Stereotypes in America, true or not

[scotinmass 588]

Nice try.....no chance!!

Oh well he's 3000 miles away from me now!

[david'sgirl 134]

this is a logical fallacy. your father served in the us navy - that makes him a patriot. my father served in the us navy too - that makes him a patriot. my father's service does not make me a patriot - what makes me a patriot is i served 20 years in the army.

I didn't mean I am a patriot as in I served but I am very patriotic and feel very strongly about my homeland. By the way, Thank you for your service.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

First, being a moderator does not mean being 'impartial', it means knowing the Terms of Service for Visa Journey and enforcing them when people fail to observe them - which is what you have done in several threads now. Do you realize you are defending your self against a stereotype? By doing so you are actually demonstrating the basis of truth upon which this stereotype is based.

The poster did not say All Americans are blind ignorant patriots. The stereotype exists that Americans are blindly patriotic - that they don't care if their country is right or at fault or behaving criminally (and I am not saying that the US is doing this, I am using these past situations as examples). The poster was adding another qualifier to the stereotype - when those Americans who are blindly patriotic are also ignorant, which means they have no information or education to tell them why they should be patriotic and just as importantly, when they shouldn't be patriotic. No one has said that you are a blindly ignorant Patriot, yet you immediately became defensive. You need to calm down and read what is really being said. You are taking things personally that are not meant personally, and it is ironic that in your actions you are doing the exact same things that cause this stereotype to be seen to begin with.

I am sorry that you feel offended because other people have their own points of view. The US is a wonderful country but if you believe that it is perfect and the only country in the world that offers a wonderful life style you are mistaken. There are many other countries in the world just as good, and some even better, to live in than the US. This reality - and this comment - takes nothing away from the US and takes nothing away from you. It is not a personal attack. It is an observation based on informed awareness and intelligent experience.

. I have tried to steer this topic back on track by my previous posts, but you seem reluctant to co-operate. So, if you do not stop this tirade you will be thread banned from this thread as you have derailed it enough from its initial topic of 'what stereotypes did you have when you arrived and how have they changed" to "my country is the best in the world and you should be grateful we allow you to live here so show some respect ".

But where are the personal attacks? Where does she say the US is perfect? This is a total stretch.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Still having a very hard time seeing the "personal attack" in any of these posts - it's really a stretch.

The highlighted parts are the comments to which I initially referred in my warning. There have been later comments much more definitive.

I really can't understand why anyone who finds all Americans offensive would want to live in America.

And I am from Europe and love my country and have been known to fly the flag. I think it is the greatest country on earth. We have patriotism too. I've been to many European countries and have seen their flags flying. I have also heard many Europeans arguing about who's country is better. Patriotism happens the world over. You obviously have unfounded prejudices about Europe too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country. I can't understand why so many people seem to think this is wrong.

Does that you mean you hate your country? I guess you must if living in a country full of horrible people you hate is better!

The poster is making judgmental comments attributing positions and motivations that were not obtained from the comments posted and intended to insult the poster for holding a position with which the poster disagrees. It is a comment addressed directly to the other poster involved and not addressing the comments made by that poster. It is turning the discussion personal and bordering on violating TOS. Later comments by this poster do indeed violate TOS, as well as derailing this thread from its original topic of discussion.

[scotinmass 588]

But where are the personal attacks? Where does she say the US is perfect? This is a total stretch.

EXACTLY! It seems that other people are stretching the truth and reading what they want to see to prove their point.

[david'sgirl 134]

First, being a moderator does not mean being 'impartial', it means knowing the Terms of Service for Visa Journey and enforcing them when people fail to observe them - which is what you have done in several posts now. Do you realize you are defending your self against a stereotype? By doing so you are actually demonstrating the basis of truth upon which this stereotype is based.

I have tried to steer this topic back on track by my previous posts, but you seem reluctant to co-operate. So, if you do not stop this tirade you will be thread banned from this thread as you have derailed it enough from its initial topic of 'what stereotypes did you have when you arrived and how have they changed" to "my country is the best in the world and you should be grateful we allow you to live here so show some respect ".

I have no idea why you have chosen to single me out. I have no idea how you can say I have vioolated TOS. I have not. Please cite the examples.

The above quote which you attributed to me was not said by me. You took a partial quote out of context and editorialized it to suit.

I've made repeated requests to please close the thread down. I have seen other moderators close threads that were much less offensive down.

I honestly do not believe I have said one wrong thing on here but several other people have and I really do not believe you can effectively moderate something while you are in the middle of it.

I'm done reading any comments on here. It is just making me feel ill.

[scotinmass 588]

The highlighted parts are the comments to which I initially referred in my warning. There have been later comments much more definitive.

