I-864 Affidavit of Support

[dukeandduchess 141]

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Some of the replies indicate how misunderstood this contract is, and that is because the consequences are not well explained in the form's instructions, and in fact, have taken a long time to be worked out even in the courts.

The contract does not only apply to government-provided payments and services.

Yes, the government and other agencies (such as hospitals) can sue you to recover services provided to the sponsored immigrants.

But in addition, unless one of the release conditions are met, each sponsored immigrant may sue you annually for the rest of their lives for support up to the 125% poverty level in state and/or federal courts.

Divorce and re-marriage to do not release you from the I-864, and it may be particularly dangerous for the sponsor if there are stepchildren named as sponsored immigrants, or if the ex-spouse simply decides to live outside of marriage and collect support from the petitioner endlessly.

You need to search the Internet and read some of the legal case histories on this contract to find out what a nightmare it can be, such as Stump v. Stump.

It is unfortunate that the nasty hooks in the I-864 are not revealed early in the K-1 process, because this form comes into play much later on.

I would guess that 95% of K-1 petitioners are not aware of all the risks.

It is not simply a question of being a coward about marriage for several reasons. For example, a conventional marriage does not obligate a spouse to provide never-ending support to stepchildren after the marriage has ended. But the I-864 does.

I think most people would agree that some of the terms of the I-864 are totally unreasonable.

Would you consider it to be more reasonable that the taxpayers potentially be on the hook for supporting a divorced immigrant that somebody else sponsored to come to the US?

Anyone sponsoring any family based immigrant must sign an I-864. This isn't restricted to K1 petitioners.

There have been few cases where an immigrant obtained enforcement action on an I-864 without having to bring a separate civil suit against the petitioner. Few family courts are willing to consider the I-864 in divorce proceedings because the family code in most states doesn't allow for consideration of such contracts. There have been exceptions, but they're not common.

I also suggest you read Cheshire v. Cheshire. Judge Corrigan determined that Walter Cheshire was on the hook for nearly six years of support payments to his ex-wife Maria Cheshire, to the tune of over $50K. Then he adjusted the debt according to the amount Maria Cheshire earned during that time, as well as her assets, citing Wheeler v. Wheeler, which left Mr. Cheshire with a total debt of about $8.3K. That's not chicken scratch, but it's an important factor which was also found in other cases - the immigrant's income and assets are to be deducted from the payments ordered from the sponsor. 125% of the current poverty guidelines for one person is $13,612. That's not much money. A person working a full time job at minimum wage will earn substantially more than that. You won't find too many people who would be comfortable sitting on their tails and collecting $13K per year unless they're happy living in a 20ft trailer in rural Arkansas. Most immigrants who want a decent standard of living would earn more than that, and would be eligible for nothing from their sponsors.

In Sandhu v. Sandhu, the Kansas State Court of Appeals found that Emrinder Sandhu failed to show that her income was below 125% of the poverty guidelines, and they denied her appeal to have the affidavit of support enforced.

Immigrants with decent jobs cannot sue for support based on the affidavit of support, regardless of how many quarters of work credits they've accumulated through SSA. Immigrants who cannot maintain themselves at a level of at least 125% of the poverty guidelines should be supported by the sponsor in order to ensure they don't end up being supported by the taxpayers.

[Rufus2012 175]

Someone has pre-wedding jitters....

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Some of the replies indicate how misunderstood this contract is, and that is because the consequences are not well explained in the form's instructions, and in fact, have taken a long time to be worked out even in the courts.

The contract does not only apply to government-provided payments and services.

Yes, the government and other agencies (such as hospitals) can sue you to recover services provided to the sponsored immigrants.

But in addition, unless one of the release conditions are met, each sponsored immigrant may sue you annually for the rest of their lives for support up to the 125% poverty level in state and/or federal courts.

Divorce and re-marriage to do not release you from the I-864, and it may be particularly dangerous for the sponsor if there are stepchildren named as sponsored immigrants, or if the ex-spouse simply decides to live outside of marriage and collect support from the petitioner endlessly.

You need to search the Internet and read some of the legal case histories on this contract to find out what a nightmare it can be, such as Stump v. Stump.

It is unfortunate that the nasty hooks in the I-864 are not revealed early in the K-1 process, because this form comes into play much later on.

I would guess that 95% of K-1 petitioners are not aware of all the risks.

It is not simply a question of being a coward about marriage for several reasons. For example, a conventional marriage does not obligate a spouse to provide never-ending support to stepchildren after the marriage has ended. But the I-864 does.

I think most people would agree that some of the terms of the I-864 are totally unreasonable.

