Senate Approves Mexican Border Fence

[aidan80 9]

I was just reading the news from back home when I noticed this story…

The US Senate has approved a bill to construct a 700 mile fence along the Mexican border in an attempt to stop illegal immigration.

The proposed fence will stretch along the border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, and is set to cost $1.2billion….

This follows earlier attempts to combine border security with a guest-worker programme for the 12 million immigrants currently living illegally in the United States.

Mexico's President, Vicente Fox, has compared the fence to the Berlin Wall.

Click here to view the full story on RTE

That’s a lot of money wasted in my opinion in an attempt to control a situation that can’t be controlled by sticking up a fence or by posting more guards along the border. I don’t think a problem such as immigration legal or illegal can be controlled or cured by simply treating one of its many, many symptoms.

[homesick_american 1]

I support a fence but it needs to run the length of the border.

Mexico's pissed because they don't want the US to try to prevent illegals from entering the country. I say tough. Mexico needs to take care of its own people, as do other countries contributing illegals in large numbers.

I used to support a guest worker program but I no longer do now that I see the damage that migrant workers can do to the economy. Just look at what they're doing in the UK. The government keeps telling us they've been a 'boon.' Bullsh!t. They're not a boon when native-born British people can't get a job because there's always a Pole willing to work for less or put up with more sh!t, and the rest of us have to subsidize that Pole having that job by paying for the Brit to be on benefit. No, no, no.

You could say it's hypocritical of me to be against something like that, seeing as I am an immigrant who is 'taking jobs away from British people.' Not really; the UK government is still importing people from abroad to do what I do because there aren't enough Brits trained to do it.

[BJZags 17]

The immigrants are a problem because they take jobs away from tax-paying Americans only holds water if those Americans who are unemployed want to take the low-level, service-sector, minimum-wage jobs that the illegals are taking. I suppose the American teenager who works at McDonald's would have a beef (so to speak) since they would be the ones most directly affected by a so-called guest worker program. But, I'm guessing it would indirectly benefit the American teen, because they could say: "Hey mom, I've been looking for a job, but I can't find one that hasn't been filled by a guest-worker Guess you'll need to raise my allowance." Of course, these are all enormous generalizations, but there is a wrinkle of truth in them that most people don't like to admit.

[aidan80 9]

I support a fence but it needs to run the length of the border.

Mexico's pissed because they don't want the US to try to prevent illegals from entering the country. I say tough. Mexico needs to take care of its own people, as do other countries contributing illegals in large numbers.

I used to support a guest worker program but I no longer do now that I see the damage that migrant workers can do to the economy. Just look at what they're doing in the UK. The government keeps telling us they've been a 'boon.' Bullsh!t. They're not a boon when native-born British people can't get a job because there's always a Pole willing to work for less or put up with more sh!t, and the rest of us have to subsidize that Pole having that job by paying for the Brit to be on benefit. No, no, no.

You could say it's hypocritical of me to be against something like that, seeing as I am an immigrant who is 'taking jobs away from British people.' Not really; the UK government is still importing people from abroad to do what I do because there aren't enough Brits trained to do it.

I don’t agree with the fence, I don’t think it’ll solve a thing. It’s a waste of good money and will only slow things down temporarily at best. Well at least till people get some boats and or cutting, bulldozing equipment organized.

I’m sure Mexico is pissed, if Canada put up a fence along the US border and said "we don’t want no more of you’re kind coming up here" I’m sure they’d be war. Some countries can’t take care of their own people; sometimes there are too many people and not enough funds. I don’t exactly know why, maybe the economy is in the toilet. If people need jobs and the conditions are bad enough or they believed the opportunities good enough I’d find it hard to believe anyone would say they wouldn’t do the same in that position. I’m not saying its right to do such things I’m just saying I could understand why. The very same could be applied to the “poles” as you call them in Briton. The very same could be said of my own people at one point or another in time.

