When is a US passport not sufficient...

[Penguin_ie 5,992]

Nope, the US passport is sufficient. Below info is from USCIS for petitions:

If you are a U.S. citizen, you must demonstrate your status with:

A copy of your valid U.S. passport OR

A copy of your U.S. birth certificate OR

A copy of Consular Report of Birth Abroad OR

A copy of your naturalization certificate OR

A copy of your certificate of citizenship

Yup, I think I mixed it up with CRBA. Though even there, it talks about the naturalisation cert, not the citizenship cert, so maybe citizenship cert is never needed.

[NickD 202]

Tis strange how the DOS and USCIS operates for children that are automatically considered naturalized citizen. With a kid under 16 with the DOS have to send in all kinds of original documentation like permission from the other biological parent, if a woman with a different married name, previous marriage certificate and birth certificate to prove the kid is yours so they have a paper trail including the divorce papers and new marriage certificate. You already done that with the USCIS.

Then what happens if you don't do anything, the kid is still a green card holder, has to be renewed and forced to keep tabs with the USCIS about address changes. The one thing the N-600 does, it closes the door with the USCIS.

Had no problem bringing my wife here, free, white, pardon the expression, not intended to be racial, and over 18. Not so with my stepdaughter, first getting that biological permission for her to bring her daughter here, that was a battle, her ex didn't want his kid, but didn't want my wife to have her either. If that wasn't enough, needed his permission for his daughter to board the plane, refused to do that. Another court case to get that permission, but only good for one trip, period. Did have some luck, airport did barely accept her Venezuelan passport, Chavez just changed it, and the only way to get the new book was on the black market for something like 800 bucks. Then when she got here, her passport expired after about a year. Even with all those court orders, the Venezuelan consulate refused to issue her a new one without his permission. But if he did give it, would need his permission again to leave that country.

If that wasn't enough, was having a lot of problems with the USCIS in the ROC stages, stepdaughter wanted to apply for college with an expired green card and that crazy one year extension notice no one understands. She knew she didn't have a home in Venezuela and certainly didn't have a home here, turning 18 was a big step for her, but the biggest was getting her certificate of naturalization where she could apply for her own US passport and finally could make her own decisions in her life. That really changed her attitude.

I would think a lot more about your stepson than 600 bucks, that 600 bucks was nothing compared to what we spent to bring her over here and feeling to be a part of this country in all aspects means a lot. And that door with the USCIS is finally closed.

We don't make the laws, don't even have a say with them, but have to abide by them. And you also quickly learn your representatives don't represent you.

[v333k 59]

a US passport is all the proof you need. Unless someone requests a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate specifically, then a US passport will do just fine.

[nwctzn 55]

The one thing the N-600 does, it closes the door with the USCIS.

You keep on repeating "closing the door with the USCIS with the N-600" and I think I understand. However, the USCIS itself is recommending getting a US passport instead of the N-600 since it is more convenient and faster. As I indicated earlier in the thread, take a look at page 2 of USCIS Publication M-560.

As many times suggested before, get a passport book and a passport card. Store the passport card in a safe place as a back-up document for the case the passport book is lost, and your done. It is fast, it is cheap, and it is convenient.

Just for a reference, I checked the processing time for N-600 at the Raleigh-Durham office. They are still processing applications from December 2010! So the N-600 can be really a very very slow process and on top of it, it costs $600. On the other hand, the passport with routine service is currently shipped to you in around 4 weeks.

Edited February 14, 2012 by nwctzn

[Jupiter07 12]

You keep on repeating "closing the door with the USCIS with the N-600" and I think I understand. However, the USCIS itself is recommending getting a US passport instead of the N-600 since it is more convenient and faster. As I indicated earlier in the thread, take a look at page 2 of USCIS Publication M-560.

As many times suggested before, get a passport book and a passport card. Store the passport card in a safe place as a back-up document for the case the passport book is lost, and your done. It is fast, it is cheap, and it is convenient.

Just for a reference, I checked the processing time for N-600 at the Raleigh-Durham office. They are still processing applications from December 2010! So the N-600 can be really a very very slow process and on top of it, it costs $600. On the other hand, the passport with routine service is currently shipped to you in around 4 weeks.

I second that . NickD your situation is different and not applicable to everyone. My daughter is 16 and all I will do is get her a passport book and card. Period. She can make her decisions, she can travel, she can go to college, heck she now has a 10yr GC, I have no issues with parental permission, and all the huddles you went through. I even renewed her passport not long ago by just mailing it to the Embassy. And most importantly, the officer who interviewed me for my N400 told me that filing N600 is not required. So it's not just "saving" 600, it's about answering the question that the OP asked: is it necessary? The answer is, no.

The OP seems to in a the same straight forward situation.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Jupiter07

[mari&Ryan 93]

I wonder what some people would think if USCIS offers to give them a certificate of citizenship to their children that meet the requirements along with their own certificate of Naturalization in the Oath ceremony for FREE. And on the other hand to get a passport was $600 and you are not planing travel right away. I bet some of those would be the first saying that the Certificate of citizenship is more then enough proof of citizenship for them and since I don't have to travel in the near future I'm not paying $600 for a passport. Bottom line it's all a matter of money and nothing else. Everyone is free to do what they consider the best for them BUT I personally applied for everything for my child because is my responsibility to do it. They will be adults and you never know what might happens in the future.

