Denied b2 visa due to criminal records

[Dottielady 0]

Hi. I am new to the site and hoping someone can offer some knowledgeable help and/or advice regarding a B2 tourism visa. My husband and I both require visas, as we both have criminal records relating to the same crime. His is for theft from employer, mine is for, basically, handling stolen goods (although they call it something else now). The crime was committed in December 2007 and we were arrested in January 2008. My husband pleaded guilty in August 2008, but, as our crimes were related he had to wait to be sentenced until after my trial. we were eventually sentenced in March 2009. I received 100 hours community service and a four month suspended sentence, suspended for two years. My husband was given an eight month prison sentence, of which he served 10 weeks, in a category D prison.

We applied for a visa in October 2011, and were both denied. The consular officer verbally told us that it was because the convictions were too recent. I'm aware, now, that there is no minimum period that has to elapse after a conviction, however the CO we saw was particularly unhelpful about when would be advisable for us to reapply, saying only "I wouldnt suggest you come back tomorrow." Has anyone got any experience or sound advice about what might be a suitable length of time before reapplying? I'm thinking of later this year, but my husband thinks we should leave it a bit longer. The other confusion I have is that the document the CO gave us, at the time of our denial, stated that we were being denied under section 214b-not demonstrating strong enough ties. My husband works, although on a self employed basis, as a sub contact. He has been in consistent work for the last 3 years with the same company and effectively works as an employed person. I'm a housewife, with a baby son at home, but we also have two young boys at primary school. I am just about to start a midwifery course. I was born and bred in the town where we live and we have lots of strong friend and family ties here, many of whom have said they would be more than willing to write a character reference or whatever was required for us. We also part own a home with my parents, but, short of them writing a Letter to confirm, as the mortgage is solely in thier name, I don't have much proof otherwise. I wonder if we went back armed with the information above if that would be sufficient to grant us the visas? The first time we went we were pretty clueless and read only what the embassy required and didnt take anything additionally. What do you think our chances might be? We want to go to Florida and take our boys on a magical trip, and my mum and stepdad have offered us the opportunity. They would be taking us, and my brothers and step brothers and sisters away and would happily write a letter confirming their involvement and the guarantee that we would return. For your information this is our only offence ever (both of us) and we have visited America in excess of eight times in the past, including getting married in Florida.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

thanks.

[Boiler 45,942]

If you want to try again then wait a year.

On a more practical point there are nicer places to go.

[Noah Lot 391]

Hi. I am new to the site and hoping someone can offer some knowledgeable help and/or advice regarding a B2 tourism visa. My husband and I both require visas, as we both have criminal records relating to the same crime. His is for theft from employer, mine is for, basically, handling stolen goods (although they call it something else now). The crime was committed in December 2007 and we were arrested in January 2008. My husband pleaded guilty in August 2008, but, as our crimes were related he had to wait to be sentenced until after my trial. we were eventually sentenced in March 2009. I received 100 hours community service and a four month suspended sentence, suspended for two years. My husband was given an eight month prison sentence, of which he served 10 weeks, in a category D prison.

We applied for a visa in October 2011, and were both denied. The consular officer verbally told us that it was because the convictions were too recent. I'm aware, now, that there is no minimum period that has to elapse after a conviction, however the CO we saw was particularly unhelpful about when would be advisable for us to reapply, saying only "I wouldnt suggest you come back tomorrow." Has anyone got any experience or sound advice about what might be a suitable length of time before reapplying? I'm thinking of later this year, but my husband thinks we should leave it a bit longer. The other confusion I have is that the document the CO gave us, at the time of our denial, stated that we were being denied under section 214b-not demonstrating strong enough ties. My husband works, although on a self employed basis, as a sub contact. He has been in consistent work for the last 3 years with the same company and effectively works as an employed person. I'm a housewife, with a baby son at home, but we also have two young boys at primary school. I am just about to start a midwifery course. I was born and bred in the town where we live and we have lots of strong friend and family ties here, many of whom have said they would be more than willing to write a character reference or whatever was required for us. We also part own a home with my parents, but, short of them writing a Letter to confirm, as the mortgage is solely in thier name, I don't have much proof otherwise. I wonder if we went back armed with the information above if that would be sufficient to grant us the visas? The first time we went we were pretty clueless and read only what the embassy required and didnt take anything additionally. What do you think our chances might be? We want to go to Florida and take our boys on a magical trip, and my mum and stepdad have offered us the opportunity. They would be taking us, and my brothers and step brothers and sisters away and would happily write a letter confirming their involvement and the guarantee that we would return. For your information this is our only offence ever (both of us) and we have visited America in excess of eight times in the past, including getting married in Florida.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

thanks.

First, given the recent nature of the crime, no VO is going to overlook this for quite a while.

Second, no one, no relative, no friend, no congressman, no one at all can write a letter that 'guarantees' your behavior, willingness to depart the US, etc, because they have NO power or authority over you, and the VOs have no authority over them, so such a letter has zero value.

It is also quite possible that at least one of you is ineligible for life, for having committed a crime involving moral turpitude (CIMT)...sounds like possibly your husband...who, although sentenced to 8 months in prison, might have been sentenced for more...what matters is not the actual sentence, but what it could have been when determining a CIMT (in many cases).

All the VOs are going to see are a pair of recent criminals...reasons don't matter, character letters from friends are self serving and prove nothing, and at the end of the day, the VO has total and absolute authority to render a decision, without appeal. Our laws that control tourist visa issuance already have a part that presumes that an applicant will stay....thus, the interview does not start off in a neutral position. Moreover, the VOs are always concerned that people may use the next trip to the US to avoid more prosecution, or to 'start over' with a clean slate, away from the applicant's home country....you have to convince them otherwise...no one else can do this for you. Letters, etc, from anyone on the planet have absolutely no value whatsoever when applying for a tourist visa...no one can 'vouch' for you for the reason I mentioned earlier....no one in the US has any control over you and your actions.

And lastly, it is NOT the VOs responsibility to give you advice on when or how to apply and qualify for a visa.....that is not their job. Only the applicant has that responsibility....a VO cannot tell you that you cannot apply tomorrow, though it sounds like the one you dealt with warned you that an early reapplication will not be successful.

And, just in case you are wondering, paying an immigration attorney to draft an even more self serving letter on your behalf would only reduce your bank account; such letters are just about the most worthless thing in the world when it comes to offering reasons to a VO as to why one should be granted a visa....an immigration attorney's 'word' or opinion is about as valuable as those of TV evangelists...

As to how long you should wait, well, the first thing I would do is research your husband's conviction and find out how long he COULD HAVE BEEN imprisoned...if for more than one year, then you will likely face an enormous hurdle during a subsequent reapplication; if not, well, my comments above still stand.

[MatthewK 1]

When I was denied last october the CO told me to come back in a year, I still find this troubling because it's as you say likely to be an enormous hurdle due to the fact the maximum sentence is over 1 year. Even though I only got a fine. This deeply troubles me

[Dottielady 0]

I actually didn't know that the maximum possible sentence was taken into account for the crime. In fact, if anything, i would have thought the fact that we were given lesser sentences shows the nature and severity of what we did is possible less than others? Either way I am keen to apply again in a year ie: October 2012 and go furnished with more information to show what ties we have (even if they deem them not to be that strong). However, because of the cost involved in the process, I don't want to do it if there is literally no chance if us being accepted for some years. If you don't me asking, MatthewK what was your conviction for? You were lucky to be advised to return in a year, as I said we were not given any guidance. Whilst I accept that it is not a CO's job to have a friendly chitchat and offer advice, it wouldn't hurt to give, even a vague, idea of when an application might be more successful. I accept that the US has strict guidelines for entry and that they feel the need to be extremely thorough with visa applicants, but I don't feel it fair, or right that they will continually take an extortionate amount of money if, realistically, there is no chance we will be granted a visa. As I said, I'm hoping someone might have some personal experience of a denial and then retuning to be granted a visa after a timeframe, just to give me some hope, and some idea of a reasonable reapplication date.

[MatthewK 1]

Hey there, dont worry you are not alone in this state of confusion! my conviction is my first and only and all I got was a $600 fine, no jail, no suspened sentence, no community service or anything. The offence was 'assault occasioning bodily harm'. It absolutely sucks because all I was doing was defending myself from a gentleman who'd previously attacked me. But that doesnt really matter, what matters is the maximum penalty for that conviction is 7 years in prison

Even though the CO said to come back in a year, what guarantee's have I got that I will get the same guy again? Highly unlikely, I expect to go back in a years time and some other CO will tell me the same thing, come back in a year. Basically just so they can make another $160 or so. What they fail to realise is they are just damaging their own economy by not letting me in to spend tens of thousands of dollars of my money in their country. SIlly. very silly.

never the less, I will try again in a year and hopefully I will have more luck as he suggested, I really do

[N M 96]

Hey there, dont worry you are not alone in this state of confusion! my conviction is my first and only and all I got was a $600 fine, no jail, no suspened sentence, no community service or anything. The offence was 'assault occasioning bodily harm'. It absolutely sucks because all I was doing was defending myself from a gentleman who'd previously attacked me. But that doesnt really matter, what matters is the maximum penalty for that conviction is 7 years in prison

Even though the CO said to come back in a year, what guarantee's have I got that I will get the same guy again? Highly unlikely, I expect to go back in a years time and some other CO will tell me the same thing, come back in a year. Basically just so they can make another $160 or so. What they fail to realise is they are just damaging their own economy by not letting me in to spend tens of thousands of dollars of my money in their country. SIlly. very silly.

never the less, I will try again in a year and hopefully I will have more luck as he suggested, I really do

I'm 100% certain that they do realise - but simply don't care.

There's a pool of hundreds of millions of middle class people around the world willing to vacation in the U.S., and spend thousands of dollars doing so. The vast majority of whom don't have criminal convictions.

I'd wager there has been a very detailed study undertaken, with the results showing that the lost revenue from those who are denied, isn't material enough for the govt to care about - or doesn't outweigh the perceived risks of allowing entry. If that changed, you can bet the restrictions would be eased.

[Noah Lot 391]

I actually didn't know that the maximum possible sentence was taken into account for the crime. In fact, if anything, i would have thought the fact that we were given lesser sentences shows the nature and severity of what we did is possible less than others? Either way I am keen to apply again in a year ie: October 2012 and go furnished with more information to show what ties we have (even if they deem them not to be that strong). However, because of the cost involved in the process, I don't want to do it if there is literally no chance if us being accepted for some years. If you don't me asking, MatthewK what was your conviction for? You were lucky to be advised to return in a year, as I said we were not given any guidance. Whilst I accept that it is not a CO's job to have a friendly chitchat and offer advice, it wouldn't hurt to give, even a vague, idea of when an application might be more successful. I accept that the US has strict guidelines for entry and that they feel the need to be extremely thorough with visa applicants, but I don't feel it fair, or right that they will continually take an extortionate amount of money if, realistically, there is no chance we will be granted a visa. As I said, I'm hoping someone might have some personal experience of a denial and then retuning to be granted a visa after a timeframe, just to give me some hope, and some idea of a reasonable reapplication date.

the application fee is for the application and interview, with NO guarantee of success. VOs cannot 'prejudge' a case either; hence their vague statement about reapplying. As to what is or is not 'fair' from your perspective is irrelevant. Our laws are our laws....period. We owe nothing to anyone who applies for a visa other than an interview. Those who may have a checkered past likely created that checkered past; it is not the responsibility of a VO to overlook or dismiss any activity that might compromise the applicant's bona fides, whether said applicant agrees with that or not. And our visa laws are much more strict in many ways regarding criminal activity...the standard used to determine one's qualifications are far different than a court's...which is why, for example, a person who has served his/her time does not have a 'clean slate' when applying for a U.S. visa.....the only thing that matters is that a crime was committed and the severity of that crime as outlined in the Immigration & Nationality Act...as it relates to a crime involving moral turpitude (CIMT)...a VO cannot just look the other way if an applicant has been found guilty of such a crime, no matter if his/her arrest and/or incarceration was 'expunged' or 'forgiven' by their own country....it remains an issue.

[Noah Lot 391]

I'm 100% certain that they do realise - but simply don't care.

There's a pool of hundreds of millions of middle class people around the world willing to vacation in the U.S., and spend thousands of dollars doing so. The vast majority of whom don't have criminal convictions.

I'd wager there has been a very detailed study undertaken, with the results showing that the lost revenue from those who are denied, isn't material enough for the govt to care about - or doesn't outweigh the perceived risks of allowing entry. If that changed, you can bet the restrictions would be eased.

Quite true....I read last year that the worldwide refusal rate for tourist visas was something around 18% (roughly)...there would not be sizeable gain to our economy for allowing those folks to come here, assuming that every one of them would (a) depart when they were supposed to and (b) not engage in illegal employment....but that would be a HUGE assumption. Not every tourist who comes to the US spends thousands of dollars; many stay with relatives in their homes, so hotels aren't getting rich; they share meals with their relatives so restaurants are not getting rich (off of each one) so it would not be accurate to state that our economy would get an 18% boost by allowing all the refusees to travel...more than likely only about one sixth of these people would spend an inordinate sum of money (and many were probably refused because they had no discernible money to spend!)...so bottom line, the US can afford to be choosey.

And obtaining a tourist visa is a privilege, not a right.

[MatthewK 1]

A country that is how many trillion dollars in debt can afford to be choosey? Are you kidding me? Ok then...

[Noah Lot 391]

A country that is how many trillion dollars in debt can afford to be choosey? Are you kidding me? Ok then...

Yes we can. We have enough of our own criminals...we don't need to import more. The paltry dollars a relative handful of criminals might spend in the US is not enough to mean anything (versus other larger downside risks to our citizens and economy). Remind us all again...who committed a crime??? The VOs? (no) Our laws? (No)...hmmmm....who does that leave...???

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

A country that is how many trillion dollars in debt can afford to be choosey? Are you kidding me? Ok then...

Are you serious on this? The debt is not from lack of tourists... We don't need people to come here, spend $5, and then commit a crime, go to jail, and suck money for their trial, jail costs, deportation costs at our expense... We also don't need criminals to come here and harm our citizens in exchange for a few bucks.

I am not saying that you personally belong in this category, but your statement is incredibly short-sighted. Yes, the US can afford to be choosy. The US is not desperate for tourist dollars from criminals.

[MatthewK 1]

I just don't understand why there is no real grace for people having committed only one offense, almost the entire world has some forgiveness for it. Its just a touch unfair IMO.

[Boiler 45,942]

Pretty sure it would be no different if you wanted to visit Australia. Some countries are far more strict that the US.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I just don't understand why there is no real grace for people having committed only one offense, almost the entire world has some forgiveness for it. Its just a touch unfair IMO.

There is, but your offense is too recent. Not enough time has passed for everyone to know that it was a one-off. Your IO told you to come back in a year. That sounds like a sort of grace to me.