South Dakota crime rate to drop further

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

South Dakota has become the 5th state to adopt permitless concealed carry for all residents over the age of 18. Following decreases in crime since the implementation of "shall issue" concealed carry permits, South Dakota joins four other states in allowing any law abiding adult to carry concealed handguns.

11 other states have similar proposals in the their legislatures this year. Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina and Virginia are in the process of eliminating the need for permits to carry concealed handguns

In the late 1980s and 1990s dozens of states changed to or implmented a "shall issue" system of concealed carry permits to eliminate the racial bias often associated with permits which require "justification" or stated reasons and to reduce crime by allowing law abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves. Each state experienced reduced crime and now can expect the reduced crime benefits of states which already have permitless concealed carry.

Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and South Dakpta have already followed the lead of Vermont and a flood of new bills is expected nationwide to implement the same type of crime fighting legislation. A federal District court for Maryland this week struck down that state's requirement for a person to provide a reason for the "need" to carry a concealed handgun as unconstitutional

In 2008 the Supreme Court ruled that owning and carrying firearms is an individual right and in 2010 ruled that this right applies to state and local laws as well as federal law. Following those rulings multiple challenges to laws such as Maryland's have been mounted and states are looking at ways to comply with the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

[Danno 1,228]

I chuckle when I recall the horror-story predictions made by the Left when the first states started permitting conceal carry.

Seriously, is the Left every right on any of these predictions? When I was a kid I thought for certain half the world would die of starvation, or the earth was cooling (now warming).

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I chuckle when I recall the horror-story predictions made by the Left when the first states started permitting conceal carry.

Seriously, is the Left every right on any of these predictions? When I was a kid I thought for certain half the world would die of starvation, or the earth was cooling (now warming).

We heard the same thing this last year when Wisconsin became the 42nd state to allow "shall issue" concealed carry. We still get the "blood will run in the streets" prediction as if it will happen in Wisconsin but no where else.

We will see a trickle of these states allowing permitless carry. 5 now. Another 3-4 this year, 3-4 next year, then a flood of states will approve it as it is seen that crime goes down. I would guess in another dozen years we may have every state that currenty issues the permits to have switched to permitless carry, another 2-3 will be forced to by court order. California is high on that list.

Everything is going along just fine, right to plan. Step by step.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Well, we could legalize drugs, burglary, rape, murder and whatnot and see crime rates drop immediately. After all, when these current offenses no longer go into a crime statistic, crime will naturally drop. Not that anyone would be better off for it but the stats sure will look nice. I mean, FL passed 'stand your ground' a few years back and when some ####### shot and killed a veteran in front of his 8 years old daughter and other kids on a community playground not too far from where I live for no reason other than the veteran standing up for the right of the kids to play on said playground, the ####### claimed his right to self-defense on the basis of 'stand your ground' and actually got off. There was no crime committed. And yet, a dedicated father who served this country honorably in our armed forces is dead, his daughter is traumatized for the rest of her life and the fcuking ####### that killed him walks the streets as if nothing happens. That's how crime rates drop. I'd rather the ####### spend the rest of his life behind bars and the crime stats looked less friendly. I'd certainly feel safer.

[Danno 1,228]

Well, we could legalize drugs, burglary, rape, murder and whatnot and see crime rates drop immediately. After all, when these current offenses no longer go into a crime statistic, crime will naturally drop. Not that anyone would be better off for it but the stats sure will look nice. I mean, FL passed 'stand your ground' a few years back and when some ####### shot and killed a veteran in front of his 8 years old daughter and other kids on a community playground not too far from where I live for no reason other than the veteran standing up for the right of the kids to play on said playground, the ####### claimed his right to self-defense on the basis of 'stand your ground' and actually got off. There was no crime committed. And yet, a dedicated father who served this country honorably in our armed forces is dead, his daughter is traumatized for the rest of her life and the fcuking ####### that killed him walks the streets as if nothing happens. That's how crime rates drop. I'd rather the ####### spend the rest of his life behind bars and the crime stats looked less friendly. I'd certainly feel safer.

Awwe you just don't like freedom, I hear ya.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well, we could legalize drugs, burglary, rape, murder and whatnot and see crime rates drop immediately. After all, when these current offenses no longer go into a crime statistic, crime will naturally drop. Not that anyone would be better off for it but the stats sure will look nice. I mean, FL passed 'stand your ground' a few years back and when some ####### shot and killed a veteran in front of his 8 years old daughter and other kids on a community playground not too far from where I live for no reason other than the veteran standing up for the right of the kids to play on said playground, the ####### claimed his right to self-defense on the basis of 'stand your ground' and actually got off. There was no crime committed. And yet, a dedicated father who served this country honorably in our armed forces is dead, his daughter is traumatized for the rest of her life and the fcuking ####### that killed him walks the streets as if nothing happens. That's how crime rates drop. I'd rather the ####### spend the rest of his life behind bars and the crime stats looked less friendly. I'd certainly feel safer.

