Poverty Line Requirement

[L+T 71]

Time to go try out one of my drinking songs and ignore someone.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html

No visa or other documentation shall be issued to an alien if (1) it appears to the consular officer, from statements in the application, or in the papers submitted therewith, that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law, (2) the application fails to comply with the provisions of this Act, or the regulations issued thereunder, or (3) the consular officer knows or has reason to believe that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law: Provided, That a visa or other documentation may be issued to an alien who is within the purview of section 212(a)(4), if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa or other documentation, upon receipt of notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond or undertaking providing indemnity as in the case of aliens admitted under section 213: Provided further, That a visa may be issued to an alien defined in section 101(a)(15) (B) or , if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa, upon receipt of a notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond with sufficient surety in such sum and containing such conditions as the consular officer shall prescribe, to insure that at the expiration of the time for which such alien has been admitted by the Attorney General, as provided in section 214(a), or upon failure to maintain the status under which he was admitted, or to maintain any status subsequently acquired under section 248 of the Act, such alien will depart from the United States.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Thomas70

[Hank_ 9,174]

So go do that... have a nice day...

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Oh, this again. Didn't we just go around and around in another thread like this a couple months ago or less?

I-134 instructions are what they are. The I-134 is also used for non-immigrants that will not be adjusting status and staying in the US permanently. The I-134 is not even a legally binding contract. The consulates know all this. That is why they use the guidelines for the I-864 when dealing with K-1 visa applicants, even if they are using the I-134 to prove sponsorship. They will want to see 125% or better, unless you are in the military. It is misleading to tell those looking to get a K-1 visa for their fiance(e) to only worry about having 100%. It will be a real let down of a shocker when they are denied for not being able to prove their sweetie won't become a public charge.

Have 125% or more of the poverty level, or get a co-sponsor lined up. This is your best bet for having your financials approved at the K-1 interview.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/ineligibilities/ineligibilities_1364.html

No visa or other documentation shall be issued to an alien if (1) it appears to the consular officer, from statements in the application, or in the papers submitted therewith, that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law, (2) the application fails to comply with the provisions of this Act, or the regulations issued thereunder, or (3) the consular officer knows or has reason to believe that such alien is ineligible to receive a visa or such other documentation under section 212, or any other provision of law: Provided, That a visa or other documentation may be issued to an alien who is within the purview of section 212(a)(4), if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa or other documentation, upon receipt of notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond or undertaking providing indemnity as in the case of aliens admitted under section 213: Provided further, That a visa may be issued to an alien defined in section 101(a)(15) (B) or , if such alien is otherwise entitled to receive a visa, upon receipt of a notice by the consular officer from the Attorney General of the giving of a bond with sufficient surety in such sum and containing such conditions as the consular officer shall prescribe, to insure that at the expiration of the time for which such alien has been admitted by the Attorney General, as provided in section 214(a), or upon failure to maintain the status under which he was admitted, or to maintain any status subsequently acquired under section 248 of the Act, such alien will depart from the United States.

INA section 213:

Sec. 213. [8 U.S.C. 1183] An alien inadmissible under paragraph (4) of section 212(a) may, if otherwise admissible, be admitted in the discretion of the Attorney General

(subject to the affidavit of support requirement and attribution of sponsor's income and resources under section 213A)

1/ upon the giving of a suitable and proper bond or undertaking approved by the Attorney General, in such amount and containing such conditions as he may prescribe, to the United States, and to all States, territories, counties, towns, municipalities, and districts thereof holding the United States and all States, territories, counties, towns, municipalities, and districts thereof harmless against such alien becoming a public charge. Such bond or undertaking shall terminate upon the permanent departur e from the United States, the naturalization, or the death of such alien, and any sums or other security held to secure performance thereof, except to the extent forfeited for violation of the terms thereof, shall be returned to the person by whom furnished, or to his legal representatives. Suit may be brought thereon in the name and by the proper law officers of the United States for the use of the United States, or of any State, territory, district, county, town, or municipality in which such ali en becomes a public charge, irrespective of whether a demand for payment of public expenses has been made.

The posting of a bond doesn't waive the affidavit of support requirements for those immigrants who need one. A bond is simply a means by which an alien who has been found inadmissible because of the "public charge" requirement might be able to overcome that inadmissibility by posting a bond, at the discretion of DHS. However, if the alien is required under section 213A to have a sponsor submit a sufficient affidavit of support then that requirement still applies. A bond can't be used to overcome an insufficient affidavit of support.

