Harsh Question

[Imagination 15]

This is the absolute truth. I live in an area where the cost of living is very low and I could never dream of the numbers that were mentioned there. There seems to be a lack of reality in the numbers.

You know that there are people living with 'those numbers', just fine.

[Reyan 56]

Another important expense to factor in is Medical/Dental insurance.

[Imagination 15]

Your calculations make a lot of assumptions. In some areas, you couldn't rent a tiny studio for $600/month. A lot of areas don't have public transportation. And I don't know anyone whose utilities are $100, even if some are included in rent. $6000 for food, shopping, etc. is $500 a month. Does that really seem realistic to you? Maybe people with tremendous self-control and the time/inclination to clip coupons and shop around could make that work, but it seems awfully optimistic if you are expecting that money to cover all other needs.

$500/month is good for family of 5 for food. People who live with that figure it all out so well.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I live on the street and eat trash! I know how to make it work off of zero, why can't everyone else get my secret? I'm special!

Edited February 25, 2012 by Harpa Timsah

[Mike B. 231]

And now money should decide if a family should reunite or not. because someone can not imagine a family of two on $18450... you know iphones, brand name clothing and expensive cars are not necessities of life.

18450 is enough for a family of two. Let me break it down for you:

1. Rent: 600x12 = 7200

2. Utilities: 100x12 = 1200 (most are usually included with rent)

3. Transportation: 50x12= 600 (public transportation)

6000 left to spend on rest of the expenses (food, shopping, etc)

but by the wayyy.. thats one person salary.. when their partner is here the income would double too!

I live in Washington, DC. Here's The Washington Post's rental webpage, which is the one everyone here uses: http://www.apartmentshowcase.com

As you will see, there is not a single apartment for rent in this entire city for $600/month. Not even in the slummy parts of DC, which are among the most dangerous places in America. I'm not sure if you've rented an apartment in the past 50 years, but $600 in a major city would be an unbelievable steal. Hell, if I could find a studio for double that near a metro station I'd move out tomorrow if I had to to get it. I'm serious -- if you look at that page and find something, let me know.

Also, in order to save on transportation, I don't own a car and take the metro a grand total of three stops, which is about 10 minutes on the train. My commute costs me $90/month.

Anyway, this is exactly my point from my previous post: the costs of medical care (which you don't account for. Hope your hypothetical person never gets sick! Or, for that matter, audited, since you don't have him paying taxes) and rent have grown so incredibly over the years that the costs you have to assume to imagine that the poverty guidelines are correct is just totally divorced from the everyday reality of life in 2012.

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

What I find as ruduculous is this co-sponsor> so the USC doesn"t meet the 125% poverty guideline so you go ask mom, dad, aunt Sue somebody to fill out forms. So when the USC can't afford to take care will these sponsors really step in?

Do co-sponsors really realize they have signed a swore oath saying they will financially support this person. It just seems wrong to ask someone else to step in and sign for your responsibility.

But the initial question I did vote on the No, it needs to be higher. I can mot even imagine a family of two on $18450 or so. WOW.

I agree, it's ridiculous. One of the reasons my fiance and I waited was due to our financial condition. But now I have a job where I make far above the poverty line but I still am forced to get a cosponsor because the Indian consulates have their own set of rules.

This is my beef with the cosponsor. What if I unexpectedly die due to some freak accident? Because I had a cosponsor my death would not nullify their agreement to my foreign spouse. It's very unsettling to know that I would be leaving my spouse and my cosponsor in a horrible situation.

It's so stupid because I earn more money per year than my cosponsor but my income will not be accepted because I was in college.

[Imagination 15]

I live in Washington, DC. Here's The Washington Post's rental webpage, which is the one everyone here uses: http://www.apartmentshowcase.com

As you will see, there is not a single apartment for rent in this entire city for $600/month. Not even in the slummy parts of DC, which are among the most dangerous places in America. I'm not sure if you've rented an apartment in the past 50 years, but $600 in a major city would be an unbelievable steal. Hell, if I could find a studio for double that near a metro station I'd move out tomorrow if I had to to get it. I'm serious -- if you look at that page and find something, let me know.

Also, in order to save on transportation, I don't own a car and take the metro a grand total of three stops, which is about 10 minutes on the train. My commute costs me $90/month.

