sad times

[danile 0]

Hi,

My husband is just coming here in few days so I'm sure it will be a culture shock for him as well. (so i'm prepared mentally to be patient as much as I can)...You're story sounds very normal when it comes to marriage of foreginer to a middle eastern. Acually my mother's friend married a men from Iran and beginings of their marriage were excattly how u discribe yours. Do you have any children? They have two daughters and one son. I think children make a huge difference for them, especially a son. Their oldest daughter is my age and just got married (to an american) but they make it, somehow they made it work and she did not convert, actually he was the one that accepted the wifes faith. (this is rare) The middle eastern culture is very difficult to "break in", especially if they were raised and lived there for years. I pray that we will manage and make it.

In Egypt, the man is "the man", a woman is for making babies and cooking, basically...and in the usa "the man of the house" sometimes is a woman. A lot of desicions here are done by women. It also depends on his upbrining. My husband has lived alone for over many years, he has been doing his own loundry and cooking. Also, when i went there he was doing my loundry and wanted to cook:) ...so it would be great if he wants to do it here lol.

But thats not really a concern for me. The cultural beliefs are different in some way. Are you the same religious belief? I'm also worried about him adjusting here and making friends; he is coming with automatic belife that people here do not like arabs. These thoughts are not good way to start a new life in foregn country. But I really feel that my husband will adjust. I'm also an immigrant from another europe, but i came when i was 12 years old so the transition was a child is easier than an adult. It did take me around 2 years to begining to like it and "fit it".

Also, him saying that marrying you has ruined his life...I would say do not take it personally. My husband and I fight over the phone and sometimes when you're upset things are said out of anger (or depression) that you do not necessarily mean to say and later on everything is good again. You mentioned he might be depressed,which could be possible, so as a depressed person he is not happy with himself and will say things to you because of it. If he really felt he made a mistake he would already divorced you and went back to egypt or started to look for someone else. so i really think he doesn't mean it he is just unhappy with himself. Have you tried maybe traveling with him within usa or out? or do some sort of activities...joining the gym, some classes....???? Whatever he liked to do in Egypt maybe he can try doing it here? Good luck.

A lot of what you are saying rings true. Thanks for responding. We don't have kids and as for religion I am spiritual but of no denomination. The travel thing would be great , the best time we ever had was the one time we were on vacation it was amazingly peaceful and fun.

[NY_BX 397]

Hi,

My husband is just coming here in few days so I'm sure it will be a culture shock for him as well. (so i'm prepared mentally to be patient as much as I can)...You're story sounds very normal when it comes to marriage of foreginer to a middle eastern. Acually my mother's friend married a men from Iran and beginings of their marriage were excattly how u discribe yours. Do you have any children? They have two daughters and one son. I think children make a huge difference for them, especially a son. Their oldest daughter is my age and just got married (to an american) but they make it, somehow they made it work and she did not convert, actually he was the one that accepted the wifes faith. (this is rare) The middle eastern culture is very difficult to "break in", especially if they were raised and lived there for years. I pray that we will manage and make it.

In Egypt, the man is "the man", a woman is for making babies and cooking, basically...and in the usa "the man of the house" sometimes is a woman. A lot of desicions here are done by women. It also depends on his upbrining. My husband has lived alone for over many years, he has been doing his own loundry and cooking. Also, when i went there he was doing my loundry and wanted to cook:) ...so it would be great if he wants to do it here lol.

But thats not really a concern for me. The cultural beliefs are different in some way. Are you the same religious belief? I'm also worried about him adjusting here and making friends; he is coming with automatic belife that people here do not like arabs. These thoughts are not good way to start a new life in foregn country. But I really feel that my husband will adjust. I'm also an immigrant from another europe, but i came when i was 12 years old so the transition was a child is easier than an adult. It did take me around 2 years to begining to like it and "fit it".

Also, him saying that marrying you has ruined his life...I would say do not take it personally. My husband and I fight over the phone and sometimes when you're upset things are said out of anger (or depression) that you do not necessarily mean to say and later on everything is good again. You mentioned he might be depressed,which could be possible, so as a depressed person he is not happy with himself and will say things to you because of it. If he really felt he made a mistake he would already divorced you and went back to egypt or started to look for someone else. so i really think he doesn't mean it he is just unhappy with himself. Have you tried maybe traveling with him within usa or out? or do some sort of activities...joining the gym, some classes....???? Whatever he liked to do in Egypt maybe he can try doing it here? Good luck.

