A Nightmare from Kyiv

[decocker 7,198]

katiedog, there is absolutely no reason to belittle the people who work for the government. they are not allow to "think outside the box" for a reason. there is a protocol that they have to follow in order to reduce fraud. while the system may be flawed and some folks are "unnecessarily" put through ap, having an attitude that these people are on some sort of power trip or playing god with people's lives is really very silly. be grateful that you're dealing with kyiv and not a high fraud consulate. you need to accept that there IS a reason that you were put in AP. you don't know the reason now and there's a reason for that as well. your anger is misdirected and is only going to add to the stress of missing your loved one.

[Katiedog 6]

That's not true, they are highly educated, and work very difficult to get in the Foreign Service. These are not TSA employees. You have no idea what you're talking about (or to who, apparently).

Some of us are on that track for that career or are in it already, and we didn't get here by being "robots" or being bitter. We got here because we want to represent the USA as best as we could, positively, and using our skills and knowledge towards that goal.

I wish someone like yourself would handle this matter in my K1 petition. This is my first dealing with Foreign Service employees. My past experience has been with many other departments of the US Government. Unfortunately this left me with some bad impressions no doubt. Maybe I just never encountered someone like yourself who worked for the government. My bad luck.

[Robert&Karen 264]

Yes, I am also familiar with the US Government's idea of "protection". Many times I have seen it and many times I have seen it fail and falter. We are getting into politics here but let's witness Hurricane Katrina's aftermath, the dictatorship and diefication of J. Edgar Hoover, the failure to follow through with the impeachment removal of Bill Clinton (for only God know how much he did wrong or illegal as President), the manipulation of information about WMD in Iraq leading to war a second time, the slap on the wrists of Charles Rangel for not paying taxes (not only as a private citizen but also as a trusted elected member of Congress), like the one sided railroad system of "Justice" backed by the deep pockets of the United States Treasury, like utter failure of handling the illegal alien community within the law, like giving the child of an illegal alien US Citizenship after being born here of illegal parentage and paid for by US tax dollars. Yes, it's here to "protect" me and perserve my way of life, the average US Citizen. But, I digress.

Are you sure YOU don't want to leave the USA?

All I want is fairness, consideration and the basic courtesy that any human being deserves. A person has the right to know about what is going on in this type of matter. Even my fiance said that. After all it is our life and our life together.

Investigations require more than searching a facebook page. Unless you know the inner workings, don't complain about them. It is a much bigger animal than you think. it is there because in the past there was an issue. And then to solve that they increase the AP task list. Every step taken is because someone in the past slid under the radar and we are determined that it won't happen again. You have been told the case is in AP. AP can take a year. They owe you no more than that.

[Robert&Karen 264]

I wish someone like yourself would handle this matter in my K1 petition. This is my first dealing with Foreign Service employees. My past experience has been with many other departments of the US Government. Unfortunately this left me with some bad impressions no doubt. Maybe I just never encountered someone like yourself who worked for the government. My bad luck.

If you can imagine the lies they hear, how they are berated, how they are talked down to, you'd understand their indignation at the slightest offense. Give them a little credit, be the person they WANT to talk to, be the person they wish everyone was, and watch their attitude change in an instant. You'd be surprised.

[pddp 240]

Impressive how people have such unwavering faith in the infallibility of the system that they automatically assume "there must be something there" to merit this... I guess blind faith never goes out of style?

[Katiedog 6]

If you can imagine the lies they hear, how they are berated, how they are talked down to, you'd understand their indignation at the slightest offense. Give them a little credit, be the person they WANT to talk to, be the person they wish everyone was, and watch their attitude change in an instant. You'd be surprised.

Robert&Karen, IF I were given the opportunity to talk to them, yes, I agree. I have not been given that opportunity and do not expect it to happen. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE, COMMUNICATION. There has been little or none between us and it is not for lack of trying on my part.

Yes, I love America, but it has a number of malfunctions that need addressing and repair. Take a broad look at the big picture with some objectivity instead of wrapping up in the flag. I merely point out the glaring malfunctions that are so evident to everyday American Citizens and I do not want to get into a political discussion. The surest way to flame someone up is to talk about their money, their religion, their family or their politics.

