New Ford Fusion pushes 100 mpg mark

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

How far can it run on a battery charge? How much coal is burned to charge the batteries? How much gas is burned? It is disingenous to say "it gets 100 miles per gallon" without counting the coal that is used. An all electric car gets an infintie amount of MPGs of gasoline...it uses none. But it uses coal (or nuclear, or natural gas or trees) to make the elctricity to charge the batteries.

How much coal does it take to charge the batteries?

The leaf (which gets a converted rate of 106 mpg - close to the fusion) uses about 34 kwh per 100 miles. Per coaleducation.org thats 27lbs of coal (I think thats about 2 US gallons in volume if its the good stuff) or about $5.44 if you live in New England circa 2010 and are pulling from a residential source. Midwest its closer to 2.40.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Sousuke

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The leaf (which gets a converted rate of 106 mpg - close to the fusion) uses about 34 kwh per 100 miles. Per coaleducation.org thats 27lbs of coal (I think thats about 2 US gallons in volume if its the good stuff) or about $5.44 if you live in New England circa 2010 and are pulling from a residential source. Midwest its closer to 2.40.

However, if you happen to live in a state like Washington, where over 75 percent of the electricity is produced from renewables and less than 10 percent comes from coal, it's significantly less. Gary has a difficult time imagining a transition away from coal to renewables for electricity, which in turn would make electric cars by far, environmentally superior to gas burning engines.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

However, if you happen to live in a state like Washington, where over 75 percent of the electricity is produced from renewables and less than 10 percent comes from coal, it's significantly less. Gary has a difficult time imagining a transition away from coal to renewables for electricity, which in turn would make electric cars by far, environmentally superior to gas burning engines.

Most electricity in Washington is hydroelectric from dams blocking rivers so that fish can't make it up rivers to spawn. Some of those dams have been torn down recently, but the Columbia River salmon return is pathetic at best.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

However, if you happen to live in a state like Washington, where over 75 percent of the electricity is produced from renewables and less than 10 percent comes from coal, it's significantly less. Gary has a difficult time imagining a transition away from coal to renewables for electricity, which in turn would make electric cars by far, environmentally superior to gas burning engines.

From nuclear it must be something like 3-4 uranium atoms (totally guessing here).

A 5MW wind turbine would produce it in under 2 minutes.

[slim 1,530]

LOL, sometimes you make it difficult to tell who is Master and who is Blaster.

Perhaps that's because I'm replying to the topic at hand instead of trolling.

The leaf (which gets a converted rate of 106 mpg - close to the fusion) uses about 34 kwh per 100 miles. Per coaleducation.org thats 27lbs of coal (I think thats about 2 US gallons in volume if its the good stuff) or about $5.44 if you live in New England circa 2010 and are pulling from a residential source. Midwest its closer to 2.40.

Wait, so what you're saying is it costs more than gas in New England and only slightly less in the midwest?

However, if you happen to live in a state like Washington, where over 75 percent of the electricity is produced from renewables and less than 10 percent comes from coal, it's significantly less. Gary has a difficult time imagining a transition away from coal to renewables for electricity, which in turn would make electric cars by far, environmentally superior to gas burning engines.

Who lives in Washington?

[SMR 368]

But it's the plug-in version, named the Fusion Energi by Ford's Department of Redundanci Dept., ...

The Department of Redundanci Dept. ?!?? Isn't that just a bad, old joke? Does Ford actually have one?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Department of Redundanci Dept. ?!?? Isn't that just a bad, old joke? Does Ford actually have one?

lol....yeah, that's pretty lame.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Wait, so what you're saying is it costs more than gas in New England and only slightly less in the midwest?

That is a price to cover 100 miles. A standard combustion engine that gets 33mpg would use 3 gallons. Thats about 11.10

[slim 1,530]

That is a price to cover 100 miles. A standard combustion engine that gets 33mpg would use 3 gallons. Thats about 11.10

A gallon of coal?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

A gallon of coal?

Petrol

[slim 1,530]

Petrol

Exactly. The original stat said the car can go 100 miles on a gallon of petrol. Now, that's electric plus petrol. How much electric is being used? What's the cost of that?

And most importantly, what's the savings over petrol?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Exactly. The original stat said the car can go 100 miles on a gallon of petrol. Now, that's electric plus petrol. How much electric is being used? What's the cost of that?

And most importantly, what's the savings over petrol?

When the EPA tests a car they convert the electrical power into the mpg. (Though obviously they haven't tested this car yet)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

However, if you happen to live in a state like Washington, where over 75 percent of the electricity is produced from renewables and less than 10 percent comes from coal, it's significantly less. Gary has a difficult time imagining a transition away from coal to renewables for electricity, which in turn would make electric cars by far, environmentally superior to gas burning engines.

Like trees. "Renewables" includes trees, right? "Biomass" it is called. It is trees. We cut them down, chip them up and burn them, dry the chips with oil fired burners. Burlington Electric has a tree fired plant and a trainload of trees goes into there every day. I know when to avoid the grade crossings, it is a slow train. So you mean like trees, right? How many trees do you need to burn to charge the batteries?

Hydro. So you mean dams built on rivers flooding habitat for animals, displacing people? You mean like the power we get from HydroQuebec? How do you feel about HydroQuebec? Have you seen their track record? So you think damming rivers, flooding habitat is less dmageing than burning gasoline? So why is every dam opposed by environmental groups?

How many native Americna have to be displaced to charge the batteries?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When the EPA tests a car they convert the electrical power into the mpg. (Though obviously they haven't tested this car yet)

Nonsense. What is the formula to convert gallons of gasoline to KWH? I want to see it.

The way they do it is simple Sousuke and if you do not know it then do not make things up. They take the distance traveled on a full charge of the batteries under controlled conditions PLUS the distance traveled with a full tank of gas and divide the miles traveled by the gasoline used. Voila! 100 miles "per gallon" They charge the batteries, fill the tank, go as far as they can and call it "miles per gallon"

The government lets them get away wth it because the government is subsidizing these vehicles that cannot otherwise be viable (and even when subsidized they don't sell becuse no one wants them)

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Nonsense. What is the formula to convert gallons of gasoline to KWH? I want to see it.

The way they do it is simple Sousuke and if you do not know it then do not make things up. They take the distance traveled on a full charge of the batteries under controlled conditions PLUS the distance traveled with a full tank of gas and divide the miles traveled by the gasoline used. Voila! 100 miles "per gallon" They charge the batteries, fill the tank, go as far as they can and call it "miles per gallon"

The government lets them get away wth it because the government is subsidizing these vehicles that cannot otherwise be viable (and even when subsidized they don't sell becuse no one wants them)

The EPA uses 33.7 khw per gallon based on a gallon producing 115000 BTUs. 1 kWh is the energy equivalent of 3412.3 BTUs