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Posted

Also, not that I have any dog in this fight, but I looked it up with the EEOC and confirmed what I said above: it is not illegal per se to ask any question at the interview, it is merely inadvisable because a court could easily construe the mere fact that the question was asked as evidence that hiring decisions themselves are based upon prohibited categories. As per the EEOC:

Although state and federal equal opportunity laws do not clearly forbid employers from making pre-employment inquiries that relate to, or disproportionately screen out members based on race, color, sex, national origin, religion, or age, such inquiries may be used as evidence of an employer's intent to discriminate unless the questions asked can be justified by some business purpose.

Again, I'm not disagreeing that it is supremely stupid to be asking these questions, I'm just disagreeing that they are illegal on their face.

Do you consider a violation of a civil right to be an illegal act?

Our journey together on this earth has come to an end.

I will see you one day again, my love.

Filed: Lift. Cond. (pnd) Country: Peru
Timeline
Posted

Do you consider a violation of a civil right to be an illegal act?

Of course violating the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, laws which, I might add, "do not clearly forbid employers from making pre-employment inquiries that relate to, or disproportionately screen out members based on race, color, sex, national origin, religion, or age," is violating the law. Why would you even ask that?

Filed: Lift. Cond. (pnd) Country: Peru
Timeline
Posted

Again, there is a tremendous different between "you should" and "you shall." I am sure that we both agree that as an employer, you should refrain from asking questions that could get the prospective employee to identify his nationality. The reason for this is that by refraining for asking those questions, you ensure that, in any future lawsuit, whether it be a frivolous one or not, you will have deprived opposing council of the ammunition he or she needs to make you look like a schmuck in court. If you're being sued for discriminating against someone due to his national origin, there is no better defense than to say "I don't even know what his national origin is, so how could I have discriminated against him for it?" Thus, it is prudent to avoid asking such questions. And although I haven't read that thing you just posted about EEOC best practices, I have no doubt that they consider avoiding such questions to be a best practice, something you should do. However, there is no law that says that you "shall" refrain from asking them. If you want to make yourself look like an idiot and hand over the best advantage you have in court to the guy who is trying to sue you, that's your prerogative. You'd be stupid to do so, though. Which is why most smart employers do not ask things like "are you a foreign national?" or say "I need to see your green card before I even offer you this job." Employers do, however, say things like "Are you authorized to work in the US," "If offered do you think you'll take this job" or "You should know that you will be required to prove your authorization to work the moment we hire you" all the time. I'd be willing to bet that the last phrase is considered a best practice since it's not even phrased as a question.

Posted (edited)

Mike - As long as employers ask everyone, there is no violation.

Most employers ask the question on a job application. If everyone has to fill out a job app to be hired, then everyone has been asked. MIBEN illustrated above that all individuals called in for an interview were informed they must be legally authorized to work to accept employment.

So questions that are asked of ALL applicants are fine.

The question then should not come up again until the new hire is asked to complete an I-9.

These specific scenarios are not codified. The law rarely lays out each bit of minutia required to violate it. In this case, employers are guided by the I-9 and it clearly declares WHEN the question should be posed specifically to an individual.

I am now out of here on this thread and topic, as it's Sunday night and I've little time to be here during the week. I would offer this though to all of us who have traversed this process, either personally or by the side of a loved one. After all the bowing and scraping we do before USCIS and the State Department, just in order to have a normal married life, there should be nothing else society expects of us. We travel that path in order to have a normal everyday life in America. Part of normal everyday life is working. You (or your spouse) should never have questions asked of you at work because you are accented or have an ethnic appearance. You have already stepped through all the hoops of legality. The I-9 levels the playing field for natural born and foreign born. It tells employers that nothing extra is needed from an accented or ethnic person just because they look or sound different.

I would say that is a good thing. Partly because I want that normal life for myself and my husband. He is already here and legal. He has the same documents a natural born US citizen has. To those who would (and have) questioned him, I say - deal with it. We don't have to earn our daily bread amongst those who would look at us through a narrow lens.

Edited by Rebecca Jo

Our journey together on this earth has come to an end.

I will see you one day again, my love.

Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Netherlands
Timeline
Posted (edited)

People have been focusing on the blatantly illegal questions, so I figured I'd go back and look at the more dubious ones:

Hey Guys,

I'm still so upset after leaving this interview which took place 2 days ago. This was the most intrusive interview I've ever been to and I almost walked out! I had 3 different phone interview and was then invited for a one on one after the third phone interview. Here are some of the questions that were asked:

1. Where have you been applying for jobs? (I had to give websites)

2. What companies have you applied to? Please list all the companies and the positions applied for.

3. Have you been called for an interview? (my answer was no)

4. Why do you think you're not being called?

5. What key words do you use to search for jobs?

These sound unreasonable. You're interviewing for a job with them, where else you are applying doesn't matter. I would flat out decline to answer. Question five sounds like they are doing market research!

6. Have you thought of applying for jobs below supervisory and management? (My answer was yes, I have)

7. And still no interview? (Her response was, "that's odd")

6) is maybe ok, 7) is just being annoying.

9. What did you do after that?

10. Where did you do your internships?

These two look like the only decent questions here.

Were they paid? How much?

This is just asking for them to justify not paying you as much as they should. What you were paid before has no bearing on your new job, especially if your new job has different responsibilities. And especially if they were internships! Do a websearch on how to do salary negotiations.

Edited by Ippsy Pippsy
Filed: Lift. Cond. (pnd) Country: Peru
Timeline
Posted

Funny that this has been topped again. In the meantime my wife asked a restaurant if they have any kitchen jobs available (she's a great cook). They told her "we're only hiring dishwashers right now, and we wouldn't consider you for that because obviously we'd never give a man's job to a woman." Apart from being illegal, it's almost comical: I'm sure that there are millions of women out there who'd be delighted to hear that washing dishes is a "man's job."

Posted

6) is maybe ok, 7) is just being annoying.

These two look like the only decent questions here.

This is just asking for them to justify not paying you as much as they should. What you were paid before has no bearing on your new job, especially if your new job has different responsibilities. And especially if they were internships! Do a websearch on how to do salary negotiations.

Annoying is an understatement. She also asked how much I got paid at my last job. This puzzled me because my last job was in my home country. This was a good paying job in my opinion, but when converted to US$, it would amount it no more than $500/month(not realistic here). I was just surprised she would ask this because the cost of living is totally different here in comparison to where I'm from. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she was just ignorant of that fact.

AOS TIMELINE
05.03.11 - Got Married

05.05.11 - Filed I-485, I-130 and I-765
06.08.11 - Biometric Done
07.27.11 - Mailed RFE to Lee's Summit MO(Express)
08.04.11 - EAD CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED!!! YAY!!!
08.12.11 - EAD IN HAND!!! WOOHOO!!
09.16.11 - INTERVIEW(No Decision on Spot, IO wrote in Passport"CR6 A# I-485 pending IO (name) USCIS LNY Section 245"
10.26.11 - Stokes Interview at 26 Federal Plaza
10.27.11 - APPROVED!!! WOOHOO!! WHAT A JOURNEY!!
11.01.11 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED
11.04.11 - GREEN CARD IN HAND

ROC TIMELINE

08.01.13 - Mailed ROC Packet to VSC

08.14.13 - Biometric Appointment Letter Received

09.03.13 - Biometric Completed

09.17.13 - Case Transferred to CSC

11.01.13 - CSC Transferred Case to Local Office to Schedule Interview

12.31.13 - Received Appointment Notice from Local Office (Long Island City). Interview on 01.16.14

01.16.14 - I-751 Interview

01.16.14 - Approved on Spot!! :-) Passport Stamped!

01.30.14 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED

N400 TIMELINE

07.29.14 - Mailed N400 Packet to TX

08.05.14 - Case Received (Text message)

08.09.14 - Received I-797C

08.16.14 - Received Biometric Appointment Letter

08.29.14 - Biometric Appointment

02.17.15 - Interview - APPROVED

02.26.15 - Naturalization Ceremony

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Canada
Timeline
Posted

Funny that this has been topped again. In the meantime my wife asked a restaurant if they have any kitchen jobs available (she's a great cook). They told her "we're only hiring dishwashers right now, and we wouldn't consider you for that because obviously we'd never give a man's job to a woman." Apart from being illegal, it's almost comical: I'm sure that there are millions of women out there who'd be delighted to hear that washing dishes is a "man's job."

LOL are you serious?! I'm a female - not a very big one either - and I worked a dishpit for a year in college...It's not THAT hard, but hey - if they don't want to make women wash MORE dishes, then hooray! :dance::dance:

USCIS (192 days, August 24 2011 to March 2 2012. No RFE's).
NVC (30 days, March 12 to April 11. Case expedited due to NVC errors).

