Stereotypes in America, true or not

[david'sgirl 134]

I think we've seen non-USCs also get defensive in this thread - it's not nice to be reduced to a generalization or national statistic.

Agreed!

[rlogan 2,036]

It is somewhat ironic, actually, that in a thread exploring stereotypes we had a nice illustration of another American stereotype ' blind patriotism'. That is one of the stereotypes I had about Americans - a lot of it based upon Canadian-American relationships over the years. Americans were never able to hear anything 'wrong' about the US even if it was in their own best interests to know it.

This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans. More precisely it is blind, ignorant patriotism. If you are from Europe then you live and interact amongst many different nations with differing approaches to governance and culture. You also have a far longer history to use as a knowledge base for critical thinking.

But it is taught in the schools and touted relentlessly in the media as "American Exceptionalism". We are the lamp unto the world; the shining city on the hill, bombing and killing all the lesser creatures of the earth.

[scotinmass 588]

This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans. More precisely it is blind, ignorant patriotism. If you are from Europe then you live and interact amongst many different nations with differing approaches to governance and culture. You also have a far longer history to use as a knowledge base for critical thinking.

But it is taught in the schools and touted relentlessly in the media as "American Exceptionalism". We are the lamp unto the world; the shining city on the hill, bombing and killing all the lesser creatures of the earth.

I really can't understand why anyone who finds all Americans offensive would want to live in America.

And I am from Europe and love my country and have been known to fly the flag. I think it is the greatest country on earth. We have patriotism too. I've been to many European countries and have seen their flags flying. I have also heard many Europeans arguing about who's country is better. Patriotism happens the world over. You obviously have unfounded prejudices about Europe too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country. I can't understand why so many people seem to think this is wrong.

Does that you mean you hate your country? I guess you must if living in a country full of horrible people you hate is better!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

I really can't understand why anyone who finds all Americans offensive would want to live in America.

And I am from Europe and love my country and have been known to fly the flag. I think it is the greatest country on earth. We have patriotism too. I've been to many European countries and have seen their flags flying. I have also heard many Europeans arguing about who's country is better. Patriotism happens the world over. You obviously have unfounded prejudices about Europe too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country. I can't understand why so many people seem to think this is wrong.

Does that you mean you hate your country? I guess you must if living in a country full of horrible people you hate is better!

Now this is what I mean by taking something personally that is not meant personally and turning this thread into a judgmental competition. We are talking about stereotypes. Please do not continue with this line of discussion as it is provocative and unproductive and is on the edge of violating TOS:

Make comments in a Post either direct or implied toward another member that are purposely designed to upset, antagonize, make fun of, belittle, harass, insult, or otherwise instigate an argument that takes away from the personal enjoyment of the Service by other users.

You can disagree with the comments, but you do not have the right to turn them into a personal attack against another poster. Disagree with the comment -do not make it personal..

You may also wish to examine what was actually said again. No where did anyone state it is wrong to love their country nor did anyone state that they fine all Americans offensive. You are jumping to conclusions that are not based upon what was actually said.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Kathryn41

[scotinmass 588]

Now this is what I mean by taking something personally that is not meant personally and turning this thread into a judgmental competition. We are talking about stereotypes. Please do not continue with this line of discussion as it is provocative and unproductive and is on the edge of violating TOS:

You can disagree with the comments, but you do not have the right to turn them into a personal attack against another poster. Disagree with the comment -do not make it personal..

You may also wish to examine what was actually said again. No where did anyone state it is wrong to love their country nor did anyone state that they fine all Americans offensive. You are jumping to conclusions that are not based upon what was actually said.

So when someone says they find Americans offensive that is ok?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'm finding it really hard to find a personal attack in scottinmass's post

[david'sgirl 134]

Now this is what I mean by taking something personally that is not meant personally and turning this thread into a judgmental competition. We are talking about stereotypes. Please do not continue with this line of discussion as it is provocative and unproductive and is on the edge of violating TOS:

You can disagree with the comments, but you do not have the right to turn them into a personal attack against another poster. Disagree with the comment -do not make it personal..

You may also wish to examine what was actually said again. No where did anyone state it is wrong to love their country nor did anyone state that they fine all Americans offensive. You are jumping to conclusions that are not based upon what was actually said.