I believe it’s a better idea to talk to the Mexican government, find out why there is such immigration and find ways to combat it. Maybe helping or investing in the Mexican economy, improving conditions would be money better spent (and less of it) than the fence? Not too many years ago (before the Celtic Tiger as it’s called) there were thousands if not more Irish people leaving Ireland, going all over the world. The reason was simple there was not much of anything back home and certainly not enough jobs for everyone. They left and they made money they sent some home am sure.. and now look at the situation? Many, many thousands of Irish have returned home in recent years as have other peoples and the reason is simple, there is opportunity were there once was none. I believe the same could happen for Mexico, Poland and other countries if proper investment is made and the correct people are elected to make the correct financial and political decisions. Sticking up a fence and saying you’re on your own will at best just bottleneck the problem for a time.

I think the guest worker program is a half way decent middle ground between the expense of having everyone rounded up and deported just to find them making their way back into the US at a later date. At least they become documented, they pay the fees, they pay tax, they get in the system properly and they have the chance to stay and the government knows were they are. I can understand why people would be pissed if they can’t get a job or like some people that I know back home they get sacked just because the company is willing to hire someone under the table and or pay them less. Subsidizing what? If a British person is on benefits and the “Pole” as you put it is taking a job. Surely the Polish person is subsidizing the unemployed British person when they pay their taxes . If someone is working without documentation then the authorities should be informed. From what people have told me back home, it’s the low end jobs that are at risk everything from factory type work to picking fruit to washing cars I’m sure.

I wouldn’t say it’s hypocritical of you to say such things; I’m in the same position here in the US. The reason I’m here is because I’m married to a US Citizen and that alone has so far has given me the legal right to be here, work, drive and take advantage of all the other opportunities that are available. I wouldn’t say I’d be taking an Americans job if I got one tomorrow, since I like yourself have been given the right to remain in the country and the right to work then it’s fair to say we also possess the right to compete for most jobs but not all.

[homesick_american 1]

I don’t agree with the fence, I don’t think it’ll solve a thing. It’s a waste of good money and will only slow things down temporarily at best. Well at least till people get some boats and or cutting, bulldozing equipment organized.

That's the beee-yooo-tiful thing about America; we don't have to agree. And you have a point; once the fences are built people will just find other ways in. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it!

I’m sure Mexico is pissed, if Canada put up a fence along the US border and said "we don’t want no more of you’re kind coming up here" I’m sure they’d be war.

Not from me; I wish the Canadian border were better protected. I don't really care if they build a wall.

Some countries can’t take care of their own people; sometimes there are too many people and not enough funds. I don’t exactly know why, maybe the economy is in the toilet. If people need jobs and the conditions are bad enough or they believed the opportunities good enough I’d find it hard to believe anyone would say they wouldn’t do the same in that position. I’m not saying its right to do such things I’m just saying I could understand why. The very same could be applied to the “poles” as you call them in Briton. The very same could be said of my own people at one point or another in time.

I call them Poles because that's what they are: Poles. My grandmother's Polish, so if you're reading any anti-Polish bias into this you can perish the thought right now. However, I'm not going to let nostalgia or warm fuzzy feelings for the ancestral homeland get in the way of logic and reason. 600,000 Poles have migrated to the UK in the last 2 years, increasing pressure on public services and housing. Fact.

I believe it’s a better idea to talk to the Mexican government, find out why there is such immigration and find ways to combat it. Maybe helping or investing in the Mexican economy, improving conditions would be money better spent (and less of it) than the fence? Not too many years ago (before the Celtic Tiger as it’s called) there were thousands if not more Irish people leaving Ireland, going all over the world. The reason was simple there was not much of anything back home and certainly not enough jobs for everyone. They left and they made money they sent some home am sure.. and now look at the situation? Many, many thousands of Irish have returned home in recent years as have other peoples and the reason is simple, there is opportunity were there once was none. I believe the same could happen for Mexico, Poland and other countries if proper investment is made and the correct people are elected to make the correct financial and political decisions. Sticking up a fence and saying you’re on your own will at best just bottleneck the problem for a time.