Montreal US Consulate, awaiting interview date (14 days, April 12 to April 26).

05/09/2012 - medical in Toronto - passed!
05/22/2012 - interview - passed!
05/25/2012 - visa in hand!!! biggrin.png
06/09/2012 - POE @ YWG (Winnipeg Int'l Airport)

Removal of Conditions submitted March 24, 2014, received March 26, 2014

"RFE" for page 3 of application received, date March 27, 2014. Package re-submitted with all papers re-attached.

04/07/2014 - NOA1 Date

05/07/2014 - Biometrics in Charlotte, NC

11/05/2014 - APPROVED! Citizenship in 5 months!

11/10/2014 - NOA2 in hand.

11/20/2014 - 10 yr GC in hand! :D

Posted

Funny that this has been topped again. In the meantime my wife asked a restaurant if they have any kitchen jobs available (she's a great cook). They told her "we're only hiring dishwashers right now, and we wouldn't consider you for that because obviously we'd never give a man's job to a woman." Apart from being illegal, it's almost comical: I'm sure that there are millions of women out there who'd be delighted to hear that washing dishes is a "man's job."

Illegal and funny at the same time...interesting :wow:

On a lighter note: "I'm sure that there are millions of women out there who'd be delighted to hear that washing dishes is a "man's job." Definitely going to inform my husband of this :yes:

AOS TIMELINE
05.03.11 - Got Married

05.05.11 - Filed I-485, I-130 and I-765
06.08.11 - Biometric Done
07.27.11 - Mailed RFE to Lee's Summit MO(Express)
08.04.11 - EAD CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED!!! YAY!!!
08.12.11 - EAD IN HAND!!! WOOHOO!!
09.16.11 - INTERVIEW(No Decision on Spot, IO wrote in Passport"CR6 A# I-485 pending IO (name) USCIS LNY Section 245"
10.26.11 - Stokes Interview at 26 Federal Plaza
10.27.11 - APPROVED!!! WOOHOO!! WHAT A JOURNEY!!
11.01.11 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED
11.04.11 - GREEN CARD IN HAND

ROC TIMELINE

08.01.13 - Mailed ROC Packet to VSC

08.14.13 - Biometric Appointment Letter Received

09.03.13 - Biometric Completed

09.17.13 - Case Transferred to CSC

11.01.13 - CSC Transferred Case to Local Office to Schedule Interview

12.31.13 - Received Appointment Notice from Local Office (Long Island City). Interview on 01.16.14

01.16.14 - I-751 Interview

01.16.14 - Approved on Spot!! :-) Passport Stamped!

01.30.14 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED

N400 TIMELINE

07.29.14 - Mailed N400 Packet to TX

08.05.14 - Case Received (Text message)

08.09.14 - Received I-797C

08.16.14 - Received Biometric Appointment Letter

08.29.14 - Biometric Appointment

02.17.15 - Interview - APPROVED

02.26.15 - Naturalization Ceremony

Posted

Frankly I don't see the discrimination, not until the OP is not hired due to the fact that she is a woman, she is not a US Citizen, she had a baby outside the wedlock, etc. The first set of questions is totally legitimate, asking whether she can legally work in the US and for how long, too (in fact, form I-9 serves that purpose). All other questions seem to me like a chit chat brought up by some answers of the OP (the pregnancy, where she lives, etc.) Also, what does it matter that the interviewer put vaseline on her lips (lips as in mouth, right?): is this unprofessional? I was on the east coast for a couple of days a few weeks ago and my lips got very dry. In sum, if you don't feel comfortable about a work interview, just walk out and move on.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with applying Vaseline to your lips. However, there is a time and place for everything. This was neither the time nor the place. I thought it was unprofessional. Just my opinion.

AOS TIMELINE
05.03.11 - Got Married

05.05.11 - Filed I-485, I-130 and I-765
06.08.11 - Biometric Done
07.27.11 - Mailed RFE to Lee's Summit MO(Express)
08.04.11 - EAD CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED!!! YAY!!!
08.12.11 - EAD IN HAND!!! WOOHOO!!
09.16.11 - INTERVIEW(No Decision on Spot, IO wrote in Passport"CR6 A# I-485 pending IO (name) USCIS LNY Section 245"
10.26.11 - Stokes Interview at 26 Federal Plaza
10.27.11 - APPROVED!!! WOOHOO!! WHAT A JOURNEY!!
11.01.11 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED
11.04.11 - GREEN CARD IN HAND

ROC TIMELINE

08.01.13 - Mailed ROC Packet to VSC

08.14.13 - Biometric Appointment Letter Received

09.03.13 - Biometric Completed

09.17.13 - Case Transferred to CSC

11.01.13 - CSC Transferred Case to Local Office to Schedule Interview

12.31.13 - Received Appointment Notice from Local Office (Long Island City). Interview on 01.16.14

01.16.14 - I-751 Interview

01.16.14 - Approved on Spot!! :-) Passport Stamped!