Great points you bring. I also got my fiance a 6 month gym membership and we enrolled in the NY conservatory since we're both musicians. Exploring your common interests will probably rest your mind from highlighting the differences.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

, I used to post here many years ago as we went through the torture of getting a visa through cairo. I am posting under an anonymous name as it would cause additional strife if I were voicing these problems in a forum. My husband is here now with me - we have built a nice life together - both have cars, bought a house, he got a decent job. But since day one it has been a struggle of views and culture. I am expected to do everything although he is not critical if things don't get done. His only responsibility he has excepted is to take out the garbage once a week and work 40 plus hours. I too work full time and take on additional work.

The main problem is communication if anything is discussed about politics or religion all hell breaks loose. We end up in huge fights/arguments. Its stupid @# %$^^$% #### o but I am to the point i don't want to talk about anything for fear it will start a battle. I feel he has depression since he came and have spoken to him about this. If he is not at work he is in bed on the computer - he has a hard time making friends and is critical of everyone as being not up to his moral standards. Its so hard to express this in a post as it comes off sounding so simplistic and there are two sides to every story.

I also am tired of carring all the weight of the household form cookin,laundry car care and the house repairs! I have to do everything he is unwilling and by this many years I dont see it changing.

The latest overcast on our relationship is he's a "faliure" compared to his friends in egypt and he ruined his life by marrying me - but it doesn't matter now cause its to late to go home as its to late to rebuild his career to where he left. Im sad I can't take it anymore there have been great times and horrible times but to me it feels like the final straw that I am the default result. I don't know what I am wanting by posting this perhaps others have had similar situations in there mena relationships and found away to improve the situation or how do you know when to part ways

This sounds familiar and I can relate somewhat. Here are my suggestions.

Tell him you are unhappy and reaching your end. Tell him the reasons why you are unhappy that you have listed here and talk about as calmly as you can. Tell him that change needs to happen and it needs to come from him because it can't come from you.

You work too and he can share in the chores and cooking unless you're planning to stay home full-time and he'll be the sole provider. Have you talked about these things? His blaming you for his failure is a projection. While it has more to do how he feels about himself than it does with how he feels about you those words still sting. Tell him that it hurts you and he shouldn't say these unkind things to you. He needs to know this.

Tell him he needs to get out of the house more and find some friends. Point out how many years he's spent living his life online. Example: You've spent "2" years of your life online when you could be doing x, y, z. This is not a life and it is unhealthy. There are plenty of good people at the local Islamic center if he is willing to attend Friday prayers. I find it difficult to believe he hasn't found a handful of friends there in all his time here.

Ask him to clarify what it is he wants to do with his life? Help evaluate if his goals are reasonable. Help him look at alternatives to achieving his goals and define reasonable goals.

One simple suggestion to getting him out of the house if he is not very active and improving quality of life. Ask him to go on walks with you for 30-60 minutes 5 times a week. It will be good for the relationship and help lift both your moods afterwards.

As for the politics and religion and having opinions on Egypt. I know it is difficult to not contribute to a conversation or have a reaction. It is even more difficult to be still and observe your own internal reaction about the subject and let it pass as to avoid a conflict with grace. The only thing I can suggest for these times is try to find some common ground. I find it helpful when we approach a subject by asking them what they mean by something or to explain it to you like they would a child. It can be a very enriching experience when they begin to show and teach us various sides of their culture. Sometimes it is very difficult to hear or learn new things about a subject where we have come to feel a certain way but try to remain open to learning more and soon it won't feel so abrasive.

Growth is sometimes painful in relationships. This is why they are called growing pains. You may grow together or you may grow apart and how we choose to react determines our path. If you know you both love each other then choose to grow together. Though it may be more painful at times it can be very rewarding when you get to mutual respect and a deeper trust in each other. That being said sometimes one person will choose not to grow together anymore and will decided they want to grow apart. It only takes one person in the relationship to do that. Have the serious heart-to-heart with him and reaffirm your commitment to each other and what your goals as a couple are so know where you are heading. Also after the talk if it is not resolved immediately give it some room to breath so you both have time to think about it. Even if for a few hours but don't delay the resolution too long that you both become more miserable.

