A Nightmare from Kyiv

[CDN2US 10]

I understand the OP's concerns and need to vent this steam. When I'm mad, I want validation, not someone to play devil's advocate for, well, what I see as the devil in my life.

We just eclipsed the two month mark in our AP nightmare. For the first few weeks, all we could do was talk about what we did wrong, this form, that form, what did they ask, what did you say, how did you say it, etc. We tried to pick it apart. It only ate us up and led to some fights.

There are some things I just can't change in this world, and if I can't change something, it's up to me to decide if I can accept it. If I can't accept it, I'm in for anxiety, worry, sleepless nights, and more fighting with my husband. If I can accept it, I'm much more like to meet calamity with serenity and to exercise my patience.

It's like going through the stages of grief. DABDA: denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. At first I couldn't believe my husband got a 221g, and then I was SUPER PISSED. I begged the Consulate to communicate with us and I'd have offered up our first born. I cried a lot. Finally, I had to get moving onto acceptance because there is absolutely NOTHING I can do about this. I move through these stages and sometimes I'm still overwhelmed with anger or sadness; then I vent it, and I feel better.

However, should the Consulate ask us for anything, we'll be on it! We're ready to jump when asked.

It's not fair, it really sucks, I hate it, and I hate it for everyone in this situation. I want my husband home. I want our life to start. I want to start a family. But what I want doesn't matter. We've got to play this horrible game.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tercerero

[Katiedog 6]

You may not be given the opportunity until the very end, if at all. If there is a classified process involved then don't expect much at all. The details they find may not be classified but the methods and sources used to obtain the information may be. Thus the data is classified solely to protect others and is not about the information itself.

You know that and she knows that, but the rest of the world does not.

We are very limited here, we do not know you, we have not seen your packet, we never spoke on the phone or hung out at a ball game. All we have is the impression that you leave us. Remember the old adage "It is easier to trap flies with honey than with vinegar." You can ask the same question in two ways and have completely different reactions. Going around berating America and how it conducts business is the vinegar way, and you will get resistance from any government office with that attitude. on the other hand if you mention how great they have been so far but you have a teensy problem and are wondering what's going on, you will be viewed with a different attitude. I'm not saying information will be withheld if you cop an attitude, but you can easily find doors opening to you for service with a little kindness. It sounds to me like you may have started off great but feel beaten down by the system and are now frustrated. Remember you are not the only person to every go through this, there re those who are told nothing and suddenly they never hear from their fiance again. Some countries also generate more suspicion than others because of past rates of fraud. Yup, someone else can make you look bad. It sucks, but it happens.

Happens all the time. How about your boss asking you to come into his office? And then he talks slowly about your work? Are you promoted or fired? You don't know! My tax guy is like yhis, he wants to tell me all about the calculation she made, I just want him to tell me if I owe or have a refund.

Anything that you give the government, plan on them looking up the original themselves.

That is one of the most condescending things a person can say to another (unless it is from a parent to a child), "It's for your own protection". Well kiss my grits and slap my face, I was so naive. WHO are they "protecting". They are merely in CYA mode according to protocol.

A highly trained, educated and experienced Consular Officer would grasp the fact initially that Marina was being truthful and honest. Someone (and the rest of the unperceptive world or someone with negative inclinations) else would be overly skeptical and accusatory in the meeting.

I was in commercial lending for 30 years and dealt with many people from all walks of life, different views, different goals and different circumstances in their lives. If I began my dealings with them in a negative manner, I would have not gotten anywhere and I would not have been doing my job. And you learn with experience to get an impression from meeting a person the first time about their credibility. You have to be objective, somewhat neutral and willing to understand their side of the situation. That is your skill as a person with discretionary authority, education, maturity and training.

Yes the "FBI method of obtaining its own information in its own manner" is well known and utilized. It is a narrow path and one heavily interspersed with misleading rabbit trails and false impressions. But the ultimate goal is to find the truth as long is fits your agenda. If it doesn't then keep looking and ignore anything objective, good or helpful to the opposite persons even though it be factual.