I do not. I have a wonderful wife who will be a citizen in two weeks, I am not too worried. Had I not signed the contract that would not be the case. If you do not want to, then don't.

Given all involved with a family and marriage I do not see this as an issue let alone a "risk"

I am guessing the mortgage we signed has more possible consequences, I wish THAT went away n two weeks.

I am curious though, what exactly is your issue? I highly doubt it is public service and to inform the poor ignorant masses with your superior intelligence (thank you BTW) so what is it?

You couldn't meet the criteria and now you are PO'd? You are a lawyer looking for clients? What's the deal?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

So, for example, if we get married and she gets her EAD - Then, she goes on unemployment due to a job loss, and let's just say I go on unemployment too. Does that mean that whatever I get from unemployment goes directly to her?

I use an example like this because of the stories I've heard from downsizing. Typically, it's not both at the same time, but you never know...

No Unemployment is not a means tested benefit. The I-864 will have little affect on your life.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Would you consider it to be more reasonable that the taxpayers potentially be on the hook for supporting a divorced immigrant that somebody else sponsored to come to the US?

Anyone sponsoring any family based immigrant must sign an I-864. This isn't restricted to K1 petitioners.

There have been few cases where an immigrant obtained enforcement action on an I-864 without having to bring a separate civil suit against the petitioner. Few family courts are willing to consider the I-864 in divorce proceedings because the family code in most states doesn't allow for consideration of such contracts. There have been exceptions, but they're not common.

I also suggest you read Cheshire v. Cheshire. Judge Corrigan determined that Walter Cheshire was on the hook for nearly six years of support payments to his ex-wife Maria Cheshire, to the tune of over $50K. Then he adjusted the debt according to the amount Maria Cheshire earned during that time, as well as her assets, citing Wheeler v. Wheeler, which left Mr. Cheshire with a total debt of about $8.3K. That's not chicken scratch, but it's an important factor which was also found in other cases - the immigrant's income and assets are to be deducted from the payments ordered from the sponsor. 125% of the current poverty guidelines for one person is $13,612. That's not much money. A person working a full time job at minimum wage will earn substantially more than that. You won't find too many people who would be comfortable sitting on their tails and collecting $13K per year unless they're happy living in a 20ft trailer in rural Arkansas. Most immigrants who want a decent standard of living would earn more than that, and would be eligible for nothing from their sponsors.

In Sandhu v. Sandhu, the Kansas State Court of Appeals found that Emrinder Sandhu failed to show that her income was below 125% of the poverty guidelines, and they denied her appeal to have the affidavit of support enforced.

Immigrants with decent jobs cannot sue for support based on the affidavit of support, regardless of how many quarters of work credits they've accumulated through SSA. Immigrants who cannot maintain themselves at a level of at least 125% of the poverty guidelines should be supported by the sponsor in order to ensure they don't end up being supported by the taxpayers.

Jim, it is a thoughtful and informative response as always. Your contributions are very valuable.

I suspect this OP has an axe to grind and is not interested in facts, he is interested in distorting facts or making more of it than it is. There was another member here who had a bad experience with his fiancee (she dumped him) and then he went on to post about the dangers of foreign women etc.

The OP is a new member and his first posts are about the dangers of the I-864?

There is another agenda at work here, period.

It is a big scarey world out there and getting married and having a family involves all sorts of risks and liabilities because we ARE grown ups and we ARE responsible for what we do. The I-864 holds the petitioner responsible for his actions, financially. If you are not prepared to do that, don;t get married.

Personally it means nothing to me as my own commitment to my family far outweighs and outlasts anything on this piece of paper. "'Til death do us part" remember? For me that has meaning.

[bigdog 376]

Marriage and support has it risks, sorry if your went bad. As long as they don't apply for government benefits you are OK. In the application process you get two shots to back out at the K-1 and AOS. Their still is divorce court or Judge Judy. Lots of us on VJ ended up just fine, better than fine, great, good luck.

Jim, it is a thoughtful and informative response as always. Your contributions are very valuable.

I suspect this OP has an axe to grind and is not interested in facts, he is interested in distorting facts or making more of it than it is. There was another member here who had a bad experience with his fiancee (she dumped him) and then he went on to post about the dangers of foreign women etc.

The OP is a new member and his first posts are about the dangers of the I-864?

There is another agenda at work here, period.

It is a big scarey world out there and getting married and having a family involves all sorts of risks and liabilities because we ARE grown ups and we ARE responsible for what we do. The I-864 holds the petitioner responsible for his actions, financially. If you are not prepared to do that, don;t get married.

Personally it means nothing to me as my own commitment to my family far outweighs and outlasts anything on this piece of paper. "'Til death do us part" remember? For me that has meaning.

