Happy Russian Fighter's Day!

[visaveteran1 33]

And the American government deciding to go into Vietnam and forcing you to go as well gets no amount of credit for your suffering?

No, the communists broke a treaty and started a war. We supported an ally. And we were in the Cold War. That's how it was.

BTW, the Vietnam War helped bring down the Soviet Union by breaking their bank. So, I was happy to serve. Your generation gets a pass on military service. So you get the best of things and give back nothing.

[visaveteran1 33]

it's zero-class.

Does that makes us kind of brothers?

Edited February 25, 2012 by visaveteran1

[visaveteran1 33]

I apologize if the original conceptualization of the holiday personally offend you or anyone else. I only intended for the post to be a celebration of the modern interpretation of the holiday, which many Russians only consider Men's day. My fiancee and I have discussed the possibility of me joining the military. Even though that's not possible at this time, she knows that by being my wife she'd be subject to any of the rules and laws of citizens. She also knows that the possibility exists that Russia and America could have a conflict, or that Russian citizens may be persecuted for war crimes. She has stated that she would support me in that case as well, even if it meant that she wouldn't be able to see her family for some time.

Of course, every conflict is different, and I wouldn't expect her to support me if my mission or actions were to commit any crimes of humanity against other people, especially not against her family. I don't think anyone would.

Again, I was not trying to idolize or glorify the conflict from which this holiday is based upon, and I ask that you only try to understand my real intentions with this post.

If this causes you any anguish, please feel free to ask an administrator to remove this entire thread; I would have no problem with that. However, you did fight for our freedoms, and for that I will not ask for this post to be removed b/c I had no offensive intentions.

Appreciate the apology and explanation. It takes a man to own something and try to fix it. Thank you.

Good luck to you and your fiancee.

[visaveteran1 33]

How is it apples and oranges? Point is, neither side comes off well when the Cold War is examined from a non-biased perspective. I'm not saying the Soviet Union's hands were clean; I am simply saying that the United States certainly is not without its own sin.

The topic is celebrating the Red Army. Why should we honor them in any way? The only reason I can determine is wife kiss up.

You criticize Vietnam. What about the Russians invading Afghanistan in the 1980s?

The magnitude of evil that flowed from 80 years of the Soviet Union is beyond measure. The US reacts to communism and sometimes it was ugly...but in our last 80 years, we've done far more good than bad.

[eekee 182]

No, the communists broke a treaty and started a war. We supported an ally. And we were in the Cold War. That's how it was.

BTW, the Vietnam War helped bring down the Soviet Union by breaking their bank. So, I was happy to serve. Your generation gets a pass on military service. So you get the best of things and give back nothing.

You are free to think whatever you want about Vietnam, but I will differ with you on this one.

But how did my generation get a pass on military service? Tell that to my friend in Afghanistan right now. We may not have a draft, but there's still plenty of people in my generation who have seen and are seeing combat.

[eekee 182]

The topic is celebrating the Red Army. Why should we honor them in any way? The only reason I can determine is wife kiss up.

You criticize Vietnam. What about the Russians invading Afghanistan in the 1980s?

The magnitude of evil that flowed from 80 years of the Soviet Union is beyond measure. The US reacts to communism and sometimes it was ugly...but in our last 80 years, we've done far more good than bad.

I disagree with your last point. Plenty of evil has been done under the US flag.

I see the Soviets in Afghanistan and the US in Vietnam as two sides of the same coin... but we sure as hell shot ourselves in the foot by arming and training Afghanis to fight against the Soviets.

[visaveteran1 33]

But how did my generation get a pass on military service? Tell that to my friend in Afghanistan right now. We may not have a draft, but there's still plenty of people in my generation who have seen and are seeing combat.

No one agrees on Vietnam.

Your friend joined up voluntarily. He has no complaints unless he's been asleep for 11 years. But I appreciate his service.

Edited February 25, 2012 by visaveteran1

[visaveteran1 33]

I disagree with your last point. Plenty of evil has been done under the US flag.

I see the Soviets in Afghanistan and the US in Vietnam as two sides of the same coin... but we sure as hell shot ourselves in the foot by arming and training Afghanis to fight against the Soviets.

Not anywhere close to the magnitude of Russia...and you can always leave the USA...unlike the Soviet Union. There's just is no comparison.

Totally agree about arming the Taliban.

[visaveteran1 33]

YWe may not have a draft, but there's still plenty of people in my generation who have seen and are seeing combat.

Yes they are and they're patriots and impressive...especially the Seals and other Special Operations soldiers. And they got Geronimo-E.