Robert/Karen, I truly appreciate your input, although I can grasp a sense of your skeptical outlook running your thoughts and deeds. It is good to be skeptical in some ways as long as it is tempered and balanced. Nonetheless your input is valuable to me to give me the other side of this equation although I do not agree with the manners and methods employed. I am not "whipped", I am in this for the long haul if it is a long haul. I am indignant because the SYSTEM does not have to be this way to achieve its goals and provide the service it is intended to provide to American Citizens and potential immigrants. You only need to look at history and learn that just because something is legal or made legal, does not make it right or correct according to the pervading morality standards and culture of a society. Conversely something that is against the same standards may be entirely legal as we see in the news each day.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Katiedog

[CDN2US 10]

Everything you say is true, katiedog. However, it's not going to change.

For your own mental health, your blood pressure, and your sanity...please take care of yourself.

[Katiedog 6]

"my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law"

As I remember you have a severe distaste for lawyers....

Yes, they are like another old profession that is paid for intangible services and they only work for you and care about you as long as you pay them. No money, no love.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Katiedog

[thelastpetitioner 218]

I know how painful this can be, but I think since your process was so smooth from the beginning up to that point, you forgot how bumpy the k-1 ride can be.

The fact that they said the package was too through and they needed more time to read is the only red flag, because as myself and some others believe, they make their decision before the interview. HOWEVER there is nothing abnormal in this, to me as a middle eastern beneficiary.we go throguh this every day. At times they dont even have a good reason for AP. They just suspect that the relationship between petitioner and beneficiary is not as peaches and cream as it seems at times because of either overly front loading or lack of evidence or something abnormal about the relationship set to the beneficiaries home country standards, and decide to test their relationship. I hope you do get an answer soon, because you deserve it, but as abnormal as this maybe for the RUB region, it's something that generally happens often

[Tanya and Barry 59]

"overly front loading"

+1

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

We met on four of my five trips to Ukraine from 2009 through 2011. The second trip in June, 2010 I met her as the second woman I was to meet and from that point forward we were together, I met no other women. The 3rd trip was made in November 2010. For the 4th, I returned to celebrate New Years and Ukraine Christmas in late December 2011. I took my 11 year old son. In May 2011 I made the 5th trip to Ukraine and it was the 4th trip to be with Marina and her family. This was right after filing the K1 Petition in April 2011. Each time I spent about two weeks or more in Ukraine. She has never been outside of Ukraine in her lifetime.

As I told my attorney the other day, if the people at the Consulate have questions about our relationship, all they need to do is look at the package with the documentation. It is in-escapable and irrefutable of a bona fide and genuine relationship. Probably even more evident than at least half of the other petitioners not only in physical proof but by face to face contact time. There are even signed affidavits from my 27 year old daughter and my 11 year old son about their knowledge and affirmation of the relationship and our intent to marry in the USA. Additionally not many men take one of their children to meet their significant other in Ukraine BEFORE they file a K1 Petition as I did.

Wonder if this has something to do with it?

[cdneh 3,112]

It's AP. No amount of misdirected anger or indignation, pontification about the perfection of the package or the qualifications of those that prepared it, or for that matter the intelligence of those that have to adjudicate it will hasten the process. No senator or congressman intervention, phone calls or emails, nor entreaties or pleas to the DOS will make a blind bit of difference. It ends when it ends.

We were in AP. It passes. And while they do what they need to do you wait.

[Robert&Karen 264]

That is one of the most condescending things a person can say to another (unless it is from a parent to a child), "It's for your own protection". Well kiss my grits and slap my face, I was so naive. WHO are they "protecting". They are merely in CYA mode according to protocol.

You have no idea who is being protected. Maybe they stopped another 9/11. Maybe they have a bet as to whose client can get angriest. You may never know. Doesn't matter, time is still stopped until resolution arrives.

A highly trained, educated and experienced Consular Officer would grasp the fact initially that Marina was being truthful and honest. Someone (and the rest of the unperceptive world or someone with negative inclinations) else would be overly skeptical and accusatory in the meeting.

You said that she had rehearsed what to say. If I ask a person the same question three times and get the same answer I can see it had been rehearsed. That will raise flags. She is reading from a script not from the heart. I would for sure have that checked out if I had interviewed her.

