Harsh Question

[villaspurs 65]

Really? $600 gets you a decent place where I live. I spend about $280/month shopping and for food etc (just myself right now) so will probably spend less than $500 when my fiance gets here since we'll prepare more food at home. I live a pretty comfortable life. I can afford to pay for my hobbies and plenty of extras too. When you include cable, gas, electricity, phone, etc my utilities are definitely more than $100, but my fiance and I might be willing to give up cell phones and cable TV if it came down to choosing between those and being able to live together.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't underestimate other people's flexibility and ability to make things work. I certainly don't need anyone telling me that I can't provide for myself and my fiance. Although I do happen to be above the 125% guideline, if I weren't I would still expect to be treated like an adult who can make his own decisions.

Make no mistake--as I said, some people can make this work. Many, many can't. Instead, they live on credit cards and promise, which doesn't get you too far. I commend people who have found jobs and built lives in places where the cost of living is low and have managed to make their dollars stretch as far as possible. Not everyone is like you, though. Some people live in more expensive areas and don't have the choice to move. Other people don't have the skills or self-control to manage their money. Still others try, but life intervenes and things fall apart quickly. I've never said that the 125% poverty line is too low--I didn't even vote in the poll, because I just don't know. All I said was that Imagination's numbers wouldn't work everywhere, and they don't. I live in an affordable Midwestern college town--things are fairly cheap here. But it would be tough to get by on $500 for EVERYTHING two people need. Could some people do it? Absolutely. But not everyone could make that happen.

[pauli 49]

2 points:

1. A national poverty line is an awkward statistic because the cost of living in New York City is many times higher than that of Oshkosh, Wisconsin. While requiring 200% of the poverty line for NYC residents seems reasonable, it is unfair to those in Oshkosh who may be fine at 125%.

2. I think some people have different ideas of what the poverty line indicates. The poverty line is not determined to be that income at which one is "comfortable" (although one could be depending on his or her situation). Instead, it is the minimum amount at which one can afford the basic necessities of life. Basic doesn't mean live in an ok part of the city with cable tv.

[Imagination 15]

Make no mistake--as I said, some people can make this work. Many, many can't. Instead, they live on credit cards and promise, which doesn't get you too far. I commend people who have found jobs and built lives in places where the cost of living is low and have managed to make their dollars stretch as far as possible. Not everyone is like you, though. Some people live in more expensive areas and don't have the choice to move. Other people don't have the skills or self-control to manage their money. Still others try, but life intervenes and things fall apart quickly. I've never said that the 125% poverty line is too low--I didn't even vote in the poll, because I just don't know. All I said was that Imagination's numbers wouldn't work everywhere, and they don't. I live in an affordable Midwestern college town--things are fairly cheap here. But it would be tough to get by on $500 for EVERYTHING two people need. Could some people do it? Absolutely. But not everyone could make that happen.

I wouldn't disagree with you here. It seems that you misunderstood "the numbers". They are obviously not generic or applicable to any given city/town in the US. Again, connecting it back to the topic here, whether 125% of poverty guideline is a fair requirement or not. It MAY BE fair to some people BUT it may not be fair to others.

So when I say that some people may be able to make it with that money.. should they be denied bringing their wife/husband to live with them?

Once again, the immigrants that come to this country actually benefit the country (rather than the misconception that they would be a burden--BTW they can apply for work permit as soon as they apply for AOS, which is as soon as they get married here.. so its not too long)

And see the links that I posted about economy and immigrants.. or research.

[thelastpetitioner 218]

My problem isn't with poverty guidelines, because some people are penny pinchers and can make it work, my problem is with sponsorship. To USCIS sponsors are legally responsible for the beneficiaries, in reality, co sponsors more often than not don't even know the beneficiary or see them that often.they contribute nothing to the life style of a beneficiary who came here with a co sponsor , therefor I think they shouldn't be held responsible once that beneficiary becomes a public charge.

This whole co sponsorship thing makes no sense,and I honestly think it should be removed... It's nothing but a cover up from USCIS's side

[HannahP 119]

My problem isn't with poverty guidelines, because some people are penny pinchers and can make it work, my problem is with sponsorship. To USCIS sponsors are legally responsible for the beneficiaries, in reality, co sponsors more often than not don't even know the beneficiary or see them that often.they contribute nothing to the life style of a beneficiary who came here with a co sponsor , therefor I think they shouldn't be held responsible once that beneficiary becomes a public charge.