Well said.

[TraciB 0]

Some of the replies indicate how misunderstood this contract is, and that is because the consequences are not well explained in the form's instructions, and in fact, have taken a long time to be worked out even in the courts.

The contract does not only apply to government-provided payments and services.

Yes, the government and other agencies (such as hospitals) can sue you to recover services provided to the sponsored immigrants.

But in addition, unless one of the release conditions are met, each sponsored immigrant may sue you annually for the rest of their lives for support up to the 125% poverty level in state and/or federal courts.

Divorce and re-marriage to do not release you from the I-864, and it may be particularly dangerous for the sponsor if there are stepchildren named as sponsored immigrants, or if the ex-spouse simply decides to live outside of marriage and collect support from the petitioner endlessly.

You need to search the Internet and read some of the legal case histories on this contract to find out what a nightmare it can be, such as Stump v. Stump.

It is unfortunate that the nasty hooks in the I-864 are not revealed early in the K-1 process, because this form comes into play much later on.

I would guess that 95% of K-1 petitioners are not aware of all the risks.

It is not simply a question of being a coward about marriage for several reasons. For example, a conventional marriage does not obligate a spouse to provide never-ending support to stepchildren after the marriage has ended. But the I-864 does.

I think most people would agree that some of the terms of the I-864 are totally unreasonable.

Search the internet? Since when is everything you read on the internet "factual". Bottom line, you HAVE to sign the I-864 to get your loved one here. Nothing worth having comes free of risks! If you are in this "game" you have to be willing to sign. Why keep debating something we have no choice in??

[Ryan H 3,812]

Anyone sponsoring any family based immigrant must sign an I-864. This isn't restricted to K1 petitioners.

Topic moved from K1 Process & Procedures to General Immigration-Related Discussion for reason stated above.

[san diego 407]

So??? I am paying $2,000 alimony to my ex wife... Any marriage is a potential liability. Much greater than I864.

[Sirdaniel42 86]

[Pinoylover 6]

All i can say is know your partner very well before you marry her/him because if it doesn't work out and they become bums you will be the one who will pay. My first one left me but hasn't done anything as of yet but knowing her as i do she's lazy and I'll probably have to pay for her sometime in the near future, unless i can trick her into going home or she finds a man to support her then she will not do anything. But I'm doing it all over again but have done my homework on this and know my fiancee very well! Let's just say i can sleep at night without worrying what she's doing there and i know now i should have chose her over my Ex in the beginning. I will say this too this site here has even helped me on some issue's you can learn a lot on here. Thanks

[Rufus2012 175]

Jim, it is a thoughtful and informative response as always. Your contributions are very valuable.

I suspect this OP has an axe to grind and is not interested in facts, he is interested in distorting facts or making more of it than it is. There was another member here who had a bad experience with his fiancee (she dumped him) and then he went on to post about the dangers of foreign women etc.

The OP is a new member and his first posts are about the dangers of the I-864?

There is another agenda at work here, period.

It is a big scarey world out there and getting married and having a family involves all sorts of risks and liabilities because we ARE grown ups and we ARE responsible for what we do. The I-864 holds the petitioner responsible for his actions, financially. If you are not prepared to do that, don;t get married.

Personally it means nothing to me as my own commitment to my family far outweighs and outlasts anything on this piece of paper. "'Til death do us part" remember? For me that has meaning.

+1 on Jim's contributions. The dude knows everything and he can articulate it very effectively. I suspect Jim is not a real person, rather, he is a computer with a damned good natural language subsystem and memory to burn. Or, he's one of the few immigration attorneys worth their salt.

If the OP does have an axe to grind, it's not clear to me what it is. Life is full of risk, I suppose it's safer to stay in mom's basement, waiting for her to go shopping so you can ####### once in a while, but me, I'd rather take the risk and get married.

So??? I am paying $2,000 alimony to my ex wife... Any marriage is a potential liability. Much greater than I864.

Ouch, that hurts. But your point is a very valid one - community property laws are going to kill you far more than the 864 ever could.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

You are more likely to be in serious trouble for getting married.

The I-864 is terminated when they become citizens, mine will terminate in two weeks (not that I care about the I-864)

Peddle the poisons somewhere else. Getting married is not for cowards.

Well said!

And what does a sponsor want? To have the rest of us support (via our taxes) your failure??

[Nan & Mario 0]

Why does bringing the parents over has a lot to do with this Form?

I'm in the process of saving to request my mother in law..

No. As long as you are still married, and not legally separated, you sink or swim together.

Where the I-864 can really get you in trouble, is later, when she brings her parents over.