Are you a moderator? If so are you not supposed to be impartial?

As evidenced by your earlier lengthy post you support people being able to make very offensive comments about my country where you all want to live. You have already made it quite clear that you view my patriotism as blind and ignorant. My father served hald of his life in the US Navy, so am I a patriotic American? Yes. Am I ignorant? Not in the least. I am actually very well educated and read the news. What I think is dead wrong is to go on a site to discuss a place where you want to live and to rip the country and the people to shreds. I think you are wrong as a moderator to not only fail to stop it but to take part and even condone it. Why is it only ok for the people who make negative comments about the USA to speak thier minds?

If we cannot even defend ourselves then please at least close this topic. It is not light hearted. It has become a place where people come to make unfounded, generalized negative comments about America and her citizens.

My husband replied to a poster who stated, and I quote, "This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans. More precisely it is blind, ignorant patriotism". It was not my husband who was making it personal. The other poster said he finds American's offensive in many ways and our blind,ignorant patriotism is the thing that offends him most. What offends me most is having someone move to my country and use it's resources and take advantage of a better life in America with one hand while tearing it apart with the other. It just seems two faced and it seems ungrateful to the country that let you come live here. It is a priviledge to live here;not a God given right. I just think people need to be more respectful. You know, behave as if you are a guest in someone's home, because you are.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Yes, it is okay for someone to say they find some Americans offensive - because some Americans ARE offensive. To pretend otherwise is to wear blinders. No one of any culture or background or gender or religion is perfect, not even Americans. I am an American and I find some Americans offensive. This is not an insult- it is an honest observation. Some people find certain behavour more offensive than others. They are allowed to. What they are not allowed to do is to take action against that individual for holding a different viewpoint or perspective than yours. It is against the laws of our society to attack someone with whom you disagree, and it is against the TOS on Visa Journey for you to attack someone for holding an opinion with which you disagree. You can disagree with their position, but you can't attack them.

For what it is worth, no one on this thread has said they found all Americans offensive. This is something you have added in all on your own. It is exaggerating what was said as a means to try and justify your response and it isn't acceptable. You do not have the right to put words into people's mouths that they did not say thus instigating an argument, and you do not have the right to attack them for holding a perspective with which you do not agree.

Please try to remember the subject of this thread - stereotypes. Stereotypes portray people as all or nothing, black or white, right or wrong, with very little understanding of the nuances that make up each individual and each culture. When you get caught up in all or nothing perspectives, you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In other words, you deny yourself the opportunity to gain a clearer understanding of the reality involved.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Kathryn41

[Stu4Lee 66]

I really can't understand why anyone who finds all Americans offensive would want to live in America.

And I am from Europe and love my country and have been known to fly the flag. I think it is the greatest country on earth. We have patriotism too. I've been to many European countries and have seen their flags flying. I have also heard many Europeans arguing about who's country is better. Patriotism happens the world over. You obviously have unfounded prejudices about Europe too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loving your country. I can't understand why so many people seem to think this is wrong.

Does that you mean you hate your country? I guess you must if living in a country full of horrible people you hate is better!

That sounds like a lot of Scots I know in England.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Still having a very hard time seeing the "personal attack" in any of these posts - it's really a stretch.

[scotinmass 588]

Yes, it is okay for someone to say they find some Americans offensive - because some Americans ARE offensive. To pretend otherwise is to wear blinders. No one of any culture or background or gender or religion is perfect, not even Americans. I am an American and I find some Americans offensive. This is not an insult- it is an honest observation. Some people find certain behavour more offensive than others. They are allowed to. What they are not allowed to do is to take action against that individual for holding a different viewpoint or perspective than yours. It is against the laws of our society to attack someone with whom you disagree, and it is against the TOS on Visa Journey for you to attack someone for holding an opinion with which you disagree. You can disagree with their position, but you can't attack them.

For what it is worth, no one on this thread has said they found all Americans offensive. This is something you have added in all on your own. It is exaggerating what was said as a means to try and justify your response and it isn't acceptable. You do not have the right to put words into people's mouths that they did not say thus instigating an argument, and you do not have the right to attack them for holding a perspective with which you do not agree.

