People Who Piss Me Off: Libertarians

[james&olya 1,121]

I have seen drugs even at an early age cut in half the mental capacity of kids I went to school with and I have seen once decent women do unreal stuff for a hit on a crack pipe.... while the kids were home alone.

This utopia you speak of, where is now so that we might look and see what we have to look forward to?

HeII even Amsterdam is cutting back ...the place has turned to such a sewer.

What good has been accomplished by the billions we have spent on our 'war on drugs'? You would think that our experience with prohibition might have taught us something! Now we are going through a lot of the same consequences that occurred then and resulted in the repeal of that mis-guided attempt. Substance abuse has and will always be a problem. It was a problem long before laws were enacted to try and forcibly curtail the behavior and it will be a problem till long after we stop trying to criminalize the behavior. Right now it is a much bigger problem than it needs to be due to our poorly thought out response. Cutting the supply of something in great demand does what? I can't hear you! What was that? Raises price? Right. And raising the price has what effect on the person with product to sell? Right, his profits sky-rocket! And what does this do? Yeah, it attracts more people to make/sell the product. And when supplies are high what happens? Price falls and those sellers need to aggressively go after new customers. And they do this. Sometimes even in school-yards!

Not only does our 'war' actually increase the incentives to make/distribute/sell these drugs, it also leads to intense competition among those sellers! This competition uses all means available, including lethal weapons that often are used with innocents literally caught in the cross-fire. This is not really very complicated. And it happened this same way before when alcohol was prohibited. Sane and intelligent people should be able to realize there is a better way. Instead of spending billions arresting people and locking them away in expensive prisons, why not invest those billions working to uncover and treat the societal ills that lead to a demand for mind-numbing drugs in the first place and treat the unfortunate victims of this scourge. Without a war directed against the supply side of this problem, direct it against the demand! Without high profits available to the sellers there would be far less of the violence that now afflicts so many communities. The drug problem will never go away but it doesn't need to take down so many people as it does now!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

What good has been accomplished by the billions we have spent on our 'war on drugs'? You would think that our experience with prohibition might have taught us something! Now we are going through a lot of the same consequences that occurred then and resulted in the repeal of that mis-guided attempt. Substance abuse has and will always be a problem. It was a problem long before laws were enacted to try and forcibly curtail the behavior and it will be a problem till long after we stop trying to criminalize the behavior. Right now it is a much bigger problem than it needs to be due to our poorly thought out response. Cutting the supply of something in great demand does what? I can't hear you! What was that? Raises price? Right. And raising the price has what effect on the person with product to sell? Right, his profits sky-rocket! And what does this do? Yeah, it attracts more people to make/sell the product. And when supplies are high what happens? Price falls and those sellers need to aggressively go after new customers. And they do this. Sometimes even in school-yards!

Not only does our 'war' actually increase the incentives to make/distribute/sell these drugs, it also leads to intense competition among those sellers! This competition uses all means available, including lethal weapons that often are used with innocents literally caught in the cross-fire. This is not really very complicated. And it happened this same way before when alcohol was prohibited. Sane and intelligent people should be able to realize there is a better way. Instead of spending billions arresting people and locking them away in expensive prisons, why not invest those billions working to uncover and treat the societal ills that lead to a demand for mind-numbing drugs in the first place and treat the unfortunate victims of this scourge. Without a war directed against the supply side of this problem, direct it against the demand! Without high profits available to the sellers there would be far less of the violence that now afflicts so many communities. The drug problem will never go away but it doesn't need to take down so many people as it does now!

when Alla moved here one of the things she appreciated was that it actually was difficult for young people to get alcohol. Unlike Ukraine where the drinking age is universally ignored and 13 year olds wander around drunk. She has NOT been pleased with revelation that there is marijuana available closer to our house than beer and easier to get BECAUSE it is illegal. Illegal substances are uncontrolled. Your kids cannot buy beer at school but I assure you they can buy marijuana. So much for the war on drugs. And people who fight that war tell us "it would be worse" if not for them. Really? How? My son can buy marijuana in math class, how does it get worse? The war on drugs is a huge failure and a waste of our money, in the meantime we do nothing to help that woman doing...whatever...for crack cocaine and places that actually help people struggle to get a dime to function.

I would like to see marijuana legalized and other drugs decriminalized. Use the money we spend fighting them to treat people to get off them. De-fund the narco terrorists and drug dealers that lead to so much crime on our country.

