Is this how our Universal Care will operate?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

$850 rent is low income housing?

Probably in Vermont.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Probably in Vermont.

Maybe so.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Free is never free.

No but the "free" which isn't really free is a hell of a lot cheaper than the BS that passes for a healthcare system in the US. The only people that have a cheaper healthcare system than our peers in other developed countries are the millions of freeloaders that dump their healthcare cost on everyone else. Which is another upside of a universal healthcare system - it puts an end to freeloading and promotes - or rather dictates - personal responsibility.

[Neonred 3,562]

So who will pay for this universal healthcare? The 50% that currently pay Federal taxes or everyone? If everyone, then will they guy making 20k pay the same as the guy making 200k? And will the coverage be the same? Will we be able to expect the same efficiency and competency from this new bureaucracy that we have come to expect from USCIS or SSA?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The 50% that currently pay Federal taxes or everyone?

You need to get informed. There's a much higher percentage of people paying federal taxes. Tune out the hype and take in some reality for a change.

[Neonred 3,562]

You need to get informed. There's a much higher percentage of people paying federal taxes. Tune out the hype and take in some reality for a change.

Sorry, I meant to say federal INCOME tax. Just checked, and the number is 46%.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Sorry, I meant to say federal INCOME tax. Just checked, and the number is 46%.

Don't worry. After Obama the Socialist is done the percentage should be a lot more.

[웃 910]

Sorry, I meant to say federal INCOME tax. Just checked, and the number is 46%.

That number has been debunked.

the 51 percent figure, its significance, and its policy implications are widely misunderstood.

• The 51 percent figure is an anomaly that reflects the unique circumstances of 2009, when the recession greatly swelled the number of Americans with low incomes and when temporary tax cuts created by the 2009 Recovery Act — including the "Making Work Pay" tax credit and an exclusion from tax of the first $2,400 in unemployment benefits — were in effect. Together, these developments removed millions of Americans from the federal income tax rolls. Both of these temporary tax measures have since expired. In a more typical year, 35 percent to 40 percent of households owe no federal income tax. In 2007, the figure was 37.9 percent. [2]
• The 51 percent figure covers only the federal income tax and ignores the substantial amounts of other federal taxes — especially the payroll tax — that many of these households pay . As a result, it greatly overstates the share of households that do not pay any federal taxes. Data from the Urban Institute-Brookings Tax Policy Center show only about 14 percent of households paid neither federal income tax nor payroll tax in 2009, despite the high unemployment and temporary tax cuts that marked that year.[3]
• This percentage would be even lower if federal excise taxes on gasoline and other items were taken into account.
• Most of the people who pay neither federal income tax nor payroll taxes are low-income people who are elderly, unable to work due to a serious disability, or students, most of whom subsequently become taxpayers. (In a year like 2009, this group also includes a significant number of people who have been unemployed the entire year and cannot find work.)
• Moreover, low-income households as a whole do, in fact, pay federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data show that the poorest fifth of households as a group paid an average of 4 percent of their incomes in federal taxes in 2007 (the latest year for which these data are available), not an insignificant amount given how modest these households' incomes are — the poorest fifth of households had average income of $18,400 in 2007. [4]The next-to-the bottom fifth — those with incomes between $20,500 and $34,300 in 2007 — paid an average of 10 percent of their incomes in federal taxes.
• Even these figures understate low-income households' total tax burden, because these households also pay substantial state and local taxes. Data from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy show that the poorest fifth of households paid a stunning 12.3 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes in 2010.[5]
• When all federal, state, and local taxes are taken into account,the bottom fifth of households paid 16.3 percent of their incomes in taxes, on average, in 2010. The second-poorest fifth paid 20.7 percent. [6]

It also is important to consider who the people are who don't owe federal income tax in a given year.

• Some 70 percent of people who owe no federal income tax in a given year are low-income working households. These people do pay payroll taxes, as well as federal excise taxes (and, as noted, state and local taxes). Most of these working households also pay federal income tax in other years, when their incomes are higher — which can be seen by looking at the low-income working households that receive the Earned Income Tax Credit (see next bullet).
• The majority of EITC recipients receive the credit for only one or two years at a time, such as when their incomes drop due to a temporary layoff; they pay federal income tax in other years. In fact, EITC recipients paymuch more in federal income taxes over time than they receive in EITC benefits. A leading study of this issue found that taxpayers who claimed the EITC at least once during an 18-year period paid a net $473 billion in federal income tax over that period (in 2006 dollars). [7] This finding shows that — while in any single year some taxpayers will receive refundable tax credits whose value may exceed their payroll tax liability — EITC recipients as a group pay significant federal income taxes over time in addition to the payroll and state and local taxes they pay each year.
• The fact that most people who do not pay federal income tax in a given year do pay substantial amounts of other taxes, and also are net federal income taxpayers over time, belies the claim that households that don't owe income tax will form bad policy judgments because they ostensibly "don't have any skin in the game."
• The federal tax system is progressive overall, but state and local tax systems are regressive and undo a significant share of that progressivity. There is nothing wrong with having one part of the overall tax system shield low- and moderate-income households, who pay substantial amounts of other taxes and who generally pay federal income tax as well in other years.

http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=3505

Don't worry. After Obama the Socialist is done the percentage should be a lot more.