[L+T 71]

INA section 213:

Sec. 213. [8 U.S.C. 1183] An alien inadmissible under paragraph (4) of section 212(a) may, if otherwise admissible, be admitted in the discretion of the Attorney General

(subject to the affidavit of support requirement and attribution of sponsor's income and resources under section 213A)

1/ upon the giving of a suitable and proper bond or undertaking approved by the Attorney General, in such amount and containing such conditions as he may prescribe, to the United States, and to all States, territories, counties, towns, municipalities, and districts thereof holding the United States and all States, territories, counties, towns, municipalities, and districts thereof harmless against such alien becoming a public charge. Such bond or undertaking shall terminate upon the permanent departur e from the United States, the naturalization, or the death of such alien, and any sums or other security held to secure performance thereof, except to the extent forfeited for violation of the terms thereof, shall be returned to the person by whom furnished, or to his legal representatives. Suit may be brought thereon in the name and by the proper law officers of the United States for the use of the United States, or of any State, territory, district, county, town, or municipality in which such ali en becomes a public charge, irrespective of whether a demand for payment of public expenses has been made.

The posting of a bond doesn't waive the affidavit of support requirements for those immigrants who need one. A bond is simply a means by which an alien who has been found inadmissible because of the "public charge" requirement might be able to overcome that inadmissibility by posting a bond, at the discretion of DHS. However, if the alien is required under section 213A to have a sponsor submit a sufficient affidavit of support then that requirement still applies. A bond can't be used to overcome an insufficient affidavit of support.

Yes it does, you reference wrong section, 213A is not used in Fiancee process.

If inadmissable on only this provision (i-134), and otherwise admissable, the foreign fiancee CAN post a bond in the size agreed by consulate OR other undertaking. The i-134 instructions clearly state this is done in conjunction with section 213, and specifically notes NOT 213A. Upon marriage, the 864 is required in which the combined assets (as opposed to i-134 and foreign bond) are used to consider support for the family, where in this case using 213A (the bond is returned and assets and income of foreign fiancee added to 864).

The foreign fiancee CAN contribute financially, (or by other undertaking) in both making up for the petitioners lack of 134 requirements, and then in the 864 process via providing assets and income. Yes, you all say the consulate is looking past 134 to 864, this is a potential path, and many have been advised otherwise in these forums.

[L+T 71]

Oh, this again. Didn't we just go around and around in another thread like this a couple months ago or less?

I-134 instructions are what they are. The I-134 is also used for non-immigrants that will not be adjusting status and staying in the US permanently. The I-134 is not even a legally binding contract. The consulates know all this. That is why they use the guidelines for the I-864 when dealing with K-1 visa applicants, even if they are using the I-134 to prove sponsorship. They will want to see 125% or better, unless you are in the military. It is misleading to tell those looking to get a K-1 visa for their fiance(e) to only worry about having 100%. It will be a real let down of a shocker when they are denied for not being able to prove their sweetie won't become a public charge.

Have 125% or more of the poverty level, or get a co-sponsor lined up. This is your best bet for having your financials approved at the K-1 interview.

Dude, all i'm saying is the fiancee can help financially as well, if needed. Others have been ill advised to the contrary in these VJ forums. There may be a best way which works for you, but maybe not for others. I have seen people say the fiancee must send the money first and add to petitioner bank account, or that it doesn't matter who or what the fiancee is even if they can help. This advise is not very helpful like to the French fiancee, who has $30,000, and others are saying this does not mean anything... Yes it does, they can post a bond if 134 is not sufficiaent... then add assets and income at 864.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Yes it does, you reference wrong section, 213A is not used in Fiancee process.

If inadmissable on only this provision (i-134), and otherwise admissable, the foreign fiancee CAN post a bond in the size agreed by consulate OR other undertaking. The i-134 instructions clearly state this is done in conjunction with section 213, and specifically notes NOT 213A. Upon marriage, the 864 is required in which the combined assets (as opposed to i-134 and foreign bond) are used to consider support for the family, where in this case using 213A (the bond is returned and assets and income of foreign fiancee added to 864).

The foreign fiancee CAN contribute financially, (or by other undertaking) in both making up for the petitioners lack of 134 requirements, and then in the 864 process via providing assets and income. Yes, you all say the consulate is looking past 134 to 864, this is a potential path, and many have been advised otherwise in these forums.

You're correct. INA 213A doesn't apply in non-immigrant visa cases. By the same token, there is no section of the INA that specifically requires an affidavit of support of any kind in a non-immigrant visa case, nor any section of the INA that specifically compels DHS to accept a bond in lieu of a sufficient affidavit of support in any case.

The I-134 instructions were written by INS, and subsequently maintained by USCIS, which rarely ever uses the I-134 anymore. The I-134 is used by consulates at their own discretion, and at the suggestion of the Foreign Affairs Manual. There's no statutory requirement that a consulate collect an I-134, nor any statutory requirement that they accept a bond request, either with an I-134 or in lieu of one, and forward it to DHS. Your suggestion is that the beneficiary can compel the consulate to comply with a statute that doesn't exist based on form instructions that they didn't write and don't use.