[nwctzn 55]

I wonder what some people would think if USCIS offers to give them a certificate of citizenship to their children that meet the requirements along with their own certificate of Naturalization in the Oath ceremony for FREE. And on the other hand to get a passport was $600 and you are not planing travel right away. I bet some of those would be the first saying that the Certificate of citizenship is more then enough proof of citizenship for them and since I don't have to travel in the near future I'm not paying $600 for a passport. Bottom line it's all a matter of money and nothing else. Everyone is free to do what they consider the best for them BUT I personally applied for everything for my child because is my responsibility to do it. They will be adults and you never know what might happens in the future.

Well sure, it is your money, your time, your decision, your opinion. Everybody in this forum is expressing their opinions and one is totally free to choose. You can get N-600 only, you can get the passport card only, you can get the passport book only, or you can get all of them. Totally your personal choice.

What I tried to highlight is that USCIS is not forcing you to get the N-600. In its own publication, USCIS M-560, the USCIS says that the US passport is sufficient evidence of US citizenship.

Edited February 14, 2012 by nwctzn

[NickD 202]

I second that . NickD your situation is different and not applicable to everyone. My daughter is 16 and all I will do is get her a passport book and card. Period. She can make her decisions, she can travel, she can go to college, heck she now has a 10yr GC, I have no issues with parental permission, and all the huddles you went through. I even renewed her passport not long ago by just mailing it to the Embassy. And most importantly, the officer who interviewed me for my N400 told me that filing N600 is not required. So it's not just "saving" 600, it's about answering the question that the OP asked: is it necessary? The answer is, no.

The OP seems to in a the same straight forward situation.

Did say you have a choice, I had no choice as my stepdaughter barely turned 18, but if I did, it would be the same as it is now, the USCIS has her ten year card, my stepdaughter has her passport with her at college, and I have her certificate of naturalization locked up with her mothers in my safe.

Yes, both my wife and stepdaughter know where their certificates are and how to get into that safe.

Been a long humiliating experience for me dealing with the USCIS, never committed a crime, paid all of my taxes, served my country for six years long, am a veteran of a foreign war with honors, but was treated like ####### from those people. Just wanted to permanently end that relationship. But still going on with a six year petition for my stepson, I couldn't petition for him, was barely over 21, wife had that. Family values is not a part of the USCIS. They can take that 600+ bucks and choke on it for I care.

[maya62 7]

Thanks to everyone for their answers and opinions. Jupiter is right... our situation is straightforward... no issues. And he just turned 16.

And I would love it if our situation was: do we spend the $600 on a CofC or do we spend an extra 2 days at Disneyworld this spring? But it's not. The question is whether or not we spend $600 on a CofC or put it in his (too small) college fund.

So far no one has posted an instance where their child was adversely affected in any way by not having a Certificate of Citizenship, so I'm not getting all excited about throwing another $600 at Uncle Sam.

Thanks for all the responses!

Maya

ETA: Oh, and we do travel back to Nepal every other year (which is more often than we can afford!) so that, among other things, my husband and son can see their family, including our son's birth mother. So the passport is a necessity either way.

Edited February 14, 2012 by maya62

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

There are a few instances where a passport is not enough. Let's say the CIA would want to assassinate the Dalai Lama in India, but it has to look like it was done by a Chinese hit man. In that case a naturalized citizen who is originally from Nepal would be a perfect operative for this. In such a case the security clearance needed exceeds what can be done with a passport alone. So basically everything where you walk up to somebody and put a bullet in his brain from up close, all with the permission of the U.S. government who doesn't know anything about this in case something goes wrong.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Outside of Brother Hezekiel's rather bizarre example the only situation I can foresee where a passport wouldn't be sufficient, is if your son allowed his passport to expire and wanted to renew it several years later, but no longer had access to your citizenship certificate to submit with his passport application and show his derivative citizenship through you. Reasons for not having access to your proof of citizenship could be that your certificate is no longer accessible, either from the certificate being lost or destroyed and you not in the position to request for a new replacement, or that the two of you, for whatever reasons, have lost contact with each other and he can't find you to get your proof of citizenship.

While these situations are possible, they are also not probable (Brother Hezekiel's especially ), however I do know when I still worked for a Member of Parliament in Canada we dealt with a number of individuals in the situations I recounted. They had arrived with parents and received derivative citizenship through a parent, but the parent had died and the passport/citizenship documentation was not saved or couldn't be found; a parent had re-married and there was conflict with the new spouse and the adult children no longer knew where the parent lived, or a sibling had all of the parent's documentation and weren't on speaking terms with the person needing proof of citizenship. So, while getting the passport and passport card are sufficient for your son's needs at this time, it would still be a good idea for him eventually to obtain his own proof of citizenship. That way, he would be able to replace his own proof of citizenship if anything happened to it without having to have access to your citizenship documentation as well. You certainly don't need to do that now, but it should be on your future 'to do' list when finances are easier.

[NickD 202]

Don't know about you, but if I don't do things now, will never get done.

Like if I am working on a car with greasy hands and the postman comes with an important letter from the USCIS, wash my hands, scan that document, and safely file it away. If I toss it on the counter, either the cat or dog will get it or somehow get misplaced or pitched. Or coming home from a long tiring trip from an interview or oath ceremony, no watching TV, all of those documents had to be put back into their proper folders and safety stored away.

Nothing delights me more than having a closed file, that is when I can forget about it.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Kathryn,

when applying for a passport book and -- for $25 extra -- a passport card, then treating the passport card like one would treat a Certificate of Citizenship or Naturalization, meaning keeping it safe, ideally in a bank safe, after having scanned both documents and printed out 3 color copies . . . one has all the proof of U.S. citizenship needed, as the already issued U.S. passport(s) are proof that the U.S. Department of States exercised its due diligence in establishing the person's citizenship status. They know the applicant is a U.S. citizen, as all they have to look is at their documentation based on the number of the issued passport(s).

No extra certificate needed.