Anyway, this is exactly my point from my previous post: the costs of medical care (which you don't account for. Hope your hypothetical person never gets sick! Or, for that matter, audited, since you don't have him paying taxes) and rent have grown so incredibly over the years that the costs you have to assume to imagine that the poverty guidelines are correct is just totally divorced from the everyday reality of life in 2012.

I can find 1 bedroom apartments for 400$/month. I can't help you if you have to live in DC. $50/month -->unlimited use of public transportation. Doesnt matter how far you have to go.

Edit: i agree i didnt account for the medical/dental insurance, and relying on prayers. dont get sick!

Edited February 25, 2012 by Imagination

[Mike B. 231]

Ok, I concede its not the 4th, it's basis is even deeper in the constitution's declaration of independence as part of the original document.

I should have fact checked that a tad more. In the end it's semantics whether it's the 4th Amendment or the 25th or if it's in the declaration. It's in the Constitution and that is the prevailing document in our country.

Where its at doesn't change the implication nor the inference to the stated reason in the post when compared to the statement in the Constitution.

"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence and considered by some as part of one of the most well crafted, influential sentences in the history of the English language." -

But it's not semantics. I'm not trying to be annoying about this, but the fact of the matter is that there is ONE document that is the supreme law of the land in this country, and it does not mention that there is a right to pursue happiness. Jefferson thought that it was a self-evident right, but the framers of the Constitution made the conscious decision to exclude that phrase from our body of law.

Incidentally, I do agree with the thrust of your original post.

[JacAng 8]

So, then tax payers should support them?

If they are that poor we already are.....

[pddp 240]

Wow. Ours truly is an age of intolerance, ignorance and insolence. And America clearly is the world leader in all that. Sorry to see this on visajourney as well.

[Xanax 349]

In the event that the marriage does not work, the US citizen (or co-sponsor) must pay all reasonble expenses for the immigrant to move back to his/her home country. I don't think that sounds unreasonable, rather, just living up to your decision and accepting the responsibility of your actions, for both parties. No I-864 contract with them for the rest of your forseeable future, no goverment possibly suing you for assets to cover benefits, just taking reasonable steps as consequences of our own decisions.

Just my .02 dollars

I think that is a terrible idea. Someone has left their home country, possibly made a life in the US, their marriage disolves and then it's like "OK, cya you have to go back". A lot of people who used the K1 get divorced. It would be cruel to make the beneficiary leave if they did not want to after a marriage breakdown.

[villaspurs 65]

I am talking about the possibility people have with that amount of money. If they CHOOSE to live in an area where public transportation or low rent apartments are not available, it is their choice. and again, people's situation can get much better when they have a partner here to work with them. Why the assumption that the person that will come will be a burden to the sponsor?

If someone brings a fiance/fiancee in on a K1 visa, the immigrant can't work for an extended period of time. Thus, a burden on the sponsor.

I think you greatly overestimate the mobility of much of the American population. People are geographically bound by any number of factors, including family, jobs, etc. It's not as easy as "oh just pick up and move somewhere cheaper and you'll be fine," which you seem to be implying by saying people CHOOSE to live in these areas. It's more complicated than this.

I can find 1 bedroom apartments for 400$/month. I can't help you if you have to live in DC. $50/month -->unlimited use of public transportation. Doesnt matter how far you have to go.

Edit: i agree i didnt account for the medical/dental insurance, and relying on prayers. dont get sick!

So if you get sick or hurt and have to go to the hospital, who has to pick up the tab?

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

We all have our personal reasons for wanting to import a foreigner to our country.

Some of us may be butt ugly, unable to find even a butt ugly spouse anywhere in the U.S.

Some of us may be homely, insecure in going out and being among other people, so we rather do this online.

Some of us may be so poor that even a homeless person would show us the erected middle finger.

Some of us may want a sexy 18 year-old Thai girl that looks like she's 15, but gives super massages.

Some of us are so 18th century, that we may want a wife who does what we say, when we say it, like it's in the bible.

Some of us are older, perhaps divorced once or twice, and fall for that 20-year-younger guy from Morocco or Nigeria.

Some of us maybe immigrants ourselves, looking for a spouse from our old country, which we deem more compatible.

Some of us manage to live off of nearly nothing.

Some of us need many thousands of dollars.

But what is good for this country and its people?