[habibi83 12]

I feel you completely. The freaking rhetoric of "a man is a man" makes me SICK! NO! If a man has balls, he will do the impossible to make a woman- or a loved one- happy. Period. My fiance is egyptian, as you may observe. I kid you not I did the following: I brought an entire suitcase of clothes for him. They were incredibly disorganized! What a mess! Of course, I did it on purpose. I wanted to see what was he going to do once he said "thank you baby." Well, he took piece by piece and folded them neatly as I laid on the bed next to him. I didn't lift a finger. I simply watched him reorganize everything. He took hangers and organized everything by color and type of clothing. He didn't even ask for help. He didn't even look at me. He had a smile on his face and he did it perfectly. After that, I saw how he helped his mom in the kitchen and how he cleaned the bedroom. He cleaned the carpet and mop the floor. On another visit we went to Cairo together. He had his hotel room; I had mine. When I settled I visited his room. Everything was impecable, everything. I knew he was an incredibly organized man and that convinced me he's husband material. Yes, ladies, men SHOULD be evaluated too. The idea that we're the only ones that should be clean is outrageous!

Now on to the serious issue: different ideals. This is a very touchy issue... and serious. He is muslim; I am anti-religion. But that's where our differences in ideals and belief systems end. He's participated in political panels with amnesty international and I've heard him bring his point. That's how we met and that's how we fell in love. I am a strong activist in liberal politics, working in arts and entertainment. He knows that. He's a feminist and a radical liberal against sharia law. I know that. So, because that's our job, we agree to disagree. Yes, we've had heated debates. Granted, he hasn't arrived to NY. Things may change. I am prepared for that, however. I've changed infrastructure, adjusted some minor lifestyle behaviors (drinking less alcohol, for example) and done other things to make him comfortable. Under the same token, he MUST do the same. He's shown a critical need to learn Spanish- my family's native language- and is already studying the subway maps.

All this said, it's all about compromising. But if you live with a chauvinist narcissist that throws everything to a woman, it makes it almost impossible. Remember, men are not men just because they have a ####### and testosterone. In case you didn't know, women also have testosterone and men have estrogen! WOMEN raise chauvinists. We reinforce the submissive behavior. The best way to know how a man will be, is by meeting his mom. I did and that's how I got convinced I met my future husband.

I really really wish the best for you. I'm not gonna give you advise on what to do, other than change comes from within. Be his mirror. Stop cleaning the house for a week and see what happens. I know is disgusting and I know I would give up and start cleaning. But I also have a choice to pick up and leave and let him live with the filth for that week. I can guarantee 2 things will happen: the house will be spotless or he's back in Egypt. LOL! Do not settle for less than what you deserve. It doesn't mean you failed. It means God has something better for you in the future.

Good luck!

He is learingin Spanish....that is awsome!!! I will be cooking Polish food for my husband (no pork of course).

[habibi83 12]

A lot of what you are saying rings true. Thanks for responding. We don't have kids and as for religion I am spiritual but of no denomination. The travel thing would be great , the best time we ever had was the one time we were on vacation it was amazingly peaceful and fun.

Try going again you mentioned you have been married for few years...maybe it's time for little Mohammeds:) that would definitly get him off the computer he will have something more important to look forward to in life.

[msheesha 548]

This sounds familiar and I can relate somewhat. Here are my suggestions.

Tell him you are unhappy and reaching your end. Tell him the reasons why you are unhappy that you have listed here and talk about as calmly as you can. Tell him that change needs to happen and it needs to come from him because it can't come from you.

You work too and he can share in the chores and cooking unless you're planning to stay home full-time and he'll be the sole provider. Have you talked about these things? His blaming you for his failure is a projection. While it has more to do how he feels about himself than it does with how he feels about you those words still sting. Tell him that it hurts you and he shouldn't say these unkind things to you. He needs to know this.

Tell him he needs to get out of the house more and find some friends. Point out how many years he's spent living his life online. Example: You've spent "2" years of your life online when you could be doing x, y, z. This is not a life and it is unhealthy. There are plenty of good people at the local Islamic center if he is willing to attend Friday prayers. I find it difficult to believe he hasn't found a handful of friends there in all his time here.

Ask him to clarify what it is he wants to do with his life? Help evaluate if his goals are reasonable. Help him look at alternatives to achieving his goals and define reasonable goals.

One simple suggestion to getting him out of the house if he is not very active and improving quality of life. Ask him to go on walks with you for 30-60 minutes 5 times a week. It will be good for the relationship and help lift both your moods afterwards.