The poster is making judgmental comments attributing positions and motivations that were not obtained from the comments posted and intended to insult the poster for holding a position with which the poster disagrees. It is a comment addressed directly to the other poster involved and not addressing the comments made by that poster. It is turning the discussion personal and bordering on violating TOS. Later comments by this poster do indeed violate TOS, as well as derailing this thread from its original topic of discussion.

Did I not just state a fact? They have stereotypical ideas about Europe which I find to be wrong based on the fact I was born there and lived there for 42 years!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

The subject of this thread is 'stereotypes'. Perhaps it might help clear up some of the difficulties by reminding people what stereotypes are:

Stereotype: A stereotype is a popular belief about specific types of individuals. The concepts of "stereotype" and "prejudice" are often confused with many other different meanings. Stereotypes are standardized and simplified conceptions of groups based on some prior assumptions.

Stereotypes focus upon and thereby exaggerate differences between groups. Competition between groups minimizes similarities and magnifies differences.^[7] This makes it seem as if groups are very different when in fact they may be more alike than different. For example, among African Americans, identity as an American citizen is more salient than racial background; that is, African Americans are more American than African.^[8]

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype}

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

That is the biggest stretch to describe a personal attack I have seen in some time. You seem to have a problem that anyone wants to counter these stereotypes, which was largely respectful if not a little animated.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

The subject of this thread is 'stereotypes'. Perhaps it might help clear up some of the difficulties by reminding people what stereotypes are:

I think we all know what a "stereotype" is Kathryn, though I really do appreciate your attempt to educate Shall we start a thread about stereotypes of Mexicans, Jews, African Americans? Let's see where that gets us.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

But where are the personal attacks? Where does she say the US is perfect? This is a total stretch.

The whole issue started with post #77 quoting a portion of post #63 and expanding on the stereotype of "blind patriotism".

The portion for #77 that people dislike is this part:

This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans. More precisely it is blind, ignorant patriotism.

"This" refers to the quote and I agree with it.

Post #78 then quote #77 and said:

I really can't understand why anyone who finds all Americans offensive would want to live in America.

And I am from Europe and love my country and have been known to fly the flag. I think it is the greatest country on earth. We have patriotism too. I've been to many European countries and have seen their flags flying. I have also heard many Europeans arguing about who's country is better. Patriotism happens the world over. You obviously have unfounded prejudices about Europe too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country. I can't understand why so many people seem to think this is wrong.

Does that you mean you hate your country? I guess you must if living in a country full of horrible people you hate is better!

The bolded portions are a "personal attack" in that they breach the TOS quoted in post #79, specifically "insult" and "instigate an argument".

Post #77 wasn't directed at anyone. It was generic and expanding on a stereotype and his opinion of the stereotype which is in keeping with the thread topic which was (basically) "What stereotypes have you seen proved/disproved".

My husband is former military, the hardcore kind. He is extremely patriotic and finds nothing wrong with anything said in these posts because they're opinions based on the experiences of people he hasn't met, and therefore not directed at him. Insult someone directly, or someone he knows and it would be a different situation but that's not what all this is about.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Vanessa&Tony

[scotinmass 588]

The subject of this thread is 'stereotypes'. Perhaps it might help clear up some of the difficulties by reminding people what stereotypes are:

Was that for the benefit of the ignorant people in the country?

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Did I not just state a fact? They have stereotypical ideas about Europe which I find to be wrong based on the fact I was born there and lived there for 42 years!

This thread isn't about the right and wrong of stereotypes, it is about what sterotypes did people have when they came here and how do they view them now after being here for a bit. You did not state a fact. You stated a personal belief about the other individual based upon your perception of his comments from your perspective.

Was that for the benefit of the ignorant people in the country?

Enough. I have asked another moderator to investigate this thread as I am involved in it. You do not have the right to make snide personal attacks at me or at any other member here, as that violates TOS.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Kathryn41

[scotinmass 588]

I think the problem with this thread is that it is very one sided and is only discussing stereotypes of one country. Perhaps we should expand it to discuss the stereotypes of all countries. We could start off with Australia. It is widely believed that all Australians wear hats with corks round their heads and that they sit around the barbie all day throwing shrimps on them and knocking back the tinnys of XXXX. They love to hunt crocodiles and have pet kangaroos called Skippy. They say things like G'day Bruce and the ones in the outback seem to be a bit backwards. How much of that is true? I don't know any Australians so I can't really comment.

[scotinmass 588]

This thread isn't about the right and wrong of stereotypes, it is about what sterotypes did people have when they came here and how do they view them now after being here for a bit. You did not state a fact. You stated a personal belief about the other individual based upon your perception of his comments from your perspective.

Enough. I have asked another moderator to investigate this thread as I am involved in it. You do not have the right to make snide personal attacks at me or at any other member here, as that violates TOS.

Please explain in what way this was a personal attack? I felt someone putting a definition of stereotype on here was condescending and I was wondering who it was aimed at because I would think that most people know what it means.