Perhaps move to Illinois. You know, where they called out the national guard last spring to fight crime. No one is allowed to carry concealed there, you would love it. There are some great prices on homes on Chicago's west side. Try around 51st and the Dan Ryan.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The 'link' between concealed carry and lower crime rates remains specious as ever, but do carry on.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The 'link' between concealed carry and lower crime rates remains specious as ever, but do carry on.

And as ever you present no link to anything else.

Please carry on, you are losing. State after state is lining up to allow ANYONE over the age of 18 to carry concealed handguns. The reason to do this is to reduce crime. I would call that more than "specious" In the last year the number of states allowing anyone to carry firearms has increased 500%!!!! That is MILLIONS more people that are able to carry concealed. Millions more! And yet crime decreases! Specious? Seriously?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Well, we could legalize drugs, burglary, rape, murder and whatnot and see crime rates drop immediately. After all, when these current offenses no longer go into a crime statistic, crime will naturally drop. Not that anyone would be better off for it but the stats sure will look nice. I mean, FL passed 'stand your ground' a few years back and when some ####### shot and killed a veteran in front of his 8 years old daughter and other kids on a community playground not too far from where I live for no reason other than the veteran standing up for the right of the kids to play on said playground, the ####### claimed his right to self-defense on the basis of 'stand your ground' and actually got off. There was no crime committed. And yet, a dedicated father who served this country honorably in our armed forces is dead, his daughter is traumatized for the rest of her life and the fcuking ####### that killed him walks the streets as if nothing happens. That's how crime rates drop. I'd rather the ####### spend the rest of his life behind bars and the crime stats looked less friendly. I'd certainly feel safer.

I read a few articles on this. An eye witness said that the veteran saw the other person had a gun on him (not drawn) and then tried to disarm him. There was a struggle and it went off.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

And as ever you present no link to anything else.

Please carry on, you are losing. State after state is lining up to allow ANYONE over the age of 18 to carry concealed handguns. The reason to do this is to reduce crime. I would call that more than "specious" In the last year the number of states allowing anyone to carry firearms has increased 500%!!!! That is MILLIONS more people that are able to carry concealed. Millions more! And yet crime decreases! Specious? Seriously?

Your 'link' source is questionable, and since I am not pro-gun control I am not 'losing.' anyone or their loved ones harmed by the gun bought "for protection" is ultimately the loser.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I read a few articles on this. An eye witness said that the veteran saw the other person had a gun on him (not drawn) and then tried to disarm him. There was a struggle and it went off.

The victim tried to disarm the ####### after the ####### drew his gun. That's what witnesses testified to in court. They further testified that there was no aggression coming from the victim whatsoever. None. There's a cold blooded killer walking the streets, a man is dead, his daughter and another teenage bystander are traumatized and yet, it may turn out that no crime has been committed because of Florida's 'stand your ground' law. This is how crime rates drop. An addict shoots his dealer: stand your ground. A pimp snuffs out his hoe: stand your ground. The number of homicides ruled justfied and not prosecuted has tripled in this state since this law was passed. That naturally leaves a smaller number of criminal homicides - i.e. crime rates drop. It's just also true that no fewer people were homicide victims.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The victim tried to disarm the ####### after the ####### drew his gun. That's what witnesses testified to in court. They further testified that there was no aggression coming from the victim whatsoever. None. There's a cold blooded killer walking the streets, a man is dead, his daughter and another teenage bystander are traumatized and yet, it may turn out that no crime has been committed because of Florida's 'stand your ground' law. This is how crime rates drop. An addict shoots his dealer: stand your ground. A pimp snuffs out his hoe: stand your ground. The number of homicides ruled justfied and not prosecuted has tripled in this state since this law was passed. That naturally leaves a smaller number of criminal homicides - i.e. crime rates drop. It's just also true that no fewer people were homicide victims.

Not exactly the full story.

But the boy then heard a voice from across the street. It was Dooley, outside his garage, shouting that he should get off the court, that there was a no-skateboarding sign. The boy stopped.

He heard James call out to Dooley, "Show me the sign."

Michael Scott Whitt, practicing tennis serves nearby with his wife, Michelle, stopped to watch.