We've tried and tried and tried that. Mexico doesn't give a sh!t about its own poor. We know that. We can't get them to give a sh!t. They just try to foist them onto us.

I think the guest worker program is a half way decent middle ground between the expense of having everyone rounded up and deported just to find them making their way back into the US at a later date.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree that there is any middle ground here. We shouldn't have to compromise.

At least they become documented, they pay the fees, they pay tax, they get in the system properly and they have the chance to stay and the government knows were they are. I can understand why people would be pissed if they can’t get a job or like some people that I know back home they get sacked just because the company is willing to hire someone under the table and or pay them less. Subsidizing what? If a British person is on benefits and the “Pole” as you put it is taking a job. Surely the Polish person is subsidizing the unemployed British person when they pay their taxes . If someone is working without documentation then the authorities should be informed. From what people have told me back home, it’s the low end jobs that are at risk everything from factory type work to picking fruit to washing cars I’m sure.

Nah, you'd be surprised how many legal EU workers in the UK still work on the black market for cash in hand. Hell, even British tradesmen often tell me that if I pay them in cash that I don't have to pay VAT. I'm not stupid; I pay them by cheque and put the VAT on. What they do with it afterwards is their problem but I'm going to pay the f*cking VAT.

I wouldn’t say it’s hypocritical of you to say such things; I’m in the same position here in the US. The reason I’m here is because I’m married to a US Citizen and that alone has so far has given me the legal right to be here, work, drive and take advantage of all the other opportunities that are available. I wouldn’t say I’d be taking an Americans job if I got one tomorrow, since I like yourself have been given the right to remain in the country and the right to work then it’s fair to say we also possess the right to compete for most jobs but not all.

That's a good way of putting it.

[aidan80 9]

You’re correct we don’t have to agree. You’re again correct once the fences are up they will find other ways to get in… so the point of the fence was…

I wasn’t reading any anti anything. I’m sure that high levels of immigrants do add additional pressure to the social system, housing, education, health etc. They also jump into all those jobs most people aren’t that fond of; immigration can be a good and a bad thing. It’s all too easy to pick the negative out of it all by generalizing and stereotyping.

Well if talking to the Mexicans doesn’t fix it, I doubt the fence will, not if the costs to repair it mount. Dialogue and attempts at dialogue will in time solve the problem as opposed to patching it up.

There has to be a middle ground, without compromise there is only the extremes? Deport all 10 – 12 million undocumented people? Is that a better idea? Who would pay for it? or.. Declare an outright amnesty and allow them to just stay? Isn’t quite the right decision either? Or.. The middle ground..

I stand by what I say, better to be documented than undocumented. Everyone no matter who they are or where they are from could end up on the black market for any number of reasons. Generalizing and stereotyping isn’t a good way to handle immigration.

I’m glad you agree. So when Poland joined the EU and Briton allowed the Polish into the UK and each Polish person that was allowed in at that time, was given the right to live and work. Would it not be logical and reasonable that they with their legal status are also entitled to compete for employment in the same manner as you being an American in the UK or as I being an Irish person in the US..

[homesick_american 1]

You’re correct we don’t have to agree. You’re again correct once the fences are up they will find other ways to get in… so the point of the fence was…

I wasn’t reading any anti anything. I’m sure that high levels of immigrants do add additional pressure to the social system, housing, education, health etc. They also jump into all those jobs most people aren’t that fond of; immigration can be a good and a bad thing. It’s all too easy to pick the negative out of it all by generalizing and stereotyping.

Well if talking to the Mexicans doesn’t fix it, I doubt the fence will, not if the costs to repair it mount. Dialogue and attempts at dialogue will in time solve the problem as opposed to patching it up.

I think the fence will help once it extends from San Diego to the Gulf.

There has to be a middle ground, without compromise there is only the extremes? Deport all 10 – 12 million undocumented people? Is that a better idea? Who would pay for it? or.. Declare an outright amnesty and allow them to just stay? Isn’t quite the right decision either? Or.. The middle ground..