This whole co sponsorship thing makes no sense,and I honestly think it should be removed... It's nothing but a cover up from USCIS's side

Who makes the decision to co-sponsor someone that they don't know??

My daddy took my now-husband fishin', huntin', and shootin' before he decided that he was good enough people to co-sponsor.

[Laure&Colin 558]

Can you actually specify how married citizens are obligated to provide for each other, outside of having to meet the conditions for a pre-nup? Not providing can be grounds for divorce, I suppose. And parents are obligated to pay for any children conceived via child support. Alimony might come into play but seems to be getting harder and harder to receive. And splitting any debt incurred while you were married. But those last three are all post-divorce issues. I really can't think of how a married couple are legally bound to support each other, at all. Ethically, yes.

My husband and I eventually married on a K1 but lived together for two years while he was here on a student visa. Our names were together on the apartment lease and the bills. We probably had greater legal obligations to each other in that manner than someone who is just married but has no kids, etc.

Yes not providing can be ground for divorce at the sole responsibility of the one who failed to provide support.

You and your then boyfriend felt committed to each other because you were living together, but legally, nothing was binding you. You had NO legal obligations to each other. One of you could have walked out the door and never come back, and the other one could have done absolutely nothing about it. Unless you signed a notarized contract stating that each of you was going to pay exactly half the rent, the fact both your names were on the lease just meant that if one of you disappeared, the other one would have to pay for everything! Don't be mistaken.

On the other hand, right now I could argue that my husband has left me to go back to his country and file for divorce, he would be found responsible for abandoning me and I could claim for alimony. In other words, the USC here is at risk legally speaking because the immigration process is keeping us apart.

Imagine cases where the situation turns sour during the process... the foreign spouse could use the fact that the US spouse is not by their side against them.

No such thing is possible in a fiancé case.

So for the protection of the USC's legal interests alone, yes I think spousal visas should be processed with a priority over K visas.

[Amanda&Elvio 12]

I met my husband while I was a Peace Corps volunteer in his country. For the past 2 years my income has been the equivalent of minimum wage in the 2nd poorest country in South America but it won't be that forever. I am fluent in Spanish, have 2 years of international Public Health experience and have several job offers lined up in the US. So currently I need a joint sponsor and I am glad to have that option so that I don't have to be separated from my husband.

[Kelly C 16]

When ever some tragedy happens in the world, and the world takes notice, who does the world collectively look to? Such as the 2004 Tsunami - Did the world look to Sweden or Zimbabwe or Russia to help? No, the first response was where were the carriers, where was the US?

When things go to ####### in a handbasket... Who does the world look for in terms of leadership and protection? Venezuela? Argentina? Greece? No, the worlds looks for the US to ride in there and clean up the mess. Often when it does us absolutely no good. Because just like the old adage says "no good deed goes unpunished".

Freedom of Speech is a common freedom in the developed world. Nothing special there.

Well look back at your history (I would say books but we all know just google it).

When Europe was bogged down in the 80's - early 2000 with perpetually high unemployment rates of 10% or more,

it was the vitality of the US system that was the beacon of the world. In the US, you are limited only by your own skills and drive. There is no caste system like in India or England for that matter where you are expected to be a member of this sect and you'd damn well better stay there. That is why you have college drop outs who have gone on to create the two largest companies in the US - Apple and Microsoft. Why you have presidents who came from single family homes (Bill Clinton) or other walks of life (not the ruling elites like of Europe).

Why is it that these protesters are protesting the major companies, yet they use apple computers and drink starbucks, etc? America was built on the philosophy that you pull yourself up by your boot straps. If you get knocked down, you figure out why and you fix it.

If you don't have a college degree... in today's world you need it.

If you have one, but its in a generic discipline, say psychology, and you are having to work as a barista at starbucks, for $10/hr then who is to blame that you are only making $10/hr? You or the company who is looking for someone with a skill?

If you have a technical skill, but you have let it get stale, and now can't find work. Who is ultimately to blame for your condition? The company because the technology has evolved past your skill set? or is it you because you have not went back to get a relevant new skill to make yourself marketable?

[ I find myself in a similar situation. I don't like it, but in the end you have to look yourself in the mirror and acknowledge your own past poor decisions and find a way to get to the other side. But now this is a circular argument, because that leads us back to this being the greatest country and you have the opportunities to achieve those changes if you pursue them.]