As for the politics and religion and having opinions on Egypt. I know it is difficult to not contribute to a conversation or have a reaction. It is even more difficult to be still and observe your own internal reaction about the subject and let it pass as to avoid a conflict with grace. The only thing I can suggest for these times is try to find some common ground. I find it helpful when we approach a subject by asking them what they mean by something or to explain it to you like they would a child. It can be a very enriching experience when they begin to show and teach us various sides of their culture. Sometimes it is very difficult to hear or learn new things about a subject where we have come to feel a certain way but try to remain open to learning more and soon it won't feel so abrasive.

Growth is sometimes painful in relationships. This is why they are called growing pains. You may grow together or you may grow apart and how we choose to react determines our path. If you know you both love each other then choose to grow together. Though it may be more painful at times it can be very rewarding when you get to mutual respect and a deeper trust in each other. That being said sometimes one person will choose not to grow together anymore and will decided they want to grow apart. It only takes one person in the relationship to do that. Have the serious heart-to-heart with him and reaffirm your commitment to each other and what your goals as a couple are so know where you are heading. Also after the talk if it is not resolved immediately give it some room to breath so you both have time to think about it. Even if for a few hours but don't delay the resolution too long that you both become more miserable.

I agree with a lot of the above, and would make one suggestion - put it in a letter to him and leave it for him for when you will be gone for the whole day. It will allow you time and peace to get all of your feelings expressed without any interruption and potential for arguments & it will allow him time to process and think things through.

[NY_BX 397]

Try going again you mentioned you have been married for few years...maybe it's time for little Mohammeds:) that would definitly get him off the computer he will have something more important to look forward to in life.

I don't necessarily believe this is true, espcially is she ends up having little girls. This is not a good time to talk kids, let alone conceive them.

[msheesha 548]

I don't necessarily believe this is true, espcially is she ends up having little girls. This is not a good time to talk kids, let alone conceive them.

Amen - having children will NOT solve marital relationship problems, only compound & complicate them!!!

[NY_BX 397]

He is learingin Spanish....that is awsome!!! I will be cooking Polish food for my husband (no pork of course).

It's awesome! The vowels are pronounced the same in Spanish and in arabic, so he has that nailed down. If only he could read it.....

[Golden Gate 530]

He is learingin Spanish....that is awsome!!! I will be cooking Polish food for my husband (no pork of course).

Hey, do you have a good,no pork recipe for galumpki? I would like to have it, I miss is so much!

[habibi83 12]

I don't necessarily believe this is true, espcially is she ends up having little girls. This is not a good time to talk kids, let alone conceive them.

Well, yeah with a little girl it could get more complicated do to his religious beliefs...But they already married knowing this... Also, from what I was told about the Egyptian culture, is that when men marries is to start a family, (that's one of the main reasons)...so maybe he feels like a failure because he doesn't have any children yet, (I don't know his age) but back home his friends probably already have families of their own...it sounds like they have everything financially: house, cars...so they are financially set for that responsibility. It's only a suggestion for many couple children make a huge difference and bring them closer together.

Edited February 2, 2012 by habibi83

[habibi83 12]

, I used to post here many years ago as we went through the torture of getting a visa through cairo. I am posting under an anonymous name as it would cause additional strife if I were voicing these problems in a forum. My husband is here now with me - we have built a nice life together - both have cars, bought a house, he got a decent job. But since day one it has been a struggle of views and culture. I am expected to do everything although he is not critical if things don't get done. His only responsibility he has excepted is to take out the garbage once a week and work 40 plus hours. I too work full time and take on additional work.

The main problem is communication if anything is discussed about politics or religion all hell breaks loose. We end up in huge fights/arguments. Its stupid @# %$^^$% #### o but I am to the point i don't want to talk about anything for fear it will start a battle. I feel he has depression since he came and have spoken to him about this. If he is not at work he is in bed on the computer - he has a hard time making friends and is critical of everyone as being not up to his moral standards. Its so hard to express this in a post as it comes off sounding so simplistic and there are two sides to every story.

I also am tired of carring all the weight of the household form cookin,laundry car care and the house repairs! I have to do everything he is unwilling and by this many years I dont see it changing.