[decocker 7,198]

Impressive how people have such unwavering faith in the infallibility of the system that they automatically assume "there must be something there" to merit this... I guess blind faith never goes out of style?

it really doesn't have anything to do with 'infallibility of the system' and most definitely nothing to do with faith.

the system is totally screwed - i think everyone on this site would say that america's immigration system is flawed. but getting super pissed at the people who process the visa's isn't going to accomplish anything at all but making the OP feel even worse.

everyone who begins this process runs the risk of being placed in ap and for as many folks who are put there for a good reason -i'm sure there are as many who were put in ap for no good reason. but that's the nature of the beast. once you send that check & forms - you're playing by their rules. end of story.

just saying - if you want to be pissed and indignant and start harping about founding fathers and whatnot - get pissed at greencard scammers. there's the trouble.

[san diego 407]

We met on four of my five trips to Ukraine from 2009 through 2011. The second trip in June, 2010 I met her as the second woman I was to meet and from that point forward we were together, I met no other women. The 3rd trip was made in November 2010. For the 4th, I returned to celebrate New Years and Ukraine Christmas in late December 2011. I took my 11 year old son. In May 2011 I made the 5th trip to Ukraine and it was the 4th trip to be with Marina and her family. This was right after filing the K1 Petition in April 2011. Each time I spent about two weeks or more in Ukraine. She has never been outside of Ukraine in her lifetime.

As I told my attorney the other day, if the people at the Consulate have questions about our relationship, all they need to do is look at the package with the documentation. It is in-escapable and irrefutable of a bona fide and genuine relationship. Probably even more evident than at least half of the other petitioners not only in physical proof but by face to face contact time. There are even signed affidavits from my 27 year old daughter and my 11 year old son about their knowledge and affirmation of the relationship and our intent to marry in the USA. Additionally not many men take one of their children to meet their significant other in Ukraine BEFORE they file a K1 Petition as I did.

OK. In this case I am completely puzzled. I do not see anything problematic. I would agree with Gary/Alla. Please, talk to Elya (the one Gary was talking about). She had similar situation. Maybe, she can hep you to nail down your problem or red flag.

[pddp 240]

the system is totally screwed - i think everyone on this site would say that america's immigration system is flawed. but getting super pissed at the people who process the visa's isn't going to accomplish anything at all but making the OP feel even worse.

everyone who begins this process runs the risk of being placed in ap and for as many folks who are put there for a good reason -i'm sure there are as many who were put in ap for no good reason. but that's the nature of the beast. once you send that check & forms - you're playing by their rules. end of story.

just saying - if you want to be pissed and indignant and start harping about founding fathers and whatnot - get pissed at greencard scammers. there's the trouble.

Huh?? Who am I getting "super pissed" at?

What are you reading into my comment..?!?

[decocker 7,198]

Huh?? Who am I getting "super pissed" at?

What are you reading into my comment..?!?

no no, sorry. the op is super pissed - not you.

[Tanya and Barry 59]

OK. In this case I am completely puzzled. I do not see anything problematic. I would agree with Gary/Alla. Please, talk to Elya (the one Gary was talking about). She had similar situation. Maybe, she can hep you to nail down your problem or red flag.

I almost wonder if the package was overdone...too much info. It has been already said, in Kiev the decision is almost always made before you have the interview. Tanya was asked four or so questions, I believe....

[Katiedog 6]

Affidavits don't mean squat... anyone can make them. Most evidence can be faked somehow.

I agree that if she memorized what to say, it will sound suspicious. Did she take the interview in english or in her native language? The memorization bit will be all the more obvious if she took it in English.