So if you condemn the concept that marriage has been a concept of a union of a man and a woman then I guess the next group that comes along to expand you're already expanded definition to include poligamy or beastiality, you will be ok with expanding the definition because of the fairness clause. How about arranged marriages for kids to old men? some cultures still do this? If you are going to open the door way to anything goes, then you have to be ready for all of the ####### that seeps in along with it.

So why do independent polls show that 90% of reporters are democrats? Until Fox came along and 90% of reporters are democrats/liberals, then where was the bias then? Grow up.

And what happened before those 52 years? It was called the Great Depression. Well in the history books years from now, this period also will have a catchy name for it. Look around the world. There are problems boiling up on every front, Western Europe and it socialist welfare - cradle to grave - entitlements, where the companies can not hire anyone because once they do they are stuck with that individual for life (damn near). The rising economies, India, China, are rising due to better negotiating skills on the part of their politicians. They make their money off of the US economy, just like the vast majority of the rest of the world does. Our politicians sell out the US day in and day out. Even a country as small as Columbia has a $4M trade surplus with the US. So multiply that with a larger Western European or Chinese economy.

Why do you think it takes so long to get processed for immigration visas? Try playing with your NOA1 number and see how many 100's of thousands you have to go back for a month prior to your priority date. That shows you just how many people are clamoring to get into the US. Why are they trying to come here and not in their own country? Because they, unlike your type, know this country is the land of opportunity. You can achieve greatness but you are going to have to do it on your own. Historically big government wasn't sitting there with their knee on your throat hampering your ability to succeed. Take a look at the restrictions and things that have become illegal to do in the last 40 years. Big Government stealing our liberty one act at a time.

For example. kids today are not grouped by their cognitive abilities like they were in days past. Because they will be stigmatized because they are put together in the 'dumb kids class' or other nonsense, (instead of viewing it as the kids are at this level and are taught at this particular pace), so now the kids are disbursed into the regular classroom and the teacher is forced to teach at the LCD (lowest common denominator) pace to the benefit of that one child at the expense of the rest. Our education schools have nose dived in direct relation to the implementation of this feel good philosophy. (google it! - there i quoted Rosie for you).

No other country in the world has as many diverse groups of people vying to get inside their country like the US does.

If you hate this country so much. You have my permission to find a more appealing one that more suits your tastes.

THANK YOU!!!

[Operator 1,927]

[Kelly C 16]

Ok, I have another thought.

I think WE as a Nation (in consideration of our founding fathers) and the essence of The United States of America (We the People, not the Government) would like to see our neighbors as, healthy, of good moral character, and basically just "good people".

The core principles here in the USA are IMO getting distorted, and we are becoming less tolerant and more cynical. I mean how long can the good, hardworking, tax-paying citizens of the USA tolerate a society that mandates you pay for others willingness to "mooch". Is that not one of the reasons our forefathers migrated to America, to escape the unfair taxation?

I will put myself out there.

I started my family early (I was not prepared for the powerful emotions of young love and sex) I was 16 when I got my then wife-to-be pregnant.

I went to work as a grease-monkey. In 2 years I was lead mechanic. I did whatever was necessary to provide for my family working 12-14 hours a day 6-7 days a week while paying at-least my fair share of taxes. Over the next nine years I noticed people on "welfare" living pretty good. (here is where my mind started changing) taxes. I changed Jobs several times, struggled at times, was on unemployment a couple of times but always "managed". without ever beening on welfare, and resented some that were.

I sacrificed a lot working as hard as I did broken fingers, hurt back, tendinitis-carpal tunnel, torn ligaments, sprained ankle, etc) I now recieve disability income which in and of itself is hard to reconcile in my mind even tho I paid the damn premiums every month.

Anyways, I think the working people see some citizens and immigrants as "takers".

In my case, I own my property with a $210 payment. My vehicles are paid for. I have lots of stuff,

and have been doin pretty good buyin dog food for my best bud, but I would be devastated if my I-129F was denied because of my income which does not reflect my ability to provide for my family

I believe it is a mind-set to be a "taker" or a "giver", and IMO we all want people "to pull their own weight" while being compassionate enough to help our neighbors without a mandate.

