Very VERY confused regarding my entry/exit dates...HELP!

[Dewave2 17]

Hi guys,

I have been meaning to make this post for a week or so, however it was such a complicated odd situation, that I really wanted to consult an attorney regarding it first. However, today, they drew a blank also, so I thought I would seek the advice of the wonderful people here!

As per my other threads, I am currently going through AOS from VWP, as I married my USC wife whilst here on this trip. We're currently putting the final details to the paperwork, whilst waiting for the copy of the marriage license to arrive!

So here is where it gets confusing. Please bare with me!

I entered the US this trip on October 20th 2011. I had a return flight booked for January 15th. On December 3rd 2011, I joined my then girlfriend and her family on a cruise to Mexico. This had been booked in the summer of 2011. We left San Diego, and went to Puerta Vallarta for one week. We returned into San Diego on Saturday 10th December 2011. On Saturday morning on the ship a few hours before anyone was allowed to leave the ship, I had to go to an immigration based evaluation, along with almost 200 others. There were 4-5 officials sat at the front of the theatre type space behind a basic desk, and we were being called over one at a time, or if you were with someone else or a family they were calling the whole group over at once. When I approached I handed the guy my passport and he asked where I was from, and how long prior to the cruise I had been in the States. I told him I was from England, and I arrived October 20th on a Visa Waiver. He then asked when I was planning on leaving the states. I told him my return flight was January 15th, leaving from LAX. He flicked through my passport looking at a couple of my previous stamps and finally settled on the page where my picture is, and the page just before this. Under the stamp already on that page he stamped a new stamp and circled the WT part of the stamp. Underneath the stamp, where the 2nd date is, the one that indicates the last day of your 90 day allowance, was blank. He then took his pen and started to copy the date that was under the first stamp on that page (not the one he put there), so therefore, the date that indicated the last day of my 90 day allowance from that stamp. He wrote underneath his stamp: 'March 5th 20' and then he stopped. (Can anyone see the issue??).

The stamp that was originally on that page, was from the year previous, when I entered the US on December 5th 2010. The stamp clearly states I entered LAX on Dec 5th 2010, and my 90 days would expire on March 5th 2011. He asked me again when I entered the country, and I said October 20th. Watching him, and noticing his mistake as he did, I told him that my stamp from this trip, was somewhere in the middle of the passport (I remembered as it was the first time I had a stamp that was place in the middle of two pages, instead of on one) After a bit of searching he finally found it, he examined the dates carefully, and asked me again when my flight out of America was. I told him again, I was leaving January 15th. He went back to his stamp that he had made, and written underneath. Where he had written 'March 5th 20' he put a line through what he had written, and handed me my passport back and nodded me on my way.

So, here is where things get confusing.

Obviously, on my AOS forms, I need to put down the date and place of entry into the States. Now I have always taken this to be October 20th. I guess naively, I have never been on a cruise before, let alone from the US, whilst I was a tourist here. I had no idea what the customs procedures were going to be when I got back to San Deigo, and to be honest, I didn't think about it. From my minimal knowledge, I was always under the impression, that on the VWP, you can't leave the States and go to Mexico and come back, and have your 90 days reset. As I wasn't going to have my days reset anyway, and I was always planning on leaving on the 15th January it hadn't ever crossed my mind as an issue. So firstly I guess. Do I put on my forms my last place and date of entry as Los Angeles - October 20th, or San Deigo - December 10th??

This then leads to my next question. When is my 90 day leave date? Is it January 18th (The date under my stamp from October 20th), March 5th (The date that was written under the San Diego stamp I got before leaving the cruise that was crossed out - I obviously don't think it is this one, but just asking), or, is it 90 days from my last entry stamp which says I entered on December 10th 2011, so 90 days would be March 10th?

My obvious concern is, if I put my entry date as December 10th 2011, and my VWP 90 day leave date as January 18th, they are obviously going to think I have messed something up and decline what I send them.

So. Where do I stand and what do I do?

The attorney was almost as good as useless. He said he wasn't sure, but he was under the impression that as I was on the VWP, they shouldn't have stamped my passport again with a new entry stamp, as obviously leaving to Mexico should reset it, and therefore, as they did stamp it I should just take it that I have 90 days from the day it was stamped. This however...just doesn't ring true with me, and just does;t sound right. the fact that he wasn't certain means I definitely don't want to go by this info.

The other thing I am keeping in mind, is we got married on December 17th 2011. As I wasn't even thinking about the stamp, and certain did not assume of even think that this stamp could possibly mean I was good for another 90 days. If they do take it that I have entered on December 10th, and have 90 days from there, it is going to appear that we got married 7 days after I entered the country...Even though, we had been together ever since October 20th.

This is why I'm getting a bit confused and stressed and can;t seem to find a straight answer!

I'm sorry for the VERY long post, and thank you to anyone who has stuck it out this far! Any help of light that could help be shed on this would be SO greatly appreciated!!

Thank you

[Boiler 45,557]

You entered the country on December the 10th

You married on December 17th.

You have until 18th January.

And you are now filing AoS?

[Dewave2 17]

You entered the country on December the 10th

You married on December 17th.

You have until 18th January.

And you are now filing AoS?

We have been filing for AOS for a little while, everything is practically ready to go, the only thing delaying us is we still haven't received the copy of the marriage license. We were hoping to have this a lot sooner and before January 18th, but it will hopefully be with us this week to send the whole package off!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Dewave: I am not sure anyone here will know the answer, but it's okay. I think you should put a little supplement that says "entered US Oct 20, left for Mexico cruise, reentered US Dec 10." They can figure it which is correct. They can make small corrections in paperwork as long as all the evidence is there and clear. Send in both passport stamps.