I was in commercial lending for 30 years and dealt with many people from all walks of life, different views, different goals and different circumstances in their lives. If I began my dealings with them in a negative manner, I would have not gotten anywhere and I would not have been doing my job. And you learn with experience to get an impression from meeting a person the first time about their credibility. You have to be objective, somewhat neutral and willing to understand their side of the situation. That is your skill as a person with discretionary authority, education, maturity and training.

Agreed. But all your USA bashing has formed an image of you to me and others here, and it may be slightly incorrect maybe? And in lending don't you have things verified? And have you not in your career approved one loan that you were sure would pay back and it never did, or maybe you disapproved another loan and the guy went elsewhere and made millions? Or do you have a 100% success rate for your career?

Yes the "FBI method of obtaining its own information in its own manner" is well known and utilized. It is a narrow path and one heavily interspersed with misleading rabbit trails and false impressions. But the ultimate goal is to find the truth as long is fits your agenda. If it doesn't then keep looking and ignore anything objective, good or helpful to the opposite persons even though it be factual.

The ultimate goal is to prove or disprove a point. Proving is easy, disproving requires more work. And then toss in federal holidays, vacations, holidays of the host country, etc.

Robert/Karen, I truly appreciate your input, although I can grasp a sense of your skeptical outlook running your thoughts and deeds. It is good to be skeptical in some ways as long as it is tempered and balanced. Nonetheless your input is valuable to me to give me the other side of this equation although I do not agree with the manners and methods employed. I am not "whipped", I am in this for the long haul if it is a long haul. I am indignant because the SYSTEM does not have to be this way to achieve its goals and provide the service it is intended to provide to American Citizens and potential immigrants. You only need to look at history and learn that just because something is legal or made legal, does not make it right or correct according to the pervading morality standards and culture of a society. Conversely something that is against the same standards may be entirely legal as we see in the news each day.

My skepticism is part of what you are seeing from the government. I can easily go along with you and say you are right over and over again, but it does not make the wheels turn faster. As a former insider I thought I'd lend you some ideas as to the inner workings of the Dept of State. What you can do in a day they take a month. What you can do in a month they do in a year. In fact I had one case that as a civilian can be solved in about 2 weeks, but it took almost 15 months to resolve via State channels. Things move very slowly on that side of the counter. I understand that you do not agree with the way things are done but that is because YOU know the final answer. The AP folks need to find it on their own, they won't take any help from you even if it does speed things along.

[Katiedog 6]

There is lots of "hair splitting" in this post and lots of others. You can interpret whatever I write as you wish since it is your perception and your perception as I have indicated are from the other side of the equation and there is no meeting in the middle or consideration of my side of the equation. THAT is the problem. The skeptical/negative mindset from the onset towards a petitioner is the problem.

This will not change in my lifetime, maybe not ever. But at one time women could not vote, black people had to live in seperate neighborhoods and could not stay in good hotels, etc. I could go on and on, but the point is that just because something is legal and it is part of a "system" does not make it right. You say the "system" works, yes, so did Model T cars, but they were improved quite a bit some time ago.

America bashing? Call it what you want. But I will not wrap myself in a flag and turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the blatant malfunctions of the country. Ignoring the truth and blatantly obvious is what has caused the situation the average American finds themselves in today trying to maintain a level of security and comfort for the future. 75% of American believe Congress has ruined completely any chances of redeeming themselves. That is a fact. Is that America bashing? Just the truth, NOT being Anti-American. People on this thread wanted or set themselves up to have examples of what I spoke about and I provided them. That's all I did. I did not say I did not love America, I merely stated facts which are true and easily proven to illustrate my points and you don't like it. For someone seeking truth and verification, you have an unusual standard of what is acceptable as truth and what is to be forgotten or ignored. Take a look at the BIG picture and your perception will improve. It will not make you Anti-American, an American basher or even someone who is of the radical inclination.

BTW. whatever happened to the political implementation that Obama said was to make the American Government more "open" and private Citizen friendly than it ever had been in the past?

So we agree to disagree and that is what I would have expected when I started this thread. But if you have never been in the same position as I am now with my fiance, you have no idea of what it is like. You can have no appreciation for what it causes. I hope it doesn't happen to so many good people on this forum that go through the process with bright hopes and anticipation. As for the Consulate Officers who do a genuinely good job with dedication and fortitude, I surely admire them, but the powers they have and the methods they utilize in matters such as this leave a great deal to be desired because it is unfair, biased and a needless waste of everyones time, effort and the government's money.

