Op-Ed: Rise of Islamist movements casts shadow over Egypt

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Yes indeed discrimination against gays is a universal religious tenet. Only one still calls for the death penalty in the modern era, although I grant you that it varies across the various sub-groups amongst said religious faith and is therefor not universal across Islam. Wonder why Palestinians follow Jordanian law though?

The passages in Leviticus haven't been removed from the Bible, so you might as well say the same thing about Judaism and Christianity "calling for the death penalty" for homosexuality. Of course different religious leaders interpret the texts in different ways - but there certainly are some Jews and Christians who would say capital punishment for gays is God's command.

Regarding the law - Palestinians were under Jordanian law in the 1950s because of the Jordanian occupation - that's when the anti-sodomy laws were removed.

But now Palestinians are governed by the Basic Law of Palestine (passed by the Palestinian Authority as a temporary constitution in 1997) as well as subject to military orders administered by the Israeli army.

http://www.palestinianbasiclaw.org/

Guys great to hear you follow Jordanian law, it seems thats what Jordainins should do. But please be aware that this tread is about Egypt. Im sure they are not going to follow Jordanian law.

Jordanian

Please try to keep up with the discussion. I was directly answering Ready4ONE, and I even quoted him in my response to help you follow along.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I am not sure the Westborough Baptists are the ones Islam wants to hold up as example and say "Some Christians are as bad as we are" in relationship to theological parity regarding gays.

I suppose I misspoke though and meant actually imposing religious based death penalties for being gay. Only one religion does that, although obviously not universally.

The Bible is indeed unkind in respecting gay rights, womens rights etc.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I am not sure the Westborough Baptists are the ones Islam wants to hold up as example and say "Some Christians are as bad as we are" in relationship to theological parity regarding gays.

I suppose I misspoke though and meant actually imposing religious based death penalties for being gay. Only one religion does that, although obviously not universally.

The Bible is indeed unkind in respecting gay rights, womens rights etc.

How is "Islam" holding up this dude on a website as an example ?

Religion does not impose death penalties; humans do. There are 7 countries in the world in which this sentence *may* be imposed for homosexuality (it is not always the case, as some countries have other options as well) - yes, they are all considered Muslim countries, but they are not the majority of Muslim countries; they are by far the minority.

In most of the Muslim countries that *do* have laws against homosexuality (not all of them do,) the penalties are far less severe than those in the many Caribbean countries that also outlaw gay activity. For instance, homosexuals can get life in prison in Barbados or Guyana, or 25 years in Trinidad.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

If all of the countries with potential death penalties for homosexuality are Muslim, there could be a link no?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

If all of the countries with potential death penalties for homosexuality are Muslim, there could be a link no?

This sounds disturbingly like.... "If all of the countries with the extremest poverty are sub-Saharan "black" African countries, could there be a link ?"

[ready4ONE 5,400]

This sounds disturbingly like.... "If all of the countries with the extremest poverty are sub-Saharan "black" African countries, could there be a link ?"

No it doesn't because the death penalty laws on the books in Muslim countries are clearly based on Islamic teachings. Difficult to work around some inconvenient truths.

The link in my post is to modern laws fashioned after pre-medieval religious teachings, not race.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

No it doesn't because the death penalty laws on the books in Muslim countries are clearly based on Islamic teachings. Difficult to work around some inconvenient truths.

The link in my post is to modern laws fashioned after pre-medieval religious teachings, not race.

Where exactly in the Qur’an does it say there is a death penalty for homosexuality ?

And where did you get the idea that the likes of Saudi Arabia and Yemen are any kind of example of the consensus of Islamic jurisprudence ?

Seven Muslim countries have a death penalty for homosexual activity. 43 don’t. So this is by far the minority, and not at all the widely accepted view. Why is that ? Could it possibly be because it’s not representative of what “Islamic teaching” means to the majority of Muslims ?

[Nagishkaw 510]

Where exactly in the Qur’an does it say there is a death penalty for homosexuality ?

It doesn't. But if the quran is the complete guide to life according to muhammed, then clearly this is a contradiction and the quran sells itself short.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Nagishkaw

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It doesn't.