While we want every citizen to be happy, we need people who contribute to this country. We need people who work, pay taxes, do good. What we don't want is people who become a burden on the American people . . . heck we also don't want people who become such a financial burden on the American spouse that the spouse ends up collecting means tested benefits.

Balancing all this is the goal, and it's not an easy one. The U.S. government sets certain standards on the income, and IMNSHO they are pretty low. My groceries bill is $1,100 per month, my fuel bill $600. I won't tell you what I spend on my mortgage or my Starbucks habit, or on my hobbies, but if I had to turn it back to $20K per year, I would be dead, unable to survive financially. I would lose everything I own, including my comerical property. I would be bankrupt.

What I would change if I had the power is not only the amount for the Affidavit of Support, but I would also require any intending immigrant to demonstrate a moderate knowledge of the English language, a desire to integrate, a promise to hold in high esteem the values of this country, and the ability to take care of themselves, as it's the case in many countries. Given that we have about 25 million unemployed or underemployed people in the U.S. right now, I feel that we should not only eliminate illegal immigration as much as possible, but reduce legal immigration as well until the economy has recovered and U.S. businesses need people to hire again.

[Imagination 15]

We all have our personal reasons for wanting to import a foreigner to our country.

Some of us may be butt ugly, unable to find even a butt ugly spouse anywhere in the U.S.

Some of us may be homely, insecure in going out and being among other people, so we rather do this online.

Some of us may be so poor that even a homeless person would show us the erected middle finger.

Some of us may want a sexy 18 year-old Thai girl that looks like she's 15, but gives super massages.

Some of us are so 18th century, that we may want a wife who does what we say, when we say it, like it's in the bible.

Some of us are older, perhaps divorced once or twice, and fall for that 20-year-younger guy from Morocco or Nigeria.

Some of us maybe immigrants ourselves, looking for a spouse from our old country, which we deem more compatible.

Some of us manage to live off of nearly nothing.

Some of us need many thousands of dollars.

But what is good for this country and its people?

While we want every citizen to be happy, we need people who contribute to this country. We need people who work, pay taxes, do good. What we don't want is people who become a burden on the American people . . . heck we also don't want people who become such a financial burden on the American spouse that the spouse ends up collecting means tested benefits.

Balancing all this is the goal, and it's not an easy one. The U.S. government sets certain standards on the income, and IMNSHO they are pretty low. My groceries bill is $1,100 per month, my fuel bill $600. I won't tell you what I spend on my mortgage or my Starbucks habit, or on my hobbies, but if I had to turn it back to $20K per year, I would be dead, unable to survive financially. I would lose everything I own, including my comerical property. I would be bankrupt.

What I would change if I had the power is not only the amount for the Affidavit of Support, but I would also require any intending immigrant to demonstrate a moderate knowledge of the English language, a desire to integrate, a promise to hold in high esteem the values of this country, and the ability to take care of themselves, as it's the case in many countries. Given that we have about 25 million unemployed or underemployed people in the U.S. right now, I feel that we should not only eliminate illegal immigration as much as possible, but reduce legal immigration as well until the economy has recovered and U.S. businesses need people to hire again.

Read about how immigrants help US economy: http://takingnote.tcf.org/2010/03/immigration-jobs-and-the-american-economy-revisited.html

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm

[Andy_R 12]

Your calculations make a lot of assumptions. In some areas, you couldn't rent a tiny studio for $600/month. A lot of areas don't have public transportation. And I don't know anyone whose utilities are $100, even if some are included in rent. $6000 for food, shopping, etc. is $500 a month. Does that really seem realistic to you? Maybe people with tremendous self-control and the time/inclination to clip coupons and shop around could make that work, but it seems awfully optimistic if you are expecting that money to cover all other needs.

Really? $600 gets you a decent place where I live. I spend about $280/month shopping and for food etc (just myself right now) so will probably spend less than $500 when my fiance gets here since we'll prepare more food at home. I live a pretty comfortable life. I can afford to pay for my hobbies and plenty of extras too. When you include cable, gas, electricity, phone, etc my utilities are definitely more than $100, but my fiance and I might be willing to give up cell phones and cable TV if it came down to choosing between those and being able to live together.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't underestimate other people's flexibility and ability to make things work. I certainly don't need anyone telling me that I can't provide for myself and my fiance. Although I do happen to be above the 125% guideline, if I weren't I would still expect to be treated like an adult who can make his own decisions.