Don't worry, Obama is doing a FANTASTIC JOB of creating jobs. Isn't that a good thing?

Edited February 3, 2012 by ☠

[kytwell 179]

I don't know enough about Federal taxes or income taxes and what not. But as a head of household, father of 3, making 80k a year, I am supposed to be getting a federal tax return of about 15k; which amounts to an effective tax rate of -8%(negative).

For other info 12k a year to childcare, evening classes at the local college working on a Master's degree and mortgage interest.

I will say this is the first year I have on my W4 declared: married, but withhold at the higher single rate with 0 exemptions. In years past I usually owed a 100 dollars or got back a 100 and the effective tax rate was roughly 5-6%. No idea, maybe turbo tax has made an error? So, I'm going to check with an accountant, it doesn't make sense that I can get back more than was withheld.

[웃 910]

I don't know enough about Federal taxes or income taxes and what not. But as a head of household, father of 3, making 80k a year, I am supposed to be getting a federal tax return of about 15k; which amounts to an effective tax rate of -8%(negative).

For other info 12k a year to childcare, evening classes at the local college working on a Master's degree and mortgage interest.

I will say this is the first year I have on my W4 declared: married, but withhold at the higher single rate with 0 exemptions. In years past I usually owed a 100 dollars or got back a 100 and the effective tax rate was roughly 5-6%. No idea, maybe turbo tax has made an error? So, I'm going to check with an accountant, it doesn't make sense that I can get back more than was withheld.

TURBO TAX FTW!!!!!!

[slim 1,525]

wth? you're screwing yourself out of $$$

How so?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, I'm going to check with an accountant, it doesn't make sense that I can get back more than was withheld.

A lot of people do. They're called tax credits.

[Neonred 3,562]

I don't know enough about Federal taxes or income taxes and what not. But as a head of household, father of 3, making 80k a year, I am supposed to be getting a federal tax return of about 15k; which amounts to an effective tax rate of -8%(negative).

For other info 12k a year to childcare, evening classes at the local college working on a Master's degree and mortgage interest.

I will say this is the first year I have on my W4 declared: married, but withhold at the higher single rate with 0 exemptions. In years past I usually owed a 100 dollars or got back a 100 and the effective tax rate was roughly 5-6%. No idea, maybe turbo tax has made an error? So, I'm going to check with an accountant, it doesn't make sense that I can get back more than was withheld.

There you go FSM. All your BS about who is not paying income tax. Here is a guy making 80K and not paying any income tax.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I don't know enough about Federal taxes or income taxes and what not. But as a head of household, father of 3, making 80k a year, I am supposed to be getting a federal tax return of about 15k; which amounts to an effective tax rate of -8%(negative).

For other info 12k a year to childcare, evening classes at the local college working on a Master's degree and mortgage interest.

I will say this is the first year I have on my W4 declared: married, but withhold at the higher single rate with 0 exemptions. In years past I usually owed a 100 dollars or got back a 100 and the effective tax rate was roughly 5-6%. No idea, maybe turbo tax has made an error? So, I'm going to check with an accountant, it doesn't make sense that I can get back more than was withheld.

This can happen legitimately if you have enough tax credits, as Big Dog said. It can also happen when you misplace a decimal or a zero, so make sure it's not that.

It could easily be real though, you do have a lot of credits - $3000 in tax credits for the kids, and I would guess roughly another $3000 credit for the child care and up to $2000 for education. Couple that with the fact that you had way more tax witheld and the head of household filing status and you should be looking at a big return.

[Dakine10 5,452]

Do you favor universal care? Single payer?

Universal coverage yes. Single payer - don't care.

That's why socialized medicine is the way to go. Paid for through the tax code. NO BILLS! NO COPAYS! NO STATEMENTS! FREE HEALTH CARE!

0 people uninsured.

Cheaper!

If you look at Canada's system - they have a federally regulated "Health care act". They then have 13 provinces and territories that administer individual health care plans according to the terms of that act. The plans are all different from each other. In some provinces people pay health care premiums monthly. In other provinces the plans are primarily funded by taxes.

If you move from one province to another, you can have waiting periods before you are eligible for that provinces coverage. When I moved to British Columbia in 2005, I was not eligible for their health care plan for the first 3 months. Once I was eligible, I paid $90 a month for my health care premium and I know a lot of people who had medical bills - not everything is covered by your healh plan. The Canadian government does maintain strict control over health care costs. That's a big factor in keeping cost's down. Not sure that will happen here.