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Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 7:29 PM, slim said:

Is that why the current government there (and here) declares it to be gaining ice?

Who said it's gaining ice? Why does losing ice slower than was predicted get twisted into gaining ice. Whenever something gets spun like that, you should already know you are getting political information, not scientific.

QCjgyJZ.jpg

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 7:44 PM, Dakine10 said:
Who said it's gaining ice? Why does losing ice slower than was predicted get twisted into gaining ice. Whenever something gets spun like that, you should already know you are getting political information, not scientific.

ORLY?

  On 2/17/2012 at 7:53 PM, Mr. Big Dog said:
Neither government has made any such claim.

ORLY?

Al Gore's #######

Русский форум член.

Ensure your beneficiary makes and brings with them to the States a copy of the DS-3025 (vaccination form)

If the government is going to force me to exercise my "right" to health care, then they better start requiring people to exercise their Right to Bear Arms. - "Where's my public option rifle?"

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Posted

Warmer temperatures or changing weather patterns - both are attributable to global warming. ;)

  Quote
Why Are Kilimanjaro's Glaciers Fading?

By Michael D. Lemonick Tuesday, Nov. 03, 2009

One of the criticisms most frequently lobbed at Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth is that he has his facts wrong about the snows of Kilimanjaro. Yes, those immortal snows are vanishing (actually, they're glaciers, but we can blame Ernest Hemingway for that bit of poetic license), as Gore's global-warming documentary contends, but they've been receding since the early 1900s at least — long before the planet began to warm.

Now that bit of fact-checking is looking a lot less convincing with the publication of a study on Tuesday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Lead author Lonnie Thompson, a glaciologist at Ohio State University who has been to the summit of Africa's tallest mountain repeatedly over more than a decade, says that while the glaciers did start melting a century ago, their retreat has sped up dramatically in recent years. "We've lost 26% of the ice since 2000 alone. And that, unfortunately, is just what we predicted would happen." Within a few decades, he says, most if not all of Kilimanjaro's glaciers will be gone. (Read "Gore in the Senate: A More Receptive Audience Now.")

That's not to say that Thompson's research is the final word on the debate. Indeed, glacier experts have been waging an intellectual war for years over what's really causing the ice loss atop Kilimanjaro. The simplest explanation would be that warming temperatures are making the ice melt — and indeed, Thompson believes this is a big part of what's going on.

But other scientists insist that melting, if it's occurring at all, has a relatively minor effect. "The fact that you have melting may mean air temperatures have increased, but it doesn't necessarily," says Philip Mote, who heads the Oregon Climate Change Research Institute at Oregon State University. "And in fact, the temperature on the summit of Kilimanjaro is essentially always below freezing, which makes it hard to accept warming as the reason [for glacier loss]."

The likelier explanation, he and others say, is a combination of factors, including changes in weather patterns. Fewer clouds and more sunlight would create a layer of warm air right at the glaciers' surface, which would cause some melting. But most of the ice loss, he suggests, is due to sublimation — that is, ice turning directly into water vapor with no intermediate step. That tends to happen when temperatures are cold and the air is extremely dry, which is the case at Kilimanjaro's higher-than-19,000-ft. summit (it's the same reason ice cubes slowly wilt away in a frost-free freezer). That happens all the time, but if there's less precipitation to build the glaciers back up, which may be the case here, the result is a net loss of ice. (See TIME's photo-essay "This Fragile Earth.")

Thompson agrees that this is a factor. "But the idea that at the end of the day, they're sitting in the mid-troposphere sublimating away is false. There are lakes on the surface of the glaciers," he says, noting that summit temperatures aren't so cold as to preclude the existence of water, "and when you drill down, the ice is saturated with water."

All of this back-and-forth might suggest on first blush that the scientists are arguing over whether global warming is even happening. That would be a mistake. While he doesn't think Thompson's case is proven, Mote has no doubt that the climate is changing and that humans are largely responsible; he just doesn't think Kilimanjaro's glaciers are being melted out of existence.

Still, even if Mote is right, that doesn't rule out global warming as a root cause of glacier retreat. Climate scientists have long maintained — and evidence from the real world is already confirming — that warming doesn't just result in higher temperatures. It also leads to changes in weather patterns, including more intense precipitation in some areas, more severe droughts in others (and sometimes, as in the case of the American Southeast, a little of both). And that may well be what's happening at Kilimanjaro. While strongly disputing Thompson's explanation, Georg Kaser of the Institut für Geographie in Innsbruck, Austria, writes that "we are confident that global warming is the ultimate driver of glacier shrinkage on Kilimanjaro due to the strong relation between Indian Ocean dynamics and East African precipitation."

In short, the answer to the question "Is it global warming or changes in weather patterns?" may be, simply, yes.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1934203,00.html#ixzz1mg6rCNm3

Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 9:22 PM, slim said:

So a politician says the glacier is increasing, and scientists say it is shrinking, but not as rapidly as before. So again, why does losing ice slower than was predicted get twisted into gaining ice?

QCjgyJZ.jpg

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Ukraine
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Posted (edited)
  On 2/17/2012 at 10:25 PM, Dakine10 said:

So a politician says the glacier is increasing, and scientists say it is shrinking, but not as rapidly as before. So again, why does losing ice slower than was predicted get twisted into gaining ice?

Why are there less hurricanes? Is global warming resting?

