Lose German Citizenship

[karