Mom Runs Burglars Off with Gun

[Dan and Judy 614]

Back to Vermont vs Wyoming which I find interesting.

according to a phone survey.

42% of households in Vermont have guns around

59.7% of households in Wyoming have guns around

31.7% is average for the nation

The Wyoming % is the highest in the nation. so you have a better chance of running into a gun

if you are breaking into a house in Wyoming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/interactives/guns/ownership.html

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Back to Vermont vs Wyoming which I find interesting.

according to a phone survey.

42% of households in Vermont have guns around

59.7% of households in Wyoming have guns around

31.7% is average for the nation

The Wyoming % is the highest in the nation. so you have a better chance of running into a gun

if you are breaking into a house in Wyoming.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/health/interactives/guns/ownership.html

If only that were what we are discussing.

Wyoming requires permits for carrying concealed firearms. Vermont does not. Where do you have a better chance of running into a gun on the street? What percentage of people in Wyoming carry concealed? What percentage in Vermont? No one knows in Vermont, least of all the criminals, but 100% of the people CAN legally carry firearms concealed in Vermont, while a very tiny percentage of people in Wyoming can. A pistol in the sock drawer does nothing to prevent crime on the street.

THAT is why Vermont has lower crime than Wyoming. It is possible Wyoming has a lower burglary rate, find out for us, will you? Vermont has a lower rate of violent crimes against persons and crime in general BECAUSE ...we can ALL be armed.

[Dan and Judy 614]

If only that were what we are discussing.

Wyoming requires permits for carrying concealed firearms. Vermont does not. Where do you have a better chance of running into a gun on the street? What percentage of people in Wyoming carry concealed? What percentage in Vermont? No one knows in Vermont, least of all the criminals, but 100% of the people CAN legally carry firearms concealed in Vermont, while a very tiny percentage of people in Wyoming can.

THAT is why Vermont has lower crime than Wyoming. It is possible Wyoming has a lower burglary rate, find out for us, will you?

You are wrong about needing a permit in Wyoming to carry a concealed gun.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/article_968f59ca-f3f7-538d-a878-556d3aeb26c4.html

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are wrong about needing a permit in Wyoming to carry a concealed gun.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/wyoming/article_968f59ca-f3f7-538d-a878-556d3aeb26c4.html

Great! I heard about that but forgot. Yes,they just recently copied our laws. I expect their crime to be further reduced, probably rivaling Vermont's soon.

Good news. More states need to do this.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I think there's five states that you don't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Alaska, Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming...and I can't remember the other one. All the rest of the states are Bolshevik states.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Great! I heard about that but forgot. Yes,they just recently copied our laws. I expect their crime to be further reduced, probably rivaling Vermont's soon.

Good news. More states need to do this.

It should come close to putting the argument to rest

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

It should come close to putting the argument to rest

Just don't look at Alaska's crime rate...

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

Dave, are you still doing your project? I have kind of kept this going for your benefit. We have here a classic anti-gun "non argument" The one where they say that "we" are wrong but offer no reasons for them being right. It is a simple denial of facts which is common on the anti-gun side. Simply throw out the "You're wrong!" accusation and that should be enough. If we persist they will say that WE ignore other facts but offer no facts. We are to believe that the crime rate is reduced by some magical unnamed factors. One proponent of this, when pressured here on VJ to give me a reason, said it was because of "Invisible unicorns" No kidding. Another says it is related to abortion rates. I NEVER challenge such arguments. Still trying to figure out if it is a lack of, or an abundance of, invisibale unicorns that keep us safe.

Another tactic is the fabrication of "data" They will ignore the FBI Uniform crime report used by every law enforcement agency as the measure of crime trends, and substitute somthing from the "Violence Policy Center" for example which does not consider a firearm to be useful in preventing crime UNLESS someone is shot or killed in self defense. This eliminates 90+% of all defensive firearms use (such as in the original article here) PLUS eliminates the deterent factor of people being armed in society.

You could probably print some of this for your study. Hope it helps.

Yeah....I just submitted the final paper today, and I have an oral presentation on it next week. It was a very enlightening project to say the least.

I noticed the common argument, and it is amazing how people will stick their head in the sand and ignore the statistics or fail to provide a valid cause. Even an argument that the reason for lower crime rates is because of tougher penalties for crimes committed with a firearm (Like Arlington VA.) would have shown some thought in the matter.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Just don't look at Alaska's crime rate...

Wyoming's new law took effect june 30, 2011. If Gary's theory is correct there will be a precipitous drop in the crime rate in Wyoming in 2011. I guess we have to wait for the statistics to come in.

