A return to "Operation Wetback"?

[homesick_american 1]

Please, I am so tired of people playing the race card whenever someone says they're against illegal immigration. If you have to call someone a racist, you've immediately lost the arguemnt.

why is that? do you honestly think all of the "anti-illegal" crowd is as pure as you are?

if so, i got a bridge I can sell ya.

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

E.T.: yawn away. new parents are exceused!

Daniel

:energetic:

So, you're going to taint us all with the same stain? Brilliant.

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as someone accuses me of being racist when arguing about immigration, the argument's over. If people want to discuss it without name-calling, I'm all for that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

What kind of "win-win" do you have in mind that doesn't include a reward for those that trample(d) on the law? We've had those "win-win's" before and those got us where we are today.

[pedroh 21]

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

What kind of "win-win" do you have in mind that doesn't include a reward for those that trample(d) on the law? We've had those "win-win's" before and those got us where we are today.

ORLY?! how many amnesties have been? I only recall the Reagan amnesty.. before that.. well, I wasn't born yet lawl

but the matter here is that Hoover's operation wetback was wrong and unfair.. and I think the govt learned how not to repeat it, and avoid those mistakes they committed

zomg!!! ROFLMAO

how to talk like a wetback! roflmao

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

What kind of "win-win" do you have in mind that doesn't include a reward for those that trample(d) on the law? We've had those "win-win's" before and those got us where we are today.

ORLY?! how many amnesties have been? I only recall the Reagan amnesty.. before that.. well, I wasn't born yet lawl

You were around in Dec 2000, no? Clinton signed that amnesty into law. LIFE Act. Look it up.

[pedroh 21]

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

What kind of "win-win" do you have in mind that doesn't include a reward for those that trample(d) on the law? We've had those "win-win's" before and those got us where we are today.

ORLY?! how many amnesties have been? I only recall the Reagan amnesty.. before that.. well, I wasn't born yet lawl

You were around in Dec 2000, no? Clinton signed that amnesty into law. LIFE Act. Look it up.

oh yea i forgot.. where they had to pay 'the fine' of like 2000 bucks and then get papers.. my bad

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

Please, I am so tired of people playing the race card whenever someone says they're against illegal immigration. If you have to call someone a racist, you've immediately lost the arguemnt.

why is that? do you honestly think all of the "anti-illegal" crowd is as pure as you are?

if so, i got a bridge I can sell ya.

my opinions is that we do have a problem, just that we do not need bad "solutions". and a lot of solutions being bantered about stem from fear rather than objective look at the situation with an eye for a "win-win" solution.

E.T.: yawn away. new parents are exceused!

Daniel

:energetic:

So, you're going to taint us all with the same stain? Brilliant.

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as someone accuses me of being racist when arguing about immigration, the argument's over. If people want to discuss it without name-calling, I'm all for that.

Nope, personally, never called you a racist. I stop discussing things when name calling begins too. Perhaps you read the part in the article where a border resident expressed his setiments and translated as a a name calling on my part onto you. In any case, I do not think that you are racist.

Do you think any portion of the "anti-illegal" crowd is racist?

ET: If I were smart enough to have the answer I'd probably would be candidate for a Nobel prize for sumthn or another. I'll I can say about the currently proposed solutions seem bandaid-sh to me. And sometimes we have to accept some losses(eg. granting current illegals some kind amnesty) for a bigger win. Dunno what it is going to take.

Daniel

:energetic:

[homesick_american 1]

Nope, personally, never called you a racist. I stop discussing things when name calling begins too. Perhaps you read the part in the article where a border resident expressed his setiments and translated as a a name calling on my part onto you. In any case, I do not think that you are racist.

Do you think any portion of the "anti-illegal" crowd is racist?

Sure, probably; but I don't run with a 'crowd' so I wouldn't know. I've been in the UK for the last five years. All I have here is an opinion; haven't joined any groups, haven't been to any marches.