The Libertarian approach is to lead people to individual responsibility, unless that is part of the plan, no, the goal of the plan, it is a waste of time. It is NOT the Libertarian goal for everyone to be a drug addict. The goal is for less people to use drugs.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[james&olya 1,121]

when Alla moved here one of the things she appreciated was that it actually was difficult for young people to get alcohol. Unlike Ukraine where the drinking age is universally ignored and 13 year olds wander around drunk. She has NOT been pleased with revelation that there is marijuana available closer to our house than beer and easier to get BECAUSE it is illegal. Illegal substances are uncontrolled. Your kids cannot buy beer at school but I assure you they can buy marijuana. So much for the war on drugs. And people who fight that war tell us "it would be worse" if not for them. Really? How? My son can buy marijuana in math class, how does it get worse? The war on drugs is a huge failure and a waste of our money, in the meantime we do nothing to help that woman doing...whatever...for crack cocaine and places that actually help people struggle to get a dime to function.

I would like to see marijuana legalized and other drugs decriminalized. Use the money we spend fighting them to treat people to get off them. De-fund the narco terrorists and drug dealers that lead to so much crime on our country.

The Libertarian approach is to lead people to individual responsibility, unless that is part of the plan, no, the goal of the plan, it is a waste of time. It is NOT the Libertarian goal for everyone to be a drug addict. The goal is for less people to use drugs.

A big part of the problem is our dumbed-down public discourse where everything is reduced to 'sound bites'! People have such short attention spans and are so intellectually lazy that they have one-size-fits-all responses. Things are all either good or bad. If it is bad then it must be made illegal. If it is good we need to increase it to the maximum possible. Problems solved, now we can get back to watching the Kardashians on some 'reality' show! It is almost impossible to get some of these people to understand that just because something is at first counter-intuitive, it may be right. I wish I knew the solution!

[Pooky 3,836]

A big part of the problem is our dumbed-down public discourse where everything is reduced to 'sound bites'! People have such short attention spans and are so intellectually lazy that they have one-size-fits-all responses. Things are all either good or bad. If it is bad then it must be made illegal. If it is good we need to increase it to the maximum possible. Problems solved, now we can get back to watching the Kardashians on some 'reality' show! It is almost impossible to get some of these people to understand that just because something is at first counter-intuitive, it may be right. I wish I knew the solution!

But that approach suits politicians on both sides of the aisle. Who wants to talk about the important issues of the day, when there are distractions such as Rush Limbaugh, Bill Maher, religious conscience crises, progressive guilt trips and 24/7 celebrity gossip to divert the great unwashed's attention?

[Danno 1,228]

What good has been accomplished by the billions we have spent on our 'war on drugs'? You would think that our experience with prohibition might have taught us something! Now we are going through a lot of the same consequences that occurred then and resulted in the repeal of that mis-guided attempt. Substance abuse has and will always be a problem. It was a problem long before laws were enacted to try and forcibly curtail the behavior and it will be a problem till long after we stop trying to criminalize the behavior. Right now it is a much bigger problem than it needs to be due to our poorly thought out response. Cutting the supply of something in great demand does what? I can't hear you! What was that? Raises price? Right. And raising the price has what effect on the person with product to sell? Right, his profits sky-rocket! And what does this do? Yeah, it attracts more people to make/sell the product. And when supplies are high what happens? Price falls and those sellers need to aggressively go after new customers. And they do this. Sometimes even in school-yards!

Not only does our 'war' actually increase the incentives to make/distribute/sell these drugs, it also leads to intense competition among those sellers! This competition uses all means available, including lethal weapons that often are used with innocents literally caught in the cross-fire. This is not really very complicated. And it happened this same way before when alcohol was prohibited. Sane and intelligent people should be able to realize there is a better way. Instead of spending billions arresting people and locking them away in expensive prisons, why not invest those billions working to uncover and treat the societal ills that lead to a demand for mind-numbing drugs in the first place and treat the unfortunate victims of this scourge. Without a war directed against the supply side of this problem, direct it against the demand! Without high profits available to the sellers there would be far less of the violence that now afflicts so many communities. The drug problem will never go away but it doesn't need to take down so many people as it does now!

What we ought do is let one State such as New york legalize drugs for a decade and see what the result would be.

The way we are doing it now, folks like you get to talk about how meaningless buying cocaine at the 7-11 would be, so lets roll out the trial run by alowing one state complete repeal of drug laws.

That will give you a sense of reality to base your theory on.

I have some people in the Denver area, I am told the number of pot shops is unreal and growing. Anyone live in one of those areas?

2.

[james&olya 1,121]

What we ought do is let one State such as New york legalize drugs for a decade and see what the result would be.

The way we are doing it now, folks like you get to talk about how meaningless buying cocaine at the 7-11 would be, so lets roll out the trial run by alowing one state complete repeal of drug laws.

That will give you a sense of reality to base your theory on.

I have some people in the Denver area, I am told the number of pot shops is unreal and growing. Anyone live in one of those areas?

