Netanyahu: Israel's greatest enemies are the NYT and Ha'aretz

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I realize that English is not your first language, but the audience here is a bit more sophisticated than Captain Israel comic books.

Ameen

[AMP 54]

what you cannot answer the question!

Edited January 20, 2012 by AMP

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

what you cannot answer the question!

You mean this nonsense ?

are you saying that to me or imply that I will do that to you? we don't do that you have a choice, live peacefully or be punished. pal just want to kill us. do you think your hate will stop if we give you back the land? please I would like to know.

e

Hmmm let's see... Israel has taken 78% of historic Palestine by force... in defiance of international law continues to hold the rest under a belligerent "temporary" military occupation which is now going on 45 years... It has ethnically cleansed the better part of a million Palestinians... killed thousands of them and maimed tens of thousands more since 2000... bulldozed hundreds of their villages and thousands of their homes, businesses, mosques... destroyed hundreds of thousands of dunums of their farms and orchards... and moved close to three quarter of a million of its illegal colonists into settlements built on illegally seized Palestinian land in further flagrant defiance of international law and the Geneva Conventions...

But you feel that Israel is the victim here and you're worried the Palestinians might for some irrational reason be ticked off about having their land stolen and all, so you think it's a good solution to just get rid of them.

Got it.

[AMP 54]

You mean this nonsense ?

Hmmm let's see... Israel has taken 78% of historic Palestine by force... in defiance of international law continues to hold the rest under a belligerent "temporary" military occupation which is now going on 45 years... It has ethnically cleansed the better part of a million Palestinians... killed thousands of them and maimed tens of thousands more since 2000... bulldozed hundreds of their villages and thousands of their homes, businesses, mosques... destroyed hundreds of thousands of dunums of their farms and orchards... and moved close to three quarter of a million of its illegal colonists into settlements built on illegally seized Palestinian land in further flagrant defiance of international law and the Geneva Conventions...

But you feel that Israel is the victim here and you're worried the Palestinians might for some irrational reason be ticked off about having their land stolen and all, so you think it's a good solution to just get rid of them.

Got it.

here is a simple question, do you recognize Israel as a country as set by the UN?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

here is a simple question, do you recognize Israel as a country as set by the UN?

Israel uses the UN when it needs it, ignores it whenever it's inconvenient to behave as if it belongs to it.

Study: Israel leads in ignoring Security Council resolutions

NEW YORK - Israel holds the record for ignoring United Nations Security Council resolutions, according to a study by San Francisco University political science professor Steven Zunes.

By Shlomo Shamir

Published 00:00 10.10.02

NEW YORK - Israel holds the record for ignoring United Nations Security Council resolutions, according to a study by San Francisco University political science professor Steven Zunes.

On the eve of a possible U.S.-British assault on Iraq, Zunes decided to examine in depth one of the main arguments used by the Bush administration to justify changing the Baghdad regime - Iraq's deliberate refusal to implement UN Security Council resolutions. He systematically went through all the states given instructions by the security council to find out how common a phenomenon it was. His results were somewhat surprising: "Some of the countries are considered and are known to be friendly to the U.S.," he told Ha'aretz yesterday. "In the vast majority of cases I examined, the governments violating UN Security Council resolutions are countries that receive significant military, diplomatic and financial aid from the U.S."

Israel leads the list. Since 1968, Israel has violated 32 resolutions that included condemnation or criticism of the governments' policies and actions. Turkey is in second place, with 24 violations since 1974, and Morocco is third with 17 resolutions it ignored.

Newsday newspaper published the ranking yesterday, but Zunes said that he did not rank the states and claimed it was newspaper that came up with the grades. According to Zunes, out of some 1,500 UN Security Resolutions passed since 1947, 90 were openly, blatantly, and continually violated without the governments being held accountable for their actions.

Zunes specifically avoided counting resolutions that are vague or unclear so that governments could claim different interpretations to the meaning of the resolutions. Thus, the famous UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338 are not included in his study. He also did not count resolutions that only included condemnations. Instead, he focused on those that included specific calls for changes in the subject governments' policies.