I don't propose going after them since that's expensive, but if we catch them then they should be immediately deported. We also need to tighten up on employers so maybe if they can't find work, they'll just go home on their own. That's not realistic, though; when do we EVER punish employers who employ illegals? I'm against outright amnesty, not prepared to even discuss it.

I stand by what I say, better to be documented than undocumented. Everyone no matter who they are or where they are from could end up on the black market for any number of reasons. Generalizing and stereotyping isn’t a good way to handle immigration.

Neither is rewarding illegal behavior.

I’m glad you agree. So when Poland joined the EU and Briton allowed the Polish into the UK and each Polish person that was allowed in at that time, was given the right to live and work. Would it not be logical and reasonable that they with their legal status are also entitled to compete for employment in the same manner as you being an American in the UK or as I being an Irish person in the US..

They're only entitled to compete in certain countries; most countries in the EU closed their markets to 8 out of 10 of the new members (Malta and Cyprus are too small to even be restricted). The UK didn't because it wanted a source of cheap labor. I'm certainly not blaming the Poles who have come to the UK; they've come legally and I can hardly blame them for wanting to get out of Poland. I do blame the UK government for failing spectacularly to plan for this. Their initial estimate of 15,000 new migrants a year was laughable. Nobody believed it then, but I think a lot of people are shocked by just how MANY migrants have come into the UK. I'm not concerned about Poles coming to the UK and going on the dole, since that hardly ever happens. I'm concerned about already-stretched housing stock and the pressure on house prices for key workers, schools bursting at the seams, and an NHS which has utterly failed to plan for any of this. City councils aren't entirely blameless either. I hear there are some areas in East Anglia that are really suffering under the staggering weight of so many new migrants in such a short space of time.

[Keith & Xiang 0]

I have family and friends that have felt the impact of the "Bring on the competition" statement to India that was brought on by higher powers. We have enough technical skilled workers in the United States, there's no need for any company or corporation to bring technical skilled workers into the United States.

As for the immigrants illegally crossing the borders to obtain work that United States citizens refuse to work. Well there was a story of new construction in a neighborhood, the construction crew always left its lunch trash in the streets and on lawns. The neighbors in this community registered the name "INS" and placed the initials on baseball caps. Upon seeing the neighborhood community sporting the caps, the construction work crew then left never to be seen again in that neighborhood.

So tell me, what impact are illegal immigrants having on the system? Not to mention healthcare costs and the money earned leaving the country.

I'm all for a better life for all but there comes a time where citizens should want to better their homeland, wherever the homeland may be. Think about it, Mexico could be a great country if only the people would make it happen. Look at the geology, ocean front property, a warm climate, given 10 - 20 years Mexico could be a thriving paradise.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,

Keith

[WifeOHunkyJohn 2]

So tell me, what impact are illegal immigrants having on the system? Not to mention healthcare costs and the money earned leaving the country.

I'm all for a better life for all but there comes a time where citizens should want to better their homeland, wherever the homeland may be. Think about it, Mexico could be a great country if only the people would make it happen. Look at the geology, ocean front property, a warm climate, given 10 - 20 years Mexico could be a thriving paradise.

Just my thoughts.

Thanks,

Keith

If there was only an icon that cheered...

Speaking as an immigrant who has a legal right to be here, I found it disrespectful and downright insulting when I was watching the marchers waving mexican flags and yelling 'viva mexico' and the whole 'today we march, tomorrow we vote' thing. When you cannot even respect the letter of the law in the country you claim to adopt as home because the prospects are better, how can you then throw it in their face like that by basically, snubbing your nose at the USA and all that you claim is good about the country? I think the fence is an excellent idea because it is a physical symbol of the fact US citizens and legal residents don't want people to be illegal in this country. And it is also an actual barrier to successfully getting into the country illegally. If only it went all the way along instead of the 700 odd miles, or the newly amended 300 ish "maybe" miles of fence that got signed into existence...