2.

The problem with your approach is that there would still be the dynamic going on in 49 other states that would be creating addicts rather than treating them. Once addicted they would all want to move to that one state! For that reason such an approach could not work. That is probably a big part of Amsterdam's problem. We CAN compare to other countries that do not have the draconian drug laws we do here. Yes, drugs are still a problem in those countries but a smaller and much less costly problem than the one we currently have to deal with!

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Just remember that it's better to be pissed off than pissed on.

[Danno 1,228]

The problem with your approach is that there would still be the dynamic going on in 49 other states that would be creating addicts rather than treating them. Once addicted they would all want to move to that one state! For that reason such an approach could not work. That is probably a big part of Amsterdam's problem. We CAN compare to other countries that do not have the draconian drug laws we do here. Yes, drugs are still a problem in those countries but a smaller and much less costly problem than the one we currently have to deal with!

So in other words and policy of legalizing of drugs will have to wait until Canada and Mexico is on board because as you noted, the effects of the neighboring areas will

ruine the progress we would otherwise make.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

What we ought do is let one State such as New york legalize drugs for a decade and see what the result would be.

The way we are doing it now, folks like you get to talk about how meaningless buying cocaine at the 7-11 would be, so lets roll out the trial run by alowing one state complete repeal of drug laws.

That will give you a sense of reality to base your theory on.

I have some people in the Denver area, I am told the number of pot shops is unreal and growing. Anyone live in one of those areas?

2.

The number of places you can buy marijuana in Vermont is perhaps 3,456,876. And that is where it is illegal.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

A big part of the problem is our dumbed-down public discourse where everything is reduced to 'sound bites'! People have such short attention spans and are so intellectually lazy that they have one-size-fits-all responses. Things are all either good or bad. If it is bad then it must be made illegal. If it is good we need to increase it to the maximum possible. Problems solved, now we can get back to watching the Kardashians on some 'reality' show! It is almost impossible to get some of these people to understand that just because something is at first counter-intuitive, it may be right. I wish I knew the solution!

Exactly! And unfortuantely politicians get away with it because of mush-brained voters. Ban gay narriage and there are no gays! Make pot illegal and there is no pot! Cease welfare and poverty ends! Drug test welfare recipeints! And then waht? Cut off funding for their children?

The "solutions" folllow a pattern. They require no effort and no expense. Ban guns! Easy, cheap. Crime goes away, right? Wave a magic wand and the problem goes away, doesn;t cost anything and yeah, go back to watching "reality TV"

Suggest education or work experience, suggest a path to end the need for something and "No that is too expensive and will take too long"

There is no solution with the current political situation, which is why we need Libertarians more than anything else. A free country of 300 million people with TWO political parties in this day and age of the internet? Seriously? The problem we face, the real problem is that our choice for President is between Obama and (probably) Romney. Both will just continue to feed the beast. Nothing changes either way except some silly p or worse Santorum. They distract with periphreal issues. Birth control? Really? We are talking about birth control when we are $17 trillion in debt? 12 million illegal aliens are being exploited by US employers for profit and we wonder who will pay for some Georgetown student's condoms? 25% of our population, in the "richest country on earth", is on food stamps and we talk about extramarital affairs or think that gay marriage is an important issue?

It is all "bubblegum" as Alla says. "Here, chew on this while I ruin your life" "Watch the birdie" "Pay no attaention to the man behind the curtain" Or my favorite "The Soviets tried to wash my brain, it did not work, I still have a dirty mind"

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Have you any idea what percentage of food stamp recipients are in single headed house holds?

Do you have any idea what percentage of Americans are on the government dole in one way or another? Care to take a guess?

[Danno 1,228]

Do you have any idea what percentage of Americans are on the government dole in one way or another? Care to take a guess?

I mentioned *food stamps* you broaden it to an undefined "government dole".

I guess you have a point to make, I'm waiting.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I mentioned *food stamps* you broaden it to an undefined "government dole".

I guess you have a point to make, I'm waiting.

Being on the government dole means directly benefiting financially from a government program. Care to take a guess as to what percentage of Americans directly benefit from a government program?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[Danno 1,228]

Being on the government dole means directly benefiting financially from a government program. Care to take a guess as to what percentage of Americans directly benefit from a government program?

Your definition is so wide and broad as to even include a military retirement or pay check.

Refocus on the Food stamps and single headed house holds.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Your definition is so wide and broad as to even include a military retirement or pay check.

Refocus on the Food stamps and single headed house holds.

Paychecks aren't a government program. Tax exempt health care insurance benefits, home mortgage interest deduction, dependent care credits, EITC and the like is what I'm referring to. Those are government programs providing direct financial benefits. So, care to take a guess now?