel outside of the US - and return without running into a lot of hassles at the border.