It is a FREE country, so we can agree to disagree. I will meet you in the middle of any issue or argument, why do I not deserve the same treatment and consideration?

[Brad and Vika 129]

Every congressional office has a staffer that handles immigration issues. I went to mine once during the process, and she was ablr to get an answer directly from USCIS. It sounds like you have an issue with a State Department CO, but the aide can and does contact those folks too. It couldn't hurt to reach out. Good Luck.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Brad and Vika

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Interesting.

Lots of commentary from people who schmoozed through easy consulates and don't understand what it might be like to come up against a visa problem.

Lots of whinging about the broken system.

Lots of defending of the service. Odd that from a community who usually can't get enough of complaining about it.

Here's the real skinny. It's a monopoly. It's the only game in town for bringing over a foreign born spouse. You give them what they want and do what they say or it just doesn't happen. It's never been as opaque as it should be. It moves slowly because the technology is archaic. It moves slowly because two departments of government make up the process. Two departments who don't speak very well to each other; two departments with agencies within each department who don't speak to each other well as a purpose-built system of checks and balances.

It is what it is and while you are traveling through it, you weep and you wail and you give them what you want. It never hurts after the fact to lobby for change. Most people though - after it's over it's over. I mean who doesn't want to put it all behind them? It's not really about your rights as much as it is about just wanting a life. If you play nicely, eventually you'll get it. If you want to try and change things, save that for later. Right now - just get on with it and go get your life.

[TBoneTX 45,064]

OP, if misery loves company, you'll appreciate this:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/110313-us-consulate-in-guayaquil-ecuador/

See the text under my username in the left sidebar of this message.

Several who were hosed are planning to write "after-visa complaints" to the Dept, of State and to the Inspector General of the consulate.

You're not dealing with a hellhole consulate -- be thankful.

When they get here, and they will, NEVER forget what you two went through to be together and don't let all the trivial challenges of life interfere with your life together.

Stay angry as you wish -- several of us are still livid at our treatment, even 3+ years later. Keep this anger while attending to what the very wise Gary has written above.

The Federal government has unlimited time and resources to make our lives miserable.

Edited February 3, 2012 by TBoneTX

[Katiedog 6]

OP, if misery loves company, you'll appreciate this:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/110313-us-consulate-in-guayaquil-ecuador/

See the text under my username in the left sidebar of this message.

Several who were hosed are planning to write "after-visa complaints" to the Dept, of State and to the Inspector General of the consulate.

The Federal government has unlimited time and resources to make our lives miserable.

Yes, I appreciate your response and hear you loud and clear. It is an exclusive club we belong to with this experience under our belts, but not a club I would care to join had I known. Like Groucho said, "I never wanted to belong to any club that wanted me".

The Federal Government intends to make life difficult and miserable on purpose. Doing so creates more government jobs and keeps the private citizen "in line". I am glad there are people who can think independently for themselves, speak out, still love America and be proud to be an American. That is what so many Americans sacrificed so much, in so many ways, so many times........... to have in this country, Freedom.

Brings back memories of when it was wrong and unpatriotic to speak bad about the war in Viet Nam. Guess that all passed on with time. Morality, social mores and patriotism change platforms from time to time but love of a mother country does not. Common sense, respect for your fellow man and doing unto to others as you would have done to you will never change either.

[thelastpetitioner 218]

You are being way too overly dramatic. Honestly, you're like the new al44. I have seen worse, way worse. You are going to spend the rest of your life with your partner a couple of months or a year or two is nothing.

Immigration system will always be as shitty as it is, and that's a guarantee. There still are close minded Americans that look at k-1 beneficiaries as green card diggers, and there are also people who think immigrants are second grade citizens.

Nobody really cares about the immigration system, unless they have or had someone go through it. It's so complicated a regular Joe wouldn't understand.

So on and all, my process took a year, my AP took two Weeks, my noa 2 took nearly seven months and got lost twice in the mail and I'm thankful because the end result is worth it and i was not mistreated based on my nationality. You need to be realistic and think with your brain not your heart