The latest overcast on our relationship is he's a "faliure" compared to his friends in egypt and he ruined his life by marrying me - but it doesn't matter now cause its to late to go home as its to late to rebuild his career to where he left. Im sad I can't take it anymore there have been great times and horrible times but to me it feels like the final straw that I am the default result. I don't know what I am wanting by posting this perhaps others have had similar situations in there mena relationships and found away to improve the situation or how do you know when to part ways

For me politics personally is one topic i could careless about. I have my opinion and he has his...I believe politics over all is bunch of b..s..if its here or egypt! it's so not worth arguing over;

[NY_BX 397]

Well, yeah with a little girl it could get complicated...But from what I was told about their culture when men marries is to start a family...so maybe he feels like a failure because he doesn't have any children yet...it sounds like they have everything, house, cars...so they are financially set. It's only a suggestion for many couple children make a huge difference and bring them closer together.

That's exactly the problem. Why does she has to fulfill his goals? Why are we trying to cater to his needs and not hers? This make me sick! He moved here- he's the one that needs to adjust.

Everyone- with genuine intentions- marries to start a family. That's what a marriage is: a family. Children do not bring couples together. Children force adults to become more responsible, including becoming more civil to each other. In fact, there are numerous couples that put off separation, or divorce, because of children. Then, the children grow in a hostile environment, which makes matters worse. In a case like this, where there are differences in ideals, the last thing you may want is to have children. So, what are you teaching them?

We talked about that extensively. We both agreed that they'll learn from all religions- except satanic- and they will get to choose. The choices include atheism and spiritual, but not religious. This also goes with politics, although we'll be highly disappointed if any of my kids become a republican conservative. I rather they'd be satanic.

[habibi83 12]

Hey, do you have a good,no pork recipe for galumpki? I would like to have it, I miss is so much!

i need to find it:) lol Egyptian eating Polish/American/Egyptian mixture of food; this will be very interesting once my husband comes:) Pierogies, burgers and koftas! all the way...

[Ludyous 5]

I feel you completely. The freaking rhetoric of "a man is a man" makes me SICK! NO! If a man has balls, he will do the impossible to make a woman- or a loved one- happy. Period. My fiance is egyptian, as you may observe. I kid you not I did the following: I brought an entire suitcase of clothes for him. They were incredibly disorganized! What a mess! Of course, I did it on purpose. I wanted to see what was he going to do once he said "thank you baby." Well, he took piece by piece and folded them neatly as I laid on the bed next to him. I didn't lift a finger. I simply watched him reorganize everything. He took hangers and organized everything by color and type of clothing. He didn't even ask for help. He didn't even look at me. He had a smile on his face and he did it perfectly. After that, I saw how he helped his mom in the kitchen and how he cleaned the bedroom. He cleaned the carpet and mop the floor. On another visit we went to Cairo together. He had his hotel room; I had mine. When I settled I visited his room. Everything was impecable, everything. I knew he was an incredibly organized man and that convinced me he's husband material. Yes, ladies, men SHOULD be evaluated too. The idea that we're the only ones that should be clean is outrageous!

Now on to the serious issue: different ideals. This is a very touchy issue... and serious. He is muslim; I am anti-religion. But that's where our differences in ideals and belief systems end. He's participated in political panels with amnesty international and I've heard him bring his point. That's how we met and that's how we fell in love. I am a strong activist in liberal politics, working in arts and entertainment. He knows that. He's a feminist and a radical liberal against sharia law. I know that. So, because that's our job, we agree to disagree. Yes, we've had heated debates. Granted, he hasn't arrived to NY. Things may change. I am prepared for that, however. I've changed infrastructure, adjusted some minor lifestyle behaviors (drinking less alcohol, for example) and done other things to make him comfortable. Under the same token, he MUST do the same. He's shown a critical need to learn Spanish- my family's native language- and is already studying the subway maps.

All this said, it's all about compromising. But if you live with a chauvinist narcissist that throws everything to a woman, it makes it almost impossible. Remember, men are not men just because they have a ####### and testosterone. In case you didn't know, women also have testosterone and men have estrogen! WOMEN raise chauvinists. We reinforce the submissive behavior. The best way to know how a man will be, is by meeting his mom. I did and that's how I got convinced I met my future husband.

I really really wish the best for you. I'm not gonna give you advise on what to do, other than change comes from within. Be his mirror. Stop cleaning the house for a week and see what happens. I know is disgusting and I know I would give up and start cleaning. But I also have a choice to pick up and leave and let him live with the filth for that week. I can guarantee 2 things will happen: the house will be spotless or he's back in Egypt. LOL! Do not settle for less than what you deserve. It doesn't mean you failed. It means God has something better for you in the future.

Good luck!

I totally agree with you! Well said!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Ludyous