The resolutions Israel violated were either about its annexation of East Jerusalem or settlements in the territories. Israel also ignored UN Security Council resolutions that called for Israel to cease using harsh measures against the Palestinian population and to cease expelling Palestinians.

In response, Israel's deputy chief of mission at the UN, Aharon Yaakov, said yesterday that there are big differences between the decisions that refer to Israel and those that refer to Iraq. "Israel is the only democracy in the region and is fighting for its existence, while Iraq is a brutal dictatorship that attacked its neighbors and violates human rights, including the use of chemical weapons against its own citizens," he said.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Sofiyya

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

here is a simple question, do you recognize Israel as a country as set by the UN?

#1. Israel "as a country" was not "set by the UN." As has already been pointed out to you, the UN Partition Plan was rejected by the Security Council and not implemented.

During further debates at the Security Council over how to proceed, Austin observed that it had become "clear that the Security Council is not prepared to go ahead with efforts to implement this plan in the existing situation. At the same time, it was clear that the U.K.’s announced termination of the Mandate on May 15 "would result, in the light of information now available, in chaos, heavy fighting and much loss of life in Palestine." The U.N. could not permit this, he said, and the Security Council had the responsibility and authority under the Charter to act to prevent such a threat to the peace. The U.S. also proposed establishing a Trusteeship over Palestine to give further opportunity to the Jews and Arabs to reach a mutual agreement. Pending the convening of a special session of the General Assembly to that end, "we believe that the Security Council should instruct the Palestine Commission to suspend its efforts to implement the proposed partition plan." [26]"

...

Mindful of the worsening situation in Palestine, and wishing to avoid further debate, the U.S. proposed another draft resolution calling for a truce between Jewish and Arab armed groups that Austin noted "would not prejudice the claims of either group" and which "does not mention trusteeship." [31] It was adopted as Resolution 43 on April 1. [32] Resolution 44 was also passed the same day requesting "the Secretary General, in accordance with Article 20 of the United Nations Charter, to convoke a special session of the General Assembly to consider further the question of the future government of Palestine." [33] Resolution 46 reiterated the Security Council’s call for the cessation of hostilities in Palestine, [34] and Resolution 48 established a "Truce Commission" to further the goal of implementing its resolutions calling for an end to the violence. [35]

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2010/10/26/the-myth-of-the-u-n-creation-of-israel/

#2. The Zionists, however, unilaterally declared statehood on May 14, 1948. But, in their official letter to the UN asking for recognition of Israel, they specifically stated their borders would be the ones described in the UN Partition Plan.

(a) Over which areas of Palestine do you actually exercise control at the present time?

...

at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.

http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/B4085A930E0529C98025649D00410973

The document makes many references to the borders of Israel, and the operations being conducted in territory "under Jewish occupation" that are "beyond the frontiers of the State of Israel."

The Zionists also confirmed the borders of their newly proclaimed state in their letter to President Truman asking for US recognition:

“MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

#3. So this is the map of the borders that the State of Israel accepted. This is the State that was accepted by the UN - shown in blue - and no changes to those borders have ever been recognized:

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/israelborders.php

[AMP 54]

besides that point do do tou not recognize Israel as a state, simple question? yes or no

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

besides that point do do tou not recognize Israel as a state, simple question? yes or no

Do I recognize the state that was recognized by the UN ?

Sure, no problem. Why not ?

Do you recognize the Palestinian state in the rest of the land ?

Edited January 20, 2012 by wife_of_mahmoud

[AMP 54]

great, Im glad to hear that you recognize Israel. now did the Arab (this includes pal) world reject UN res 181? yes or no.

I do recognize that there should be a pal state.

Edited January 20, 2012 by AMP

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

great, Im glad to hear that you recognize Israel. now did the Arab (this includes pal) world reject UN res 181? yes or no.

As I already pointed out, UN 181 was dead in the water. Yes, the Arab states rejected the plan, but it was never implemented anyway.

Again, Israel declared statehood unilaterally - but chose to officially set its borders in accordance with the proposal. So, this is the area that the UN (and the US government) recognized, and I have no problem in recognizing that.

In fact, the Palestinian Authority has officially recognized the State of Israel since 1988 and this has been reaffirmed in every agreement since Oslo.