You win a

But if the quran is the complete guide to life according to muhammed, then clearly this is a contradiction and the quran sells itself short.

What is the contradiction ?

[Nagishkaw 510]

You win a

Posting in this thread is a game? A competition where winners get a star and losers get what... humiliated ?

What is the contradiction ?

You are a grow woman. You figure it out.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Posting in this thread is a game? A competition where winners get a star and losers get what... humiliated ?

Eh... what ?

You are a grow woman. You figure it out.

I like to grow flowers, fruits and vegetables, and ornamental plants in my garden.

[sandinista! 1,816]

silly WOM. obvi, if it's not stated in the Quran that homosexuals are to be killed, we are to assume it's because it's a total fail in its "completeness", as opposed to assuming that it means to leave them alone.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Hadith anyone?

[AMP 54]

Homosexuality in Islam is not only a sin, but a crime under Islamic law.With the rise of the Islamic population in the West, also comes the rise in persecution. For example, while Muslims comprise just 2% of the total British population, they commit 25% of all anti-Homosexual crimes.[1] However, this ongoing and increasing persecution of homosexuals by Muslims around the world, rarely makes the mainstream news. The fear of offending Islamic sensibilities and enraging the Muslim populous has effectively silenced the free world in many areas. Thanks to the internet, those of us who search can find many news items that would otherwise be lost.

Morocco:

66-year-old British man is jailed in Morocco for committing homosexual acts

13 people involved in making homosexual pornographic films are sentenced to a total of 30 years imprisonment and incur fines ranging from MAD 1,000 to MAD 30,000

Six men are sentenced to prison for ‘homosexual conduct’ after hundreds march through the streets, denouncing the men’s alleged actions and calling for their punishment

Media hysteria and large and riotous anti-gay demonstrations hit Morocco. Protestors among a demonstration of 1,000 people attack the house where a "homosexual marriage" allegedly took place

Egypt:

55 men arrested and subjected to beatings, electroshock, torture, and abuse in order to force confessions. 52 men charged with "obscene behavior" and "contempt for religion"

The Egyptian State Information Service says homosexuality "defies normality," officially branding homosexuals "perverts" who spread AIDS

Gay Israeli tourist arrested and interrogated by the Egyptian authorities after meeting someone who he had met in a chat room. Held in custody in Cairo Prison for more than two weeks

Egyptian government arrests and tortures 100's of men suspected of homosexual activity. Gays bound, suspended painfully, burned or submerged in ice-cold water, and subjected to electroshock on limbs and genitals

Five men charged with the "habitual practice of debauchery". Prosecutor says the men, four of whom are HIV-positive, should not be allowed to "roam the streets freely" because they're "a danger to public health"

[sandinista! 1,816]

from muslim congressman keith ellison's website-

Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender Equality

I am working to advance Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender (GLBT) equality in Congress by ending existing discrimination written in federal laws, giving law enforcement tools to pursue perpetrators of hate crimes, and extending marriage rights and responsibilities to same-sex couples and families.

Marriage Equality

I believe in expanding marriage rights and responsibilities to same-sex couples and to have those marriages recognized by other states and the federal government. I strongly support repealing the discriminatory Defense of Marriage Act, which actively denies marriage rights and recognition to same-sex couples.

Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell

I also believe that men and women in our armed services should be able to serve their country openly, regardless of their sexual orientation and I am fighting to end the unjust “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy.

Hate Crimes

I am proud that we expanded hate crime laws to extend protections to victims of crimes committed against them on the basis of their sexual orientation and gender identity. After more than a decade of work, the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act was signed into law by President Obama on October 28th, 2009.

Employment Non-Discrimination

I am a strong supporter of legislation called the Employment Non-Discrimination Act (ENDA), which prohibits discrimination in employment based on a worker’s sexual orientation or gender identity -- similar to protections we offer based on age, gender, religious affiliation, and race.

I am proud to be vice-chair of the Congressional Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Caucus.

http://ellison.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=47&Itemid=30