We don't want the illegals (aka 'undocumented workers', yea right changing the name doesn't change the fact it is still a crime... grr) exploiting the system and sucking it dry as they wave mexican flags and tell us they have every right to be here. No they don't, that's why we have Immigration Laws!!! Be legal, we all have to be, and I am insulted that the illegal immigrants, and the mexican government seem to think that it is not okay for the USA to secure its own borders.

We are not yelled at and have people protesting when we lock our doors, buy burglar alarms and make our homes safe and secure from intruders, so why is it this way when we want to secure our borders??? Can we not expect the same safety and security from intruders for this country we all profess to call home???

Maybe somebody should explain it to me...

[peejay 327]

Maybe somebody should explain it to me...

It is $$$ and/or power. This corruption benefits the few at the expense of the many.

Cheap labor and/or cheap votes = Corrupt politicians and Big Business

When will the American sheeple take back our government?

[solarus 0]

It'll cost at least 10 x projected when it's done.

There will be no improvement.

Why not try helping make Mexico a better place to live?

[shirleyjeremy 0]

I support a fence but it needs to run the length of the border.

Mexico's pissed because they don't want the US to try to prevent illegals from entering the country. I say tough. Mexico needs to take care of its own people, as do other countries contributing illegals in large numbers.

I used to support a guest worker program but I no longer do now that I see the damage that migrant workers can do to the economy. Just look at what they're doing in the UK. The government keeps telling us they've been a 'boon.' Bullsh!t. They're not a boon when native-born British people can't get a job because there's always a Pole willing to work for less or put up with more sh!t, and the rest of us have to subsidize that Pole having that job by paying for the Brit to be on benefit. No, no, no.

You could say it's hypocritical of me to be against something like that, seeing as I am an immigrant who is 'taking jobs away from British people.' Not really; the UK government is still importing people from abroad to do what I do because there aren't enough Brits trained to do it.

I Was born in the US but i am a christian and do not aline myself with nationalities and political parties. So i support immigrants coming to america in truck loads times are changing and all people of the world deserve what americans enjoy every day. Besides that America relies on immigrants to much to just cut them out. Everyone says its a good idea to get them out but when you go to the store next week and you are paying 6 dollars for a gallon of milk people will change there mind.

It is $$$ and/or power. This corruption benefits the few at the expense of the many.

Cheap labor and/or cheap votes = Corrupt politicians and Big Business

When will the American sheeple take back our government?

Americans will never take back there govt. If i have learned anything from my years of education and my trips to small "third world countrys" its that while we may be far ahead with money and armys and tech. we are loosing our glue are family values are sense of community. American are more interested in what about me what new car can i get than The starving children of the world.

[aidan80 9]

I have family and friends that have felt the impact of the "Bring on the competition" statement to India that was brought on by higher powers. We have enough technical skilled workers in the United States, there's no need for any company or corporation to bring technical skilled workers into the United States.

What exactly does that have to do with a fence on the border? I don’t understand that statement or whom it’s directed at.

It'll cost at least 10 x projected when it's done.

There will be no improvement.

Why not try helping make Mexico a better place to live?

I couldn’t agree more. Investment, dialogue and reform on both sides of the US/Mexican border would do more to combat the problem of immigration than a 100 fences. It’s good money being pissed down the drain. Then again it isn’t a drop in the ocean compared to the defense budget! Least I figured out why there isn’t any government funded health care here.

Americans will never take back there govt. If i have learned anything from my years of education and my trips to small "third world countrys" its that while we may be far ahead with money and armys and tech. we are loosing our glue are family values are sense of community. American are more interested in what about me what new car can i get than The starving children of the world.

You’re correct when you say the US is “far ahead” have a look here and here to see exactly how far ahead and how much money is being spent. Spent on what? It isn’t the starving peoples of the world that’s for sure.