I used the term "rehearsed". It was a figure of speech to describe our going over the facts of what might be asked and discussed. My main point in this statement was to indicate that she is and was totally and completely familiar with me, my background, work, past, present, family, everything and that nothing was left out. Marina is not a person who would have spoken like it was a rehearsed discussion. She was relaxed and was comfortable, but a bit puzzled at the brevity of the "interview". When she told me of the recent phone call, she indicated the woman was abrupt, terse and it was like an interrogation. I asked Marina how she answered and I asked her if she was shaken up or upset by the intial tone and questions. She told me she just answered the questions of the lady and did not let the person upset her or get her nervous. She indicated the phone call ended with the woman being at ease and seemingly satisfied. There was a much more pleasant tone at the end of the phone call coming from her. Marina just handled it all as any person would who knows the facts and speaks the truth. There is nothing to hide or fear.

Since you and Robert&Karen both have or do work for the Foreign Service and seem to light up with suspicion on the same things, let me point out that it is a sign on your parts of initial skepticism in your demeanor. Another thing about affidavits. If they don't mean "squat", why did my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law, tell me to get these affidavits and have them notarized? I guess he thinks they were a good idea to include. I will tell him that they are viewed with little or no validity in these petitions the next time I see him.

What is more is that you are viewing the situation from the side of the Consular Officer. I understand that fact and what motivates you. You need to be aware of the way this all comes across to the average US Citizen or even a potential immigrant who is truthful and honest. It can be intimidating and scary and it can put you off balance because there is so much at stake from the outcome.

Consider this scenario: Your doctor calls you with the latest report from you last bloodwork. He/she says they need to see you right away and can you come right away to their office.

How does the doctor handle this situation which may be serious or may be routine? You have no idea what is going on but it has the potential to be bad and the outcome is serious one way or the other, good or bad.

And you further state that any documentation can be "faked somehow". If that is the case and I provided the documentation as required to the letter by the guidelines, what is the purpose of providing certified, original, translated, notarized, etc. documentation if it is viewed as probably faked? You are giving off some negative vibes and skepticism I addressed in one of my posts about US Government employees with discretionary authority. A pre-determined mental attitude of "this deal can't be good" from the beginning.

This situation is like most things in life, it involves "communication". The protocol of handling a petition in 221g does not involve communication with the parties involved between themselves. It is like being tried in a court and you are not allowed to be present, your information you provided as required is questioned as if it was all fraudulently prepared for fraudulent purposes. And the basic decision to approve or disapprove has already been made before it even goes to court. You were never given the chance to set things correctly.

[Robert&Karen 264]

Robert&Karen, IF I were given the opportunity to talk to them, yes, I agree. I have not been given that opportunity and do not expect it to happen. THAT IS THE ISSUE HERE, COMMUNICATION. There has been little or none between us and it is not for lack of trying on my part.

Yes, I love America, but it has a number of malfunctions that need addressing and repair. Take a broad look at the big picture with some objectivity instead of wrapping up in the flag. I merely point out the glaring malfunctions that are so evident to everyday American Citizens and I do not want to get into a political discussion. The surest way to flame someone up is to talk about their money, their religion, their family or their politics.

You may not be given the opportunity until the very end, if at all. If there is a classified process involved then don't expect much at all. The details they find may not be classified but the methods and sources used to obtain the information may be. Thus the data is classified solely to protect others and is not about the information itself.

Marina just handled it all as any person would who knows the facts and speaks the truth. There is nothing to hide or fear.

You know that and she knows that, but the rest of the world does not.

Since you and Robert&Karen both have or do work for the Foreign Service and seem to light up with suspicion on the same things, let me point out that it is a sign on your parts of initial skepticism in your demeanor.

We are very limited here, we do not know you, we have not seen your packet, we never spoke on the phone or hung out at a ball game. All we have is the impression that you leave us. Remember the old adage "It is easier to trap flies with honey than with vinegar." You can ask the same question in two ways and have completely different reactions. Going around berating America and how it conducts business is the vinegar way, and you will get resistance from any government office with that attitude. on the other hand if you mention how great they have been so far but you have a teensy problem and are wondering what's going on, you will be viewed with a different attitude. I'm not saying information will be withheld if you cop an attitude, but you can easily find doors opening to you for service with a little kindness. It sounds to me like you may have started off great but feel beaten down by the system and are now frustrated. Remember you are not the only person to every go through this, there re those who are told nothing and suddenly they never hear from their fiance again. Some countries also generate more suspicion than others because of past rates of fraud. Yup, someone else can make you look bad. It sucks, but it happens.