ET: If I were smart enough to have the answer I'd probably would be candidate for a Nobel prize for sumthn or another. I'll I can say about the currently proposed solutions seem bandaid-sh to me. And sometimes we have to accept some losses(eg. granting current illegals some kind amnesty) for a bigger win. Dunno what it is going to take.

Daniel

:energetic:

I think if we grant any of them amnesty, they'll all demand it and things will get ugly. I say no amnesty for anyone. I don't see why we should reward illegal behavior, especially since it's not like the ones serving bans in their countries are going to get pardoned or anything. Just the ones who've CONTINUED to break the law by remaining in the US will get rewarded...I find that unacceptable.

At this point I'm even against a guest worker program, mainly because it drags down wages for American workers.

[pedroh 21]

Nope, personally, never called you a racist. I stop discussing things when name calling begins too. Perhaps you read the part in the article where a border resident expressed his setiments and translated as a a name calling on my part onto you. In any case, I do not think that you are racist.

Do you think any portion of the "anti-illegal" crowd is racist?

Sure, probably; but I don't run with a 'crowd' so I wouldn't know. I've been in the UK for the last five years. All I have here is an opinion; haven't joined any groups, haven't been to any marches.

ET: If I were smart enough to have the answer I'd probably would be candidate for a Nobel prize for sumthn or another. I'll I can say about the currently proposed solutions seem bandaid-sh to me. And sometimes we have to accept some losses(eg. granting current illegals some kind amnesty) for a bigger win. Dunno what it is going to take.

Daniel

:energetic:

I think if we grant any of them amnesty, they'll all demand it and things will get ugly. I say no amnesty for anyone. I don't see why we should reward illegal behavior, especially since it's not like the ones serving bans in their countries are going to get pardoned or anything. Just the ones who've CONTINUED to break the law by remaining in the US will get rewarded...I find that unacceptable.

At this point I'm even against a guest worker program, mainly because it drags down wages for American workers.

guest worker programs are already being implemented, farms here in NC bring a bunch of people from MExico, for 8 months, they go back, and they come back, every year.. yes, they live like animals, their employers treat them like #######, but oh well, its still better money..

[homesick_american 1]

guest worker programs are already being implemented, farms here in NC bring a bunch of people from MExico, for 8 months, they go back, and they come back, every year.. yes, they live like animals, their employers treat them like #######, but oh well, its still better money..

I think that's immoral. They want to increase their profit margins by employing vulnerable people and since there are always plenty of illegals coming over willing to do these jobs, there's no pressure on the employers to change since most Americans wouldn't stand for that. It's not that they're doing the jobs we're 'unwilling' to do; they're doing the jobs we're unwilling to do for slave wages and inhumane conditions. Doesn't make it right.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

guest worker programs are already being implemented, farms here in NC bring a bunch of people from MExico, for 8 months, they go back, and they come back, every year.. yes, they live like animals, their employers treat them like #######, but oh well, its still better money..

I think that's immoral. They want to increase their profit margins by employing vulnerable people and since there are always plenty of illegals coming over willing to do these jobs, there's no pressure on the employers to change since most Americans wouldn't stand for that. It's not that they're doing the jobs we're 'unwilling' to do; they're doing the jobs we're unwilling to do for slave wages and inhumane conditions. Doesn't make it right.

you got that right. it seems too complicated to me. i can't see the business (agriculture, and other 'low' paying industries paying much more and staying in business. even if they were to try to pass the cost onto the consumer... i think there would be a big backlash against the price increase. so, if that happens, what would the business do? Revert to cheap (aka illegal imm) labor or move off shore. If they do the former, we are back to square one. If they do the latter it will be more hell to take for the off shoring of a very important industry (the agriculture industry). I have not even thought about what it would mean to the restaurant and hotel and naitorial businesses.

anybody want to give it a stab?