[Alan & Sharon 0]

What I find the most disturbing is that all of the people on here going through a time-consuming, difficult, seemingly endless process to bring their loved ones here legally have to listen to their representatives in government make excuses for the illegal immigrants and the business's need for them or our economy would fall apart. First, make the immigration process simpler, quicker, and fair for all. Secondly, enforce the laws that are already on the books if you aren't going to change the system. Finally, do not reward anyone who chose to circumvent the laws for their own gain (for that is what it is). While it is sad that the economies of the countries where the majority of illegal immigrants are coming from are in such bad shape, it is up to the people there to change that, not the United States. Cultural differences aside, if people want to improve their existence, it is up to them to do so. That is as true in the US as it is anywhere else. Eventually, if the flood of illegal immigration continues at it's current pace, the US is expected to have over 420 million people living here by 2050, and the strain on the natural and social resources will create the same kinds of situations here as now exist in many of the poorer countries where the immigrants are coming from. Will there be 30 million more low-paying jobs available for those peoples to fill? I would not deny anyone the right to immigrate legally, but I do despise those that thumb their noses at our laws while we sit here and wait for some word from the USCIS about the status of our applications.

[Keith & Xiang 0]

What I find the most disturbing is that all of the people on here going through a time-consuming, difficult, seemingly endless process to bring their loved ones here legally have to listen to their representatives in government make excuses for the illegal immigrants and the business's need for them or our economy would fall apart. First, make the immigration process simpler, quicker, and fair for all. Secondly, enforce the laws that are already on the books if you aren't going to change the system. Finally, do not reward anyone who chose to circumvent the laws for their own gain (for that is what it is). While it is sad that the economies of the countries where the majority of illegal immigrants are coming from are in such bad shape, it is up to the people there to change that, not the United States. Cultural differences aside, if people want to improve their existence, it is up to them to do so. That is as true in the US as it is anywhere else. Eventually, if the flood of illegal immigration continues at it's current pace, the US is expected to have over 420 million people living here by 2050, and the strain on the natural and social resources will create the same kinds of situations here as now exist in many of the poorer countries where the immigrants are coming from. Will there be 30 million more low-paying jobs available for those peoples to fill? I would not deny anyone the right to immigrate legally, but I do despise those that thumb their noses at our laws while we sit here and wait for some word from the USCIS about the status of our applications.

I couldn't have said it better myself! If it wasn't for "big business" lobbying the powers to be, we just might not be in the mess that we're in now. I know of several unemployed U.S. Citizens that would gladly dig ditches to put food on the table for their families. To bad those that have worked so hard over the years cannot benefit from their labors, instead society tends to ask "Why aren't you working now" instead of helping them get assistance. Gee, I don't know why I'm not working now, perhaps I could if you weren't paying someone under the table less than minimum wage!

As for myself, I'm very fortunate to be working, I'm in the technical field, we all know where the jobs in my field have gone to. And those positions that haven't gone there, well the U.S. corporations are bringing the workers here because as we all know, the average U.S. Citizen isn't intellegent enough to fill these very demanding jobs, not even those Citizens that hold bachelor and masters degrees. What a shame, the selling of America.

I have family and friends that have felt the impact of the "Bring on the competition" statement to India that was brought on by higher powers. We have enough technical skilled workers in the United States, there's no need for any company or corporation to bring technical skilled workers into the United States.

What exactly does that have to do with a fence on the border? I don’t understand that statement or whom it’s directed at.

The statement that I have made relates to the topic at hand, actually a branch off the same tree. How long has the average person here waited for their loved one to get approved? Now we have a corporation that can pay $1,000 to bring a worker here from another country to fill a position that we are not able to fill, this along with the "migrant worker" filling positions, see where I'm going with this? Is has plenty to do with "building fences", whether it be the physical kind that can be seen or the kind that puts due process where it needs to be.

Don't relate to the "fence building" as the only means of controlling immigration, there are other avenues where there are shortcuts. I'm curious though as to how thorough the background checks can be with only having 15 days to research someone's background.