I've read countless cases on VJ where people have run into problems with the public charge requirement at the consulate with a K1 visa. I've never heard of anyone successfully overcoming an insufficient affidavit of support by posting a bond - not once. I've never even heard of anyone successfully getting the consulate to forward a bond request to DHS in one of these cases. The closest thing I've ever heard of is a few consulates that will consider the beneficiary's assets if the petitioner can't submit a sufficient affidavit of support because they believe the beneficiary will be able to use those assets to help the petitioner qualify with an I-864 after they're married. The embassy in London has been known to do this. Many other consulates have refused to do this. I think this approach has a better chance of success because the consulate is required to consider the beneficiary's assets under INA 212(a)(4), but they aren't required to accept a bond request, nor do they have the authority to consider and approve one - they have to forward the request to DHS for approval. It would be highly unusual for a consulate to hand their discretionary authority to make the public charge determination over to DHS like that.

[L+T 71]

You're correct. INA 213A doesn't apply in non-immigrant visa cases. By the same token, there is no section of the INA that specifically requires an affidavit of support of any kind in a non-immigrant visa case, nor any section of the INA that specifically compels DHS to accept a bond in lieu of a sufficient affidavit of support in any case.

The I-134 instructions were written by INS, and subsequently maintained by USCIS, which rarely ever uses the I-134 anymore. The I-134 is used by consulates at their own discretion, and at the suggestion of the Foreign Affairs Manual. There's no statutory requirement that a consulate collect an I-134, nor any statutory requirement that they accept a bond request, either with an I-134 or in lieu of one, and forward it to DHS. Your suggestion is that the beneficiary can compel the consulate to comply with a statute that doesn't exist based on form instructions that they didn't write and don't use.

I've read countless cases on VJ where people have run into problems with the public charge requirement at the consulate with a K1 visa. I've never heard of anyone successfully overcoming an insufficient affidavit of support by posting a bond - not once. I've never even heard of anyone successfully getting the consulate to forward a bond request to DHS in one of these cases. The closest thing I've ever heard of is a few consulates that will consider the beneficiary's assets if the petitioner can't submit a sufficient affidavit of support because they believe the beneficiary will be able to use those assets to help the petitioner qualify with an I-864 after they're married. The embassy in London has been known to do this. Many other consulates have refused to do this. I think this approach has a better chance of success because the consulate is required to consider the beneficiary's assets under INA 212(a)(4), but they aren't required to accept a bond request, nor do they have the authority to consider and approve one - they have to forward the request to DHS for approval. It would be highly unusual for a consulate to hand their discretionary authority to make the public charge determination over to DHS like that.

I never suggested the petitioner force the consulate to require a 134 and thus a bond. If they do require the 134, as they usually do, per instructions, the foreign fiancee can participate via showing them the money (if need be) as you agree. I also agree it is up to CO to approve this alone, or to send off and require the bond, they give up no control and can do it either way. This is not country specific. You said before you know people denied at 100%... Was this because the foreign fiancee brought $100,000 in savings, but the consulate denied anyway, or did the foreign fiancee have nothing to offer?

[Hank_ 9,174]

- the petitioner forcing the consulate to do something.... yup I would like to buy tickets to that event. End result CO stamps DENIED on the visa application....

[Fight for Love 98]

I received the following information from my consulate. Hope this helps you:

2012 Poverty Guidelines for 48 Contiguous States and the

District of Columbia:

Persons in Family/ Poverty 125% of Poverty

Household Guidelines Guidelines

2 $15,130 $18,912

3 19,090 23,862

4 23,050 28,812

5 27,010 33,762

6 30,970 38,712

7 34,930 43,662

8 38,890 48,612

For families/households with more than 8 persons, add

$3,960 for each additional person; $4,950 to meet 125% of the

poverty guidelines.

2012 Poverty Guidelines for Alaska:

2 $18,920 $23,650

3 23,870 29,837

4 28,820 36,025

5 33,770 42,212

6 38,720 48,400

7 43,670 54,587

8 48,620 60,775

For families/households with more 8 persons, add $4,950 for

each additional person; $6,187 to meet 125% of the poverty

guidelines.

2012 Poverty Guidelines for Hawaii:

2 $17,410 $21,762

3 21,960 27,450

4 26,510 33,137

5 31,060 38,825

6 35,610 44,512

7 40,160 50,200

8 44,710 55,887

For families/household with more than 8 members, add $4,550

for each additional person; $5,687 to meet 125% of the poverty guidelines.

The same information is attached in a neater/better format.

J&N

woooo this exactly i was looking for..this finally answer my question..ahhaha thanks poster

[Hank_ 9,174]

woooo this exactly i was looking for..this finally answer my question..ahhaha thanks poster

Here is a link to the actual form so you can download it to your computer.

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-864p.pdf

[Kob 0]

What is considered as 'income' for I-134?

Is it "Total Income" or "adjusted gross income" which can be much less

Can anyone provide some links/reference please