Op-Ed: Rise of Islamist movements casts shadow over Egypt

[ready4ONE 5,400]

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse)

There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."

Traditionalist orthodox Muslims generally claim that the Hadith literature contains the authentic sayings of Muhammad. Many liberal Muslims doubt their authenticity. The latter might point out that during the times of the first Caliphs, Muslims did not know what to do with individuals guilty of "liwat/lutiyya". No sahabi (companion) of Muhammad could quote a saying or decision of Muhammad relating to this question.

Treatment of homosexuals within Islam:

According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. 5 Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty:

The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.

The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.

The Sha'fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.

Excerpt from: http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hadith aren't controlling of the laws. Besides, the fact that the great majority of Muslim nations dont treat homosexuals as criminals is more telling than random ahadith or whats on any website.

Boo, they didnt mention my school

The Hadith and homosexuality: The Hadith are collections of sayings attributed to Muhammad. Many Hadiths (ahadith) discuss liwat (sexual intercourse between males). Two examples are:

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual intercourse)

There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith: "Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual intercourse) among them."

Traditionalist orthodox Muslims generally claim that the Hadith literature contains the authentic sayings of Muhammad. Many liberal Muslims doubt their authenticity. The latter might point out that during the times of the first Caliphs, Muslims did not know what to do with individuals guilty of "liwat/lutiyya". No sahabi (companion) of Muhammad could quote a saying or decision of Muhammad relating to this question.

Treatment of homosexuals within Islam:

According to a pamphlet produced by Al-Fatiha, there is a consensus among Islamic scholars that all humans are naturally heterosexual. 5 Homosexuality is seen by scholars to be a sinful and perverted deviation from the norm. All Islamic schools of thought and jurisprudence consider gay acts to be unlawful. They differ in terms of penalty:

The Hanafite school (currently seen mainly in South and Eastern Asia) teaches that no physical punishment is warranted.

The Hanabalites, (widely followed in the Arab world) teach that severe punishment is warranted.

The Sha'fi school of thought (also seen in the Arab world) requires a minimum of 4 adult male witnesses before a person can be found guilty of a homosexual act. Al-Fatiha estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.

Excerpt from: http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/homosexuality.htm

Edited January 21, 2012 by Sofiyya

[Pooky 3,828]

"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."

That's just good advice. Don't do it in a bathroom with a loose toilet bowl ... on said toilet

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

That's just good advice. Don't do it in a bathroom with a loose toilet bowl ... on said toilet

I thought that only applied in Minnesota's airports.

[Pooky 3,828]

I thought that only applied in Minnesota's airports.

I really doubt that Minnesota has a lock on poorly installed toilets.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

do you really think you are in any position to hurl "hadith, hadith!!" at anyone here? do you have the slightest comprehension of what a hadith is, or how any hadith applies to muslims' lives in 2012? islamic jurisprudence goes well beyond people screeching muslim buzzwords at each other without the foggiest idea about what they really mean, how they are used appropriately, or if they're even referring to a hadith that's authentic in the first place.

So, if I am to understand you, the Hadith Qudsi no longer apply in 2012? Let's just dispense with the whole Qur'an while we're at it. Fatwa, fathead, what's the difference, New Age Islam, catch it!

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

I really doubt that Minnesota has a lock on poorly installed toilets.

Gives new meaning to the term wide-tracking. A cottaging we will go!

[sandinista! 1,816]

So, if I am to understand you, the Hadith Qudsi no longer apply in 2012? Let's just dispense with the whole Qur'an while we're at it. Fatwa, fathead, what's the difference, New Age Islam, catch it!

i said no such thing at all. your straw grasping remains as tedious and boring as ever, i see. just as there's a science to authenticating hadith, there's also a science to how it is interpreted, in the context of different societies, governments, both islamic and non islamic, etc. for the last 1400+ years, scholars have taken numerous factors into consideration when interpreting the law and how it should be implemented and enforced. one of the most notorious examples of this was when umar suspended the punishment for theft during a famine.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I see this Islamist Movement moving the Muslim countries from the 15th century back to the 9th. It's like they go one step forward and two steps back. In the meantime Muslims will keep flooding the West like they have for decades now while praising Allah. It never changes. If Islam is so great why immigrate in droves to the West?

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

i said no such thing at all. your straw grasping remains as tedious and boring as ever, i see. just as there's a science to authenticating hadith, there's also a science to how it is interpreted, in the context of different societies, governments, both islamic and non islamic, etc. for the last 1400+ years, scholars have taken numerous factors into consideration when interpreting the law and how it should be implemented and enforced. one of the most notorious examples of this was when umar suspended the punishment for theft during a famine.

Paradoxically you respond by trying to tergiversate. Typical of the peanut gallery response. Stand by your words, you were the one who questioned the applicability of the Hadith in 2012, or do you deny that as well as? You still skirt the issue of the Hadith Qudsi. If you want to get into a long and rancorous debate about interpretation and the whole science of Itjihad, fair enough, but don't even try to justify the barbaric and utterly Un-Islamic actions of some nutjobs who will interpret things as they see fit based on so-called Islamic principles. Scholars interpret scripture according to their wishes and desires, that's a fact but you questioned the fundamental Hadiths that underpin Islam.

BTW, you are clearly under the delusion that you are e.e. cummings, you are not, therefore I will issue a fatwa commanding the faithful, or you as the case may be, to use proper punctuation or get your shift key fixed.

[Nagishkaw 510]

I see this Islamist Movement moving the Muslim countries from the 15th century back to the 9th. It's like they go one step forward and two steps back. In the meantime Muslims will keep flooding the West like they have for decades now while praising Allah. It never changes. If Islam is so great why immigrate in droves to the West?

Haven't you seen the thread about the woman with two #######'s ?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

i said no such thing at all. your straw grasping remains as tedious and boring as ever, i see. just as there's a science to authenticating hadith, there's also a science to how it is interpreted, in the context of different societies, governments, both islamic and non islamic, etc. for the last 1400+ years, scholars have taken numerous factors into consideration when interpreting the law and how it should be implemented and enforced. one of the most notorious examples of this was when umar suspended the punishment for theft during a famine.

Umar also forbade marriage between Muslim men and non-Muslim women, which is allowed, under limited circumstances, n the Qur'an. In doing so, as a Sahaba, he set a precedent for discouraging it by contemporary jurists.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I see this Islamist Movement moving the Muslim countries from the 15th century back to the 9th. It's like they go one step forward and two steps back. In the meantime Muslims will keep flooding the West like they have for decades now while praising Allah. It never changes. If Islam is so great why immigrate in droves to the West?

How does ones religion limit them geographicaly?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

How does ones religion limit them geographicaly?

Logic would have it that they would want to be where Islamic Law, and Islamic government is the norm, majority... whatever. I mean why move to secular west where we actually invent things and fly to space while discovering new medical procedures all the time. Who wants that when they can wear a blanket over their head and go to jail for having sex out of wedlock.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Why_Me

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Umar also forbade marriage between Muslim men and non-Muslim women, which is allowed, under limited circumstances, n the Qur'an. In doing so, as a Sahaba, he set a precedent for discouraging it by contemporary jurists.

Safiyya bint Huyayy ring a bell? You keep sticking with Umar, never mind the Sunnah and the Qur'an.