[Krikit 1,164]

From the CBP FAQ's:

While in the U.S., you may go to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean and re-enter the U.S. using the I-94W you were issued when you first arrived in the U.S., although the time you spend there is included in the 90 days allotted for your visit. Link

So, in other words, your re-entry did not reset the clock. There have been others on this board who had erroneous information entered into their passports or told to them at the POE. When they stayed beyond their allowed date they got in trouble and their arguments held no water as the rules and regulations are specific and they were expected to know them.

[Krikit 1,164]

As for the form.... I think you should do as Harpa suggests. Spell it out for them.

[Boiler 45,557]

If it was not obvious entering, marrying within a week and then adjusting might be an issue.

Did they ask you anything when you entered?

[Darnell 8,478]

I say your 90 day leave date is January 18th, 2012.

You entered the country on December the 10th

You married on December 17th.

You have until 18th January.

And you are now filing AoS?

There's an October Time Tick in there , somewhere, Boiler. Just saying.

[Dewave2 17]

Dewave: I am not sure anyone here will know the answer, but it's okay. I think you should put a little supplement that says "entered US Oct 20, left for Mexico cruise, reentered US Dec 10." They can figure it which is correct. They can make small corrections in paperwork as long as all the evidence is there and clear. Send in both passport stamps.

Ok, this is what I will do, thank you for the advice. I will add a sheet of paper, explaining the circumstances. Within the documentation I have included a copy of every page of my passport, so both stamps are clearly shown thankfully.

From the CBP FAQ's:

While in the U.S., you may go to Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean and re-enter the U.S. using the I-94W you were issued when you first arrived in the U.S., although the time you spend there is included in the 90 days allotted for your visit. Link

So, in other words, your re-entry did not reset the clock. There have been others on this board who had erroneous information entered into their passports or told to them at the POE. When they stayed beyond their allowed date they got in trouble and their arguments held no water as the rules and regulations are specific and they were expected to know them.

This is pretty much what I was sure of anyway. Which is why I didn't think it would be a problem at all leaving for the cruise and marrying when we returned. As my time isn't reset, hopefully it won't be taken than we married one week after entering the country. I will include a separate sheet to explain the whole situation, and I will keep everyone updated on what takes place. It's just a shame when you pay to see a professional, and then are giving the wrong information. I went to see him more with a view of what to write on the forms. To be told the clock had 'probably' been reset, I knew wasn't right. Thankfully, VJ to the rescue!

If it was not obvious entering, marrying within a week and then adjusting might be an issue.

Did they ask you anything when you entered?

Entered where? Into LA in October, or San Diego in December? If you meant San Diego, the complete dialogue is in my first post in this thread. If you meant LA, they didn't ask anything they haven't asked before in the past, nothing specific. Asked me how old I was, when the last time I was in the States was, and who I was staying with whilst here. That was all when arriving in LA.

I say your 90 day leave date is January 18th, 2012.

There's an October Time Tick in there , somewhere, Boiler. Just saying.

I'm sure that was my 90 day leave date too...it has passed now obviously, so just waiting to get these bloody forms in as soon as possible.

Just curious however, what is an October Time Tick?

[desmond&molly 5]

I can understand why you're concerned since the second date could make it sound like you entered the US with the interion to get married.

I had a slightly similar case. My lawyer put the first date on the paperwork. My passport had a stamp and I-94 saying I arrived at Chicago airport (I'm Mexican so I did have a visitor visa). The I-94 was valid for 3 months. About 2 weeks after arriving I went to Toronto for 1 week. When I entered Canada my passport was stamped with entry visa for Canada. The bus driver told me not to turn in I-94 since I was coming back and within the original time limit. When I re entered the US (3 weeks after arriving at Chicago) the US immigration officer listened to my explanation. Checked my passport, both Canadian & US stamp, visa and I-94. Gave it all back to me WITHOUT writing or stamping anything and waved to the next person in line.

So you see case is different from yours but I would suggest that you put the first date in paperwork. Submit the copies of your passport pages and if it comes up then you have a valid explanation. If writing the explanation on a separate page makes you feel more comfortable then go ahead.

Good luck!

[Boiler 45,557]

The first entry is only relevant in that it time limited your second entry.

You entered as a visitor yet within a week married and then are filing to stay.

That would worry me.

[Dewave2 17]

The first entry is only relevant in that it time limited your second entry.

You entered as a visitor yet within a week married and then are filing to stay.

That would worry me.

It worries me too, hence why I opened this thread.

However, I guess ultimately there is nothing I can do about it now. Hopefully whoever gets the forms will be able to tell the difference between a clean entry and a re-entry based on a holiday that took place with my partner, who I came here to visit. As I would't have gained any advantage by going leaving for Mexico for a week. If my our intentions were not pure, then I'm sure we would have just got married before we left for Mexico, or just not gone at all. As far as I can tell, there would be no benefit to someone with less than pure intentions to leave for Mexico and then come back on a VWP and then get married a week after getting back.

I guess all I can do is keep my fingers crossed that this also comes across as the case to whoever goes through the paperwork. Especially as I shouldn't have ultimately received a new stamp when coming back into San Diego, so therefore I will make this as clear as I can in the supporting writing I provide, and that for me, and legally as far as my knowledge provides, my 90 days started when I entered on October 20th, and this hasn't been changed by the stamp I received at San Diego.

I will obviously let you all know how it turns out!

Fingers crossed!

[Boiler 45,557]

Once you have been to the US once, all you subsequent entries could be described as re-entries.

Your entry from the UK terminated when you left for Mexico, very few people would stay for 90 days.

Your last entry was from Mexico, now whilst it is normal for VWP entrants to be given 90 days there are exceptions where a reduced period is given, you were one.

A B2 entrant, or re-entrant is normally given 6 months, but that is not always the case. I have seen everything from 1 day to 1 year.