Kelly

Edited February 25, 2012 by Kelly C

[DeeDee&Sam 68]

everything is fine the way it is. if couples are smart they can work better togheter here in usa after the immigration of one of them. my husband makes more money at 22 with no degree than more people with 2-3 degrees because he was smart. and you dont need an EAD to open a small bussiness online when you get here. the level of 125% should not be changed. smart people can get 200% in 2 months after marriage working togheter. but of course, uscis is the one to decide. i personally dont care about new immigrants since im more concerned about my own family. whoever stays behind...well their luck

[Chris-n-Veronica 0]

I think if both partners go into the marriage knowing that they both need to work (assuming) you just make the 125% level to qualify.. You should be fine with a little pre-planning for pregnancy like buying insurance etc..,

And knowing that buying things like cars and houses will take time and a good plan of action and commitment to a house hold budget.

My wife stays at home during the day with our daughter and I work a full time job but at night we both work together cleaning a building which makes us about what she would make being gone for 8 hours..We found a great babysitter that we pay $16 per night and not the $125-190 some of the professional care places want for 30-40 hours

The plan is for her to take some online courses and when our daughter goes to school go back to college ..So we can quit this night work..but for now this is what is needed to have a life..

If you have a "I'll do what it takes" attitude and willing to use your brain You can make this all work..... but don't even think you can keep up your normal day when you start out.. You know what I mean... get up..go the starbucks..work..McDonalds for lunch..home..order pizza..play your play station or hang out with friends..WATCH TV..go to bed.. this will change..you've just made a big commitment to love..cherish..support your foreign love and this is a new country for them..scarey..maybe have to teach them to drive.. and you have no idea how much you have to work on communications..I'm not talking about language, I'm talking about her misunderstanding you and feelings being hurt..teaching her/him our English slang..different customs..more feelings hurt..

This might sound exotic but it's work... Is it worth it ? H?LL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Good Luck..

[thelastpetitioner 218]

Who makes the decision to co-sponsor someone that they don't know??

My daddy took my now-husband fishin', huntin', and shootin' before he decided that he was good enough people to co-sponsor.

Not everyone has the privilege of taking their partner to their home country and introducing them to the whole family

[thelastpetitioner 218]

everything is fine the way it is. if couples are smart they can work better togheter here in usa after the immigration of one of them. my husband makes more money at 22 with no degree than more people with 2-3 degrees because he was smart. and you dont need an EAD to open a small bussiness online when you get here. the level of 125% should not be changed. smart people can get 200% in 2 months after marriage working togheter. but of course, uscis is the one to decide. i personally dont care about new immigrants since im more concerned about my own family. whoever stays behind...well their luck

Did you get 200 % two months after you got married? Because as far as I can remember you were crying online about how you got kicked out within weeks of coming here. Let's be real people don't fall for the whole online business thing anymore, there is so much going out of independent business owner's pocket that even a booming business isn't enough for some of them to make ends meet.... Then there are websites like easy and eBay.

It's not about how you can make moneym it's about knowing what you're getting into and being ready for it

[LSnBigBear 61]

Great Topic... I am one person that went from making a boat load of money (six figures) to being displaced with my position being eliminated in 2010. Over the course of time I had to live on savings as I had gone though a nasty divorce that was final in 2010. So 2011 I worked little as an Independent Sales rep at about and Consulting at 19k (I returned from Philippines in August 2011) after spending 14 months there. This has been a concern for me as I just cleared the bar. I am now employed earning decent but not six figures. I have budgeted in a spreadsheet her going to Cebu for her NBI, Passport and Certificate to marry $200; our Visa fee $340, her trip and Medical to Manila I am estimating $1000 at the high so she and her mother can go together. Then if I can get off work $1800 for my roundtrip flight (anticipating an increase due to fuel costs, her one way trip $1100 and then her AOS $1100.

BUT as I look at this way as I have added up the following. If I would date an American woman here in my town I would spend anywhere from 40-60 weekly on one date. If I do this twice per month there is $100 or $1200 per one year of dating. And I think we all know that dating an American woman will most likely cost much more. So maybe I have an investment of $5550 in one year I am so very much happier waiting for my fiancee then dating any women here in the USA. I met my fiancee the old fashion way as I lived in Cebu where I asked her out in person. I tried not falling in love but it did not work.

If I look back at my first marriage for 20 years. My ex and I were 18 with a 6 month old son when we married. I/We were dirt poor. We grew together like it is suppose to be done in a marriage. My fiancee understands my entire situation and budget. She stayed at my place in Cebu and helped me.

Forward thinking. I had a vascetomy 25 years ago. She wants a baby. She knows she must save $6000 once she is here so we can go to Vietnam for the invetro as this is cheapest at less than $2000. So yes I agree everyone should think long and hard about this process. I sure did. I am ready for this! Nice topic.