I salute them.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

What about people in the US who celebrate the Fourth of July who're married to UK citizens? Does that bring any problems up for them?

NO WAY! If you marry a UK citizen you have to renounce July 4...no burgers on the grill for you!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Overall, I have no issues with the Russian people but I will never honor the Red Army. The only reason they entered WWII was because Hitler broke the pact with Stalin and attacked Russia. If not for our help they may have failed in their defense. It's a tough call to say who was ultimately worse, Hitler or Stalin? Certainly Stalin wins in body count.

We did not enter the war until the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we ignored what Germany did in Africa, Europe and the Soviet Union except for capitalizing on it to end the depression. We also ignored the horrible attrocities inflicted on our Chinese allies by Japan

We invented a reason to send you to Viet Nam to get shot. Too bad and I am sorry that happened to you and I respect your service, really I do, you should never have been in front of that Soviet made AK47, but let us not forget that the NVA and Viet Cong were also armed with over 1 million American made weapons that went missing for our aid to the Republic of South Viet Nam. You could just as easily have taken a hit from an M1 rifle or carbine.

At any rate the Soviets were doing even less to promote their agenda in Viet Nam than we were, so who is the bad guy? And in light of what happened after your sacrifice and that of many others I would say WE are the ones that messed up. And no I do not hate America, but running a war that way is a mistake.

I am keeping the gun !!!!

mox is married. i know this for a fact. now can we cease with the spanish inquisition?

Yo Quiro Taco Bell. Si man.

mox is married. i know this for a fact. now can we cease with the spanish inquisition?

Yeah but is he married to a Canadian?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Yes, everyday. Something deserving of honoring in my judgment. How have you served your country. Oh yeah...complain and whine.

Link?

Actually, yeah, I got shot also by a kid with a Remington M700, .25-06 in a hunting accident. Thought I looked like a deer. Must have had a doe tag. At any rate, that was more than 20 years ago and my leg still hurts and I remember what kind of gun it was. I walked with crutches and braces for 14 months and was glad to do it because my oldest son was 12 at the time and was about 2 feet from me. It could have been worse

Yeppers I can understand that. And my Dad was shot by a German prisoner that had a little hideout gun, .25 Auto. (so yeah, it was a minor wound) He kept the gun AND the bullet they took out of his shin. Another soldier saw the prisoner pull out the gun and slammed the muzzle of his rifle down on the guys arm and the gun went off hitting my Dad in the shin. They took the bullet out in a field hospital. It's BENT. I still have the gun and the bullet.

People remember getting shot.

[james&olya 1,121]

I'll tell you Red Army saluters to say what you want here...but you aren't being sensitive to the fact a lot of Americans suffered and died from the actions of the Soviet Union. It's one thing to salute Russian VE Day (although I choose not to) but to honor, even casually, the Red Army is disgraceful IMO.

BTW, for the fuss budgets, whiners, teachers pets, and trouble-makers, this is not off topic...this is a direct response to to topic. And since when did topics on RUB not go off topic? "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

The bad decisions of the leaders of the FSU do not diminish the nobility of service of those individual men who made up their military forces. As a Vietnam vet you, of all people, should understand the difference between the mistakes, lies, and deceptions used by the leaders to get us into war (Vietnam, Iraq, etc) and the nobility of service of those who gave their time, their blood, and sometimes their lives in service for their country! This is something that I think most of us can appreciate even in the face of those who we were told were our enemies. I, for one, consider the service of those who served in the red army to have been an honorable thing. And I certainly consider myself a patriot as well!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

The bad decisions of the leaders of the FSU do not diminish the nobility of service of those individual men who made up their military forces. As a Vietnam vet you, of all people, should understand the difference between the mistakes, lies, and deceptions used by the leaders to get us into war (Vietnam, Iraq, etc) and the nobility of service of those who gave their time, their blood, and sometimes their lives in service for their country! This is something that I think most of us can appreciate even in the face of those who we were told were our enemies. I, for one, consider the service of those who served in the red army to have been an honorable thing. And I certainly consider myself a patriot as well!

[visaveteran1 33]

The bad decisions of the leaders of the FSU do not diminish the nobility of service of those individual men who made up their military forces. As a Vietnam vet you, of all people, should understand the difference between the mistakes, lies, and deceptions used by the leaders to get us into war (Vietnam, Iraq, etc) and the nobility of service of those who gave their time, their blood, and sometimes their lives in service for their country! This is something that I think most of us can appreciate even in the face of those who we were told were our enemies. I, for one, consider the service of those who served in the red army to have been an honorable thing. And I certainly consider myself a patriot as well!

Does this "nobility" extend to the Nazi Germany soldiers?