Daniel

:energetic:

[homesick_american 1]

you got that right. it seems too complicated to me. i can't see the business (agriculture, and other 'low' paying industries paying much more and staying in business. even if they were to try to pass the cost onto the consumer... i think there would be a big backlash against the price increase. so, if that happens, what would the business do? Revert to cheap (aka illegal imm) labor or move off shore. If they do the former, we are back to square one. If they do the latter it will be more hell to take for the off shoring of a very important industry (the agriculture industry). I have not even thought about what it would mean to the restaurant and hotel and naitorial businesses.

anybody want to give it a stab?

Daniel

:energetic:

The US makes too much money off agricultural exports to just stop growing produce, and you can't offshore picking fruits and vegetables.

[AnaAndDaniel 0]

you got that right. it seems too complicated to me. i can't see the business (agriculture, and other 'low' paying industries paying much more and staying in business. even if they were to try to pass the cost onto the consumer... i think there would be a big backlash against the price increase. so, if that happens, what would the business do? Revert to cheap (aka illegal imm) labor or move off shore. If they do the former, we are back to square one. If they do the latter it will be more hell to take for the off shoring of a very important industry (the agriculture industry). I have not even thought about what it would mean to the restaurant and hotel and naitorial businesses.

anybody want to give it a stab?

Daniel

:energetic:

The US makes too much money off agricultural exports to just stop growing produce, and you can't offshore picking fruits and vegetables.

right again. what i refered to as off shoring the ag biz was moving the entire operation elsewhere, wherever that may be. all ready we import a lot of food. i know this is oversimplified, but it would be as simple as setting up shop in other countries and exporting it to the US. I just don't see it happening though. Money and 'security' issues. Some solution will be reached so that it stays here, profitible, and cheap for the consumer.

Daniel

:energetic:

[pedroh 21]

you got that right. it seems too complicated to me. i can't see the business (agriculture, and other 'low' paying industries paying much more and staying in business. even if they were to try to pass the cost onto the consumer... i think there would be a big backlash against the price increase. so, if that happens, what would the business do? Revert to cheap (aka illegal imm) labor or move off shore. If they do the former, we are back to square one. If they do the latter it will be more hell to take for the off shoring of a very important industry (the agriculture industry). I have not even thought about what it would mean to the restaurant and hotel and naitorial businesses.

anybody want to give it a stab?

Daniel

:energetic:

The US makes too much money off agricultural exports to just stop growing produce, and you can't offshore picking fruits and vegetables.

err, panama, banana republic? lawl

[Traviesa 0]

guest worker programs are already being implemented, farms here in NC bring a bunch of people from MExico, for 8 months, they go back, and they come back, every year.. yes, they live like animals, their employers treat them like #######, but oh well, its still better money..

I think that's immoral. They want to increase their profit margins by employing vulnerable people and since there are always plenty of illegals coming over willing to do these jobs, there's no pressure on the employers to change since most Americans wouldn't stand for that. It's not that they're doing the jobs we're 'unwilling' to do; they're doing the jobs we're unwilling to do for slave wages and inhumane conditions. Doesn't make it right.

Not all work like that. When Javier was here he made more than twice as much as I do as a professional Accountant, working as a waiter. Back in Mexico, working the same hours, he makes one sixth of what I make.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

ET: If I were smart enough to have the answer I'd probably would be candidate for a Nobel prize for sumthn or another. I'll I can say about the currently proposed solutions seem bandaid-sh to me. And sometimes we have to accept some losses(eg. granting current illegals some kind amnesty) for a bigger win. Dunno what it is going to take.

I don't think that an amnesty needs to be part of the solution for a bigger win. I think another amnesty is going to accomplish only one thing: generate more illegals down the road. The last two have done that and there's nothing that indicates that the next amnesty would do anything different.

What needs to happen is severe punishment for employers that hire folks that are not authorized to work ion the US. No slaps on the wrist. Severe punishment in terms of monetary penalties that would offset 10 times the gains made by employing illegals plus a flony conviction on the executive's record. I'd like to see some jail time, too.

Let's start there and see where that gets us. A new approach is needed. Not more of the same.