Another thing about affidavits. If they don't mean "squat", why did my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law, tell me to get these affidavits and have them notarized? I guess he thinks they were a good idea to include. I will tell him that they are viewed with little or no validity in these petitions the next time I see him.

You'd have to ask him that. He may see that 5% of the clients get an RFE so he figures if everyone gets notarization it is one less possible issue.

Consider this scenario: Your doctor calls you with the latest report from you last bloodwork. He/she says they need to see you right away and can you come right away to their office.

How does the doctor handle this situation which may be serious or may be routine? You have no idea what is going on but it has the potential to be bad and the outcome is serious one way or the other, good or bad.

Happens all the time. How about your boss asking you to come into his office? And then he talks slowly about your work? Are you promoted or fired? You don't know! My tax guy is like yhis, he wants to tell me all about the calculation she made, I just want him to tell me if I owe or have a refund.

And you further state that any documentation can be "faked somehow". If that is the case and I provided the documentation as required to the letter by the guidelines, what is the purpose of providing certified, original, translated, notarized, etc. documentation if it is viewed as probably faked? You are giving off some negative vibes and skepticism I addressed in one of my posts about US Government employees with discretionary authority. A pre-determined mental attitude of "this deal can't be good" from the beginning.

Anything that you give the government, plan on them looking up the original themselves.

This situation is like most things in life, it involves "communication". The protocol of handling a petition in 221g does not involve communication with the parties involved between themselves. It is like being tried in a court and you are not allowed to be present, your information you provided as required is questioned as if it was all fraudulently prepared for fraudulent purposes. And the basic decision to approve or disapprove has already been made before it even goes to court. You were never given the chance to set things correctly.

Things are still in motion. They will come back later and say all is well, or all is not well because of this or that. At that time you can refute their reasoning -- probably. there are times a denial is not given any reason because of the source classifications I stated above. We will always have 1% of the bad guys sneak in and 1% of great people kept out. It is not a perfect system. I understand your desire to want to know more, to be able to offer assistance in any form in order to expedite the process. Believe me when I say the government wants this off their table as much as you do. The wheels of the machine turn VERY slowly, especially in an Embassy (We had a new guy, a former Infantry Officer, want something done in a couple hours. It took a month. He was not used to Dipnotes and other internal systems at the start. Now HE was frustrated!).

I can feel the tension, worry, and concern in your voice. I can see that it is eating at you, and you wonder if you have been hung out to dry. Even a post card once a month saying they are still looking into things would be nice. But that's just now how it works. This process is slower than watching cars rust. I wish there was a quick answer for you, I truly do. I'd hate to be in AP land. Check the boards here, I have yet to see a couple come out of AP and not look whipped.

[together4evr 360]

Another possibility os to find out who the Inspector Genral is for the consulate and get him involved. IGs usually get results, far more than Congress people who really have no pull over Administrative Departments like DOS. The IG can only take action IF there is some incompetence or violation of law, but an IGs inquiry is usually enough to move your case to the head of the line, if nothing else.

Google "Inspectors General" and see if you can find the one that handles the Kiev consulate. I do not have a number or link for you, but with a little searching I think you will find it. FWIW people inside VSC tell me that when an IG calls they snap to and get them an answer ASAP. I would imagine the same applies to consulates.

OIG Website

Please contact the OIG Webmaster ONLY to report problems with this site or for questions about any information posted on this site at: OIGWebmaster@state.gov. PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT THE WEBMASTER ABOUT VISA ISSUES OR ANY OTHER ISSUES NOT RELATED TO THE SITE'S CONTENT.

OIG Hotline

You should contact the OIG Hotline only if you wish to report a potential criminal case, abuse, or fraud.

Click here for the OIG Hotline.

Email: oighotline@state.gov

Mail:

Office of Inspector General

HOTLINE

P.O. Box 9778

Arlington, Virginia 22219

Phone: 202-647-3320 or 800-409-9926

[Tanya and Barry 59]

"my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law"

As I remember you have a severe distaste for lawyers....