I found a first quarter report that said

　

The number of Crime Index offenses reported by Wyoming law enforcement agencies during the first quarter of 2011 decreased 50.01 percent compared to the same quarter of 2010. Excluding arson, the Crime Index totaled 3,001 offenses during January-March, compared to 3,297 offenses in 2010. A total of 953 Index offenses were cleared during this 2011 reporting period, resulting in a clearance rate of 31.8 percent

the problem is, it says there was a 50% decrease in the first quarter which is before the new law took effect.

the other problem is I don't see how going from 3297 to 3001 is a 50% drop.

Maybe percent was not the word they were trying for?

http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/pdf/2011_First_Quarter_Report.pdf

[SuperDuper! 230]

I think there's five states that you don't need a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Alaska, Arizona, Vermont, Wyoming...and I can't remember the other one. All the rest of the states are Bolshevik states.

But that is more irrelevant now that a new federal bill recognizes CCW state permits across 35 states, so CCW holders can travel without the obstacle of each individual state's laws. It's just a matter of time. It's on the way. My linkhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/16/house-to-vote-on-concealed-firearm-permit-bill/

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Just don't look at Alaska's crime rate...

Alaska is in a total different scenario. Not only does this state have the highest alcohol consumption per capita, but isolation, long winters, etc.. have a lot to do with it. It's more heat of the moment here and not the usual gang banging thugs you have elsewhere. Alcoholism runs rampant in the bush were communities are cut off and isolated not to mention it's a well known fact the natives up here can't handle booze...they go nuts. That and the frontier mentality is still pretty common up here.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Why_Me

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

But that is more irrelevant now that a new federal bill recognizes CCW state permits across 35 states, so CCW holders can travel without the obstacle of each individual state's laws. It's just a matter of time. It's on the way. My linkhttp://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/16/house-to-vote-on-concealed-firearm-permit-bill/

Having to get a CCW permit in the first place is total bs. To have to get permission to pack a gun it equivalent to having to get on ones knees and beg for a Constitutional right as an American citizen. No American should have to get someone else permission to carry a firearm.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It should come close to putting the argument to rest

You mean that Ready4One will have to accept the facts? I doubt he ever will. The people who are anti-gun KNOW the facts, they just deny them and expect enough people to blindly believe them. There are plenty of them that STILL insist concealed carry will increase crime. We saw it this last summer when Wisconsin became the 49th state to allow concealed carry and we see it still in Illinois as the anti-gun people there tell Illinoisans..."You are the only people in the country that cannot handle freedom"

We will see in a couple years when the FBI Uniform Crime Reports for 2012 come out. (We can use 2011 if half a year makes a difference) Given that studies have shown that increases in the freedom of carrying firearms result in progressive crime reduction, I would expect the states that have joined Vermont in the last year to experience the same. Being that Vermont has the unique position of ALWAYS allowing concealed carry and has ALWAYS had a low crime rate, I welcome the addition of more Americans to the safety of being able to defend themselves. I expect, as it happened with non-discretionary concealed carry, that more and more states will join Vermont.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Wyoming's new law took effect june 30, 2011. If Gary's theory is correct there will be a precipitous drop in the crime rate in Wyoming in 2011. I guess we have to wait for the statistics to come in.

I found a first quarter report that said

　

The number of Crime Index offenses reported by Wyoming law enforcement agencies during the first quarter of 2011 decreased 50.01 percent compared to the same quarter of 2010. Excluding arson, the Crime Index totaled 3,001 offenses during January-March, compared to 3,297 offenses in 2010. A total of 953 Index offenses were cleared during this 2011 reporting period, resulting in a clearance rate of 31.8 percent

the problem is, it says there was a 50% decrease in the first quarter which is before the new law took effect.

the other problem is I don't see how going from 3297 to 3001 is a 50% drop.

Maybe percent was not the word they were trying for?

http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/pdf/2011_First_Quarter_Report.pdf

You will have to wait until 2012 numbers come out. I am not worried.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Just don't look at Alaska's crime rate...

Why not? First of all Alaska's law is new enough that we cannot tell an effect from it yet. But I will be glad to review the crime rate in Alaska after the new law has had time to take effect. Do you think crime will increase? I don't.

Vermont has had a long time to establish a polite armed society, it is going to take Alaska some time to do the same. I do not think you would require or expect an immediate drastic change if any other crime prevention measure were implemented, why for this one? I look for the crime rate to go DOWN, which is a good thing. As long as it heads down...I win! You win and even Ready4One wins.