And since 2002, the entire Arab world has offered to officially recognize Israel and normalize relations upon an agreement for a 2-state solution based on the 1967 armistice lines, a complete withdrawal from occupied territory including East Jerusalem, and a just settlement of the refugee issue. This would effectively sign off legal claim to the areas seized by Israel in 1948, and cede West Jerusalem. This is exactly what the UN has been saying to do ever since 1948.

Israel has yet to reply to the offer.

Now what about you recognizing the Palestinian state in the rest of the land ? I noticed you didn't exactly answer that. Do you accept the borders on the UN map (you know, the borders that you were asking me if I accepted)

Edited January 20, 2012 by wife_of_mahmoud

[AMP 54]

as I stated if its dead in the water then how come it's on the uns website as record?

answer no not the borders you stated. I think that pal and Israel need to sit down and redraw the borders based on a new and binding proposal.

no one can change history and you cannot say something 60yrs ago is still binding after it's been rejected.

Edited January 20, 2012 by AMP

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

as I stated if its dead in the water then how come it's on the uns website as record?

In easy language:

There was a partition plan proposed to the UN General Assembly (UN 181.) The General Assembly approved it and sent it to the Security Council (as required) for implementation.

The Security Council, after much discussion, decided it was a bad idea and would cause endless conflict, so they decided not to implement it and they sent it back to the General Assembly to come up with a different idea to stop the violence that had already started.

All of this is pubic record and in the UN archives.

With the British Mandate expiring, the Zionists went ahead and declared Israel's statehood anyway, but made their claim based on the borders proposed in the plan. Israel later received UN recognition as a state within those borders, upon its agreement to abide by all UN resolutions and covenants.

answer no not the borders you stated. I think that pal and Israel need to sit down and redraw the borders based on a new and binding proposal.

First you said that Israel's existence was set by UN 181. Then you asked me to accept the State of Israel as described by UN 181. I told you I did - no problem. Now you say that's not what you want at all.

There is just no pleasing some people.

[AMP 54]

In easy language:

There was a partition plan proposed to the UN General Assembly (UN 181.) The General Assembly approved it and sent it to the Security Council (as required) for implementation.

The Security Council, after much discussion, decided it was a bad idea and would cause endless conflict, so they decided not to implement it and they sent it back to the General Assembly to come up with a different idea to stop the violence that had already started.

All of this is pubic record and in the UN archives.

With the British Mandate expiring, the Zionists went ahead and declared Israel's statehood anyway, but made their claim based on the borders proposed in the plan. Israel later received UN recognition as a state within those borders, upon its agreement to abide by all UN resolutions and covenants.

First you said that Israel's existence was set by UN 181. Then you asked me to accept the State of Israel as described by UN 181. I told you I did - no problem. Now you say that's not what you want at all.

There is just no pleasing some people.

I call BS from reading 181 thats not what it states and looking at the UN records you interpatation is different than mine or the rest of the world.

2nd No one is going back to the 181 proposal that is in the past and unfortunatly for you we live in the present. You have to take a look at what exists now and work from there. I want to work from 1500 years ago, but is that going to happen, no. so why should i work from something that happend over 60 yers ago?

You are the one being unreasnable. Lets start from the current plan, Isreal will give you back what you have know a safe zone will be enacted by both sides. Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel (all). Israel will provide aid (power and water) for 15 years at that time it expect Pal to be full self reliant.

There we go we have a proposal.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I call BS from reading 181 thats not what it states and looking at the UN records you interpatation is different than mine or the rest of the world.

2nd No one is going back to the 181 proposal that is in the past and unfortunatly for you we live in the present. You have to take a look at what exists now and work from there. I want to work from 1500 years ago, but is that going to happen, no. so why should i work from something that happend over 60 yers ago?

You are the one being unreasnable. Lets start from the current plan, Isreal will give you back what you have know a safe zone will be enacted by both sides. Jerusalem will be the capital of Israel (all). Israel will provide aid (power and water) for 15 years at that time it expect Pal to be full self reliant.

There we go we have a proposal.

Irrelevant. The future is the one-state solution.

[AMP 54]

Irrelevant. The future is the one-state solution.

So all or nothing from you. Nice this is why UN 181 was rejected and everthing after rejected.