Any updates on those "glacier photos" we have 1993 and 2000, where is 2007? 2011?

why is Obama doingnothing about global warming, in fact he is wasting money which could be used for a good cause to feed his campaign contributors like Solyndra who then go out of business.

I mean the glaciers are going to melt or they are not and if they donlt and Obama has done nothing, you guys are gonna look foolish. Why is Obama doing nothing about this?

Edited by Gary and Alla

VERMONT! I Reject Your Reality...and Substitute My Own!

Gary And Alla

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Russia
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Posted

So... if it gets warmer it's global warming. If it gets colder... it's global warming.

Got it.

Русский форум член.

Ensure your beneficiary makes and brings with them to the States a copy of the DS-3025 (vaccination form)

If the government is going to force me to exercise my "right" to health care, then they better start requiring people to exercise their Right to Bear Arms. - "Where's my public option rifle?"

Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 10:43 PM, Gary and Alla said:

Why are there less hurricanes? Is global warming resting?

I think you are confused again, Gary. Al Gore said this. I'm not Al Gore. If you have a question for him, I suggest you contact him directly.

Honorable Al Gore

2100 West End Ave.

Suite 620, Nashville, TN 37203

  Quote

Any updates on those "glacier photos" we have 1993 and 2000, where is 2007? 2011?

Well again, I didn't post any pictures of glaciers, therefore I will not be providing you with updates. Perhaps you should ask Mr Big Dog directly if he has time for any more of your nonsense, or better yet look it up yourself.

  Quote

why is Obama doingnothing about global warming, in fact he is wasting money which could be used for a good cause to feed his campaign contributors like Solyndra who then go out of business.

Hoo boy. Again, I'm not actually Barack Obama, so I can't really answer a question about what he's thinking. If you wish to pursue this further, here you go:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

  Quote

I mean the glaciers are going to melt or they are not and if they donlt and Obama has done nothing, you guys are gonna look foolish. Why is Obama doing nothing about this?

I can't answer this one cause I'm not really sure what it is that you are asking. If you know what you meant, please clarify.

Now if you have a concern or question about something I actually posted, by all means feel free to ask.

QCjgyJZ.jpg

Country: Vietnam
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 10:58 PM, slim said:

So... if it gets warmer it's global warming. If it gets colder... it's global warming.

Got it.

And get this. If the weather stays the same it is due to GW. The idiots will claim any weather pattern means we are doomed. Hard to believe that there are so many morons that buy this crock but as you can see there are..whistling.gif

Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 10:58 PM, slim said:

So... if it gets warmer it's global warming. If it gets colder... it's global warming.

Got it.

If the mean global surface temperature increases, that means it (the globe) got warmer. If the mean global surface temperature decreases, that means the globe got cooler. Knowing that much is really prerequisite for any further discussion on the subject, but it's probably the main reason that people have difficulty with this.

Now if you get 12 inches of snow in your backyard, or the temperature at the top of Kilimanjaro drops below normal, that is whats known as localized weather phenomena, or in laymans terms, a snowstorm or cold spell. If you attempt to extrapolate localized weather phenomena to predict global temperature change, as many are wont to do, it will be apparent that you are in over your head.

QCjgyJZ.jpg

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Ukraine
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Posted (edited)

kilimanjaro.jpg

Discuss.

Can this be why they have been no hurricanes?

How about an update on those photos that were posted. Anything from 2008?

Edited by Gary and Alla

VERMONT! I Reject Your Reality...and Substitute My Own!

Gary And Alla

Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/17/2012 at 11:51 PM, Gary and Alla said:

kilimanjaro.jpg

Discuss.

Can this be why they have been no hurricanes?

How about an update on those photos that were posted. Anything from 2008?

Well I'm loathe to go and do your research for you, but if you're going to go on and on about it - well you know it's six of one, half dozen of the other, so here's one from 2009.

As you can see, not much snow, thus not much to discuss.

Kilimanjaro_KNY_GE1_17JUL2009_cropped-sm.jpg

QCjgyJZ.jpg

Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Ukraine
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Posted (edited)
  On 2/17/2012 at 11:08 PM, Dakine10 said:

I think you are confused again, Gary. Al Gore said this. I'm not Al Gore. If you have a question for him, I suggest you contact him directly.

Honorable Al Gore

2100 West End Ave.

Suite 620, Nashville, TN 37203

Well again, I didn't post any pictures of glaciers, therefore I will not be providing you with updates. Perhaps you should ask Mr Big Dog directly if he has time for any more of your nonsense, or better yet look it up yourself.

Hoo boy. Again, I'm not actually Barack Obama, so I can't really answer a question about what he's thinking. If you wish to pursue this further, here you go:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

I can't answer this one cause I'm not really sure what it is that you are asking. If you know what you meant, please clarify.

Now if you have a concern or question about something I actually posted, by all means feel free to ask.

:lol: In other words "Ask someone else I do not know anything" Right?

But thanks for doing my homework. I shan't return the favor, I promise.

Edited by Gary and Alla

VERMONT! I Reject Your Reality...and Substitute My Own!

Gary And Alla

Filed: Other Country: Russia
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Posted
  On 2/18/2012 at 12:16 AM, Gary and Alla said:

Ask someone else I do not know anything

Yes that's somewhat obvious, but big of you to admit it.

  Quote

But thanks for doing my homework. I shan't return the favor, I promise.

From the looks of it, your homework is makeing an #### of yourself. You don't need any help with that.

QCjgyJZ.jpg

 

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