They testified that Dooley briefly went into his garage, then started across the street with a dark object sticking out of his waistband. They said James threw his hands up and said, "Oh, come on."

Dooley and James argued over letting the boy skate until Dooley lifted his shirt and said, "F--- you," the Whitts testified.

They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.

Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.

The gun fired.

"Mr. James looked up at us," Michelle Whitt testified. "He said, 'Call 911. I've been shot.' Then he fell over."

He was shot through the heart. A medical examiner said he probably died within seconds.

Michael Whitt called 911 at the same time the boy did. On his call, Whitt cried out, "Oh my God. All this over a skateboard."

He clearly was acting aggressive, you are correct. He shouldn't have pulled his shirt/coat whatever to show the firearm, but....and this is a big but. He was leaving the scene, and was chased.

Both men made poor decisions, but I would hardly call it cold blooded murder.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

South Dakota has become the 5th state to adopt permitless concealed carry for all residents over the age of 18. Following decreases in crime since the implementation of "shall issue" concealed carry permits, South Dakota joins four other states in allowing any law abiding adult to carry concealed handguns.

11 other states have similar proposals in the their legislatures this year. Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina and Virginia are in the process of eliminating the need for permits to carry concealed handguns

In the late 1980s and 1990s dozens of states changed to or implmented a "shall issue" system of concealed carry permits to eliminate the racial bias often associated with permits which require "justification" or stated reasons and to reduce crime by allowing law abiding citizens the ability to protect themselves. Each state experienced reduced crime and now can expect the reduced crime benefits of states which already have permitless concealed carry.

Alaska, Arizona, Wyoming and South Dakpta have already followed the lead of Vermont and a flood of new bills is expected nationwide to implement the same type of crime fighting legislation. A federal District court for Maryland this week struck down that state's requirement for a person to provide a reason for the "need" to carry a concealed handgun as unconstitutional

In 2008 the Supreme Court ruled that owning and carrying firearms is an individual right and in 2010 ruled that this right applies to state and local laws as well as federal law. Following those rulings multiple challenges to laws such as Maryland's have been mounted and states are looking at ways to comply with the constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

:thumbs: :thumbs:

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Not exactly the full story.

But the boy then heard a voice from across the street. It was Dooley, outside his garage, shouting that he should get off the court, that there was a no-skateboarding sign. The boy stopped.

He heard James call out to Dooley, "Show me the sign."

Michael Scott Whitt, practicing tennis serves nearby with his wife, Michelle, stopped to watch.

They testified that Dooley briefly went into his garage, then started across the street with a dark object sticking out of his waistband. They said James threw his hands up and said, "Oh, come on."

Dooley and James argued over letting the boy skate until Dooley lifted his shirt and said, "F--- you," the Whitts testified.

They said Dooley turned and started home, but James caught up with him. "Mr. James said, 'Don't flash a weapon,' something like that," Michelle Whitt testified.

Then, she said, Dooley pulled out the gun and James grabbed his hand. The men struggled, they fell to the ground, and James ended up on his knees as Dooley lay on his side. They still wrestled for the gun.

The gun fired.

"Mr. James looked up at us," Michelle Whitt testified. "He said, 'Call 911. I've been shot.' Then he fell over."

He was shot through the heart. A medical examiner said he probably died within seconds.

Michael Whitt called 911 at the same time the boy did. On his call, Whitt cried out, "Oh my God. All this over a skateboard."

He clearly was acting aggressive, you are correct. He shouldn't have pulled his shirt/coat whatever to show the firearm, but....and this is a big but. He was leaving the scene, and was chased.

Both men made poor decisions, but I would hardly call it cold blooded murder.

Self defense, it isn't. Justified homicide it isn't. And yet, that's what we're likely looking at. ####### Dooley will walk despite having killed a man for no good reason whatsoever. It's happening all over the place in Florida ever since stand your ground was passed. Three times as many people that are killed now have their killers walk the street like nothing ever happened. Only, they're dead. Lower crime rates? Yes. Fewer people killed? No. Safer place to live? Not even close.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Self defense, it isn't. Justified homicide it isn't. And yet, that's what we're likely looking at. ####### Dooley will walk despite having killed a man for no good reason whatsoever. It's happening all over the place in Florida ever since stand your ground was passed. Three times as many people that are killed now have their killers walk the street like nothing ever happened. Only, they're dead. Lower crime rates? Yes. Fewer people killed? No. Safer place to live? Not even close.

It sounded like an accidental discharge by all accounts. Are there any stats to show a higher death rate?