Please try to remember the subject of this thread - stereotypes. Stereotypes portray people as all or nothing, black or white, right or wrong, with very little understanding of the nuances that make up each individual and each culture. When you get caught up in all or nothing perspectives, you run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. In other words, you deny yourself the opportunity to gain a clearer understanding of the reality involved.

I copied and pasted this directly from the post.

This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans

It does not say SOME Americans as you claim. It says Americans. Meaning all of them. I am commenting on what I read. I am not making any personal attacks. I am not American but my wife is, my friends are, half my family is, my work mates are. I like these people and I don't like when people attack them. I have a right to defend them. Obviously you disagree.

[scotinmass 588]

That sounds like a lot of Scots I know in England.

Well my brother in law is an Englishman living in Scotland. I will gladly trade you all your Scots for him!

[Stu4Lee 66]

Well my brother in law is an Englishman living in Scotland. I will gladly trade you all your Scots for him!

Nice try.....no chance!!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Are you a moderator? If so are you not supposed to be impartial?

As evidenced by your earlier lengthy post you support people being able to make very offensive comments about my country where you all want to live. You have already made it quite clear that you view my patriotism as blind and ignorant. My father served hald of his life in the US Navy, so am I a patriotic American? Yes. Am I ignorant? Not in the least. I am actually very well educated and read the news. What I think is dead wrong is to go on a site to discuss a place where you want to live and to rip the country and the people to shreds. I think you are wrong as a moderator to not only fail to stop it but to take part and even condone it. Why is it only ok for the people who make negative comments about the USA to speak thier minds?

If we cannot even defend ourselves then please at least close this topic. It is not light hearted. It has become a place where people come to make unfounded, generalized negative comments about America and her citizens.

My husband replied to a poster who stated, and I quote, "This is one of the most offensive things I find about Americans. More precisely it is blind, ignorant patriotism". It was not my husband who was making it personal. The other poster said he finds American's offensive in many ways and our blind,ignorant patriotism is the thing that offends him most. What offends me most is having someone move to my country and use it's resources and take advantage of a better life in America with one hand while tearing it apart with the other. It just seems two faced and it seems ungrateful to the country that let you come live here. It is a priviledge to live here;not a God given right. I just think people need to be more respectful. You know, behave as if you are a guest in someone's home, because you are.

First, being a moderator does not mean being 'impartial', it means knowing the Terms of Service for Visa Journey and enforcing them when people fail to observe them - which is what you have done in several posts now. Do you realize you are defending your self against a stereotype? By doing so you are actually demonstrating the basis of truth upon which this stereotype is based.

The poster did not say All Americans are blind ignorant patriots. The stereotype exists that Americans are blindly patriotic - that they don't care if their country is right or at fault or behaving criminally (and I am not saying that the US is doing this, I am using these past situations as examples). The poster was adding another qualifier to the stereotype - when those Americans who are blindly patriotic are also ignorant, which means they have no information or education to tell them why they should be patriotic and just as importantly, when they shouldn't be patriotic. No one has said that you are a blindly ignorant Patriot, yet you immediately became defensive. You need to calm down and read what is really being said. You are taking things personally that are not meant personally, and it is ironic that in your actions you are doing the exact same things that cause this stereotype to be seen to begin with.

I am sorry that you feel offended because other people have their own points of view. The US is a wonderful country but if you believe that it is perfect and the only country in the world that offers a wonderful life style you are mistaken. There are many other countries in the world just as good, and some even better, to live in than the US. This reality - and this comment - takes nothing away from the US and takes nothing away from you. It is not a personal attack. It is an observation based on informed awareness and intelligent experience.

. I have tried to steer this topic back on track by my previous posts, but you seem reluctant to co-operate. So, if you do not stop this tirade you will be thread banned from this thread as you have derailed it enough from its initial topic of 'what stereotypes did you have when you arrived and how have they changed" to "my country is the best in the world and you should be grateful we allow you to live here so show some respect ".

Edited January 11, 2012 by Kathryn41

[Ban Hammer 13,334]

My father served hald of his life in the US Navy, so am I a patriotic American? Yes.

this is a logical fallacy. your father served in the us navy - that makes him a patriot. my father served in the us navy too - that makes him a patriot. my father's service does not make me a patriot - what makes me a patriot is my 20 years of service in the army.

Edited January 11, 2012 by charles!