01.30.14 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED

N400 TIMELINE

07.29.14 - Mailed N400 Packet to TX

08.05.14 - Case Received (Text message)

08.09.14 - Received I-797C

08.16.14 - Received Biometric Appointment Letter

08.29.14 - Biometric Appointment

02.17.15 - Interview - APPROVED

02.26.15 - Naturalization Ceremony

Posted

Just to update you guys, I was called back for a second interview a week later.....I DECLINED!! I would never work for a company like that.

AOS TIMELINE
05.03.11 - Got Married

05.05.11 - Filed I-485, I-130 and I-765
06.08.11 - Biometric Done
07.27.11 - Mailed RFE to Lee's Summit MO(Express)
08.04.11 - EAD CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED!!! YAY!!!
08.12.11 - EAD IN HAND!!! WOOHOO!!
09.16.11 - INTERVIEW(No Decision on Spot, IO wrote in Passport"CR6 A# I-485 pending IO (name) USCIS LNY Section 245"
10.26.11 - Stokes Interview at 26 Federal Plaza
10.27.11 - APPROVED!!! WOOHOO!! WHAT A JOURNEY!!
11.01.11 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED
11.04.11 - GREEN CARD IN HAND

ROC TIMELINE

08.01.13 - Mailed ROC Packet to VSC

08.14.13 - Biometric Appointment Letter Received

09.03.13 - Biometric Completed

09.17.13 - Case Transferred to CSC

11.01.13 - CSC Transferred Case to Local Office to Schedule Interview

12.31.13 - Received Appointment Notice from Local Office (Long Island City). Interview on 01.16.14

01.16.14 - I-751 Interview

01.16.14 - Approved on Spot!! :-) Passport Stamped!

01.30.14 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED

N400 TIMELINE

07.29.14 - Mailed N400 Packet to TX

08.05.14 - Case Received (Text message)

08.09.14 - Received I-797C

08.16.14 - Received Biometric Appointment Letter

08.29.14 - Biometric Appointment

02.17.15 - Interview - APPROVED

02.26.15 - Naturalization Ceremony

Posted

That must have felt pretty good.

ABSOLUTELY :yes:

Thanks for your insight, I am just now reading the discussion between you and Rebecca Jo...very interesting

AOS TIMELINE
05.03.11 - Got Married

05.05.11 - Filed I-485, I-130 and I-765
06.08.11 - Biometric Done
07.27.11 - Mailed RFE to Lee's Summit MO(Express)
08.04.11 - EAD CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED!!! YAY!!!
08.12.11 - EAD IN HAND!!! WOOHOO!!
09.16.11 - INTERVIEW(No Decision on Spot, IO wrote in Passport"CR6 A# I-485 pending IO (name) USCIS LNY Section 245"
10.26.11 - Stokes Interview at 26 Federal Plaza
10.27.11 - APPROVED!!! WOOHOO!! WHAT A JOURNEY!!
11.01.11 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED
11.04.11 - GREEN CARD IN HAND

ROC TIMELINE

08.01.13 - Mailed ROC Packet to VSC

08.14.13 - Biometric Appointment Letter Received

09.03.13 - Biometric Completed

09.17.13 - Case Transferred to CSC

11.01.13 - CSC Transferred Case to Local Office to Schedule Interview

12.31.13 - Received Appointment Notice from Local Office (Long Island City). Interview on 01.16.14

01.16.14 - I-751 Interview

01.16.14 - Approved on Spot!! :-) Passport Stamped!

01.30.14 - CARD PRODUCTION ORDERED

N400 TIMELINE

07.29.14 - Mailed N400 Packet to TX

08.05.14 - Case Received (Text message)

08.09.14 - Received I-797C

08.16.14 - Received Biometric Appointment Letter

08.29.14 - Biometric Appointment

02.17.15 - Interview - APPROVED

02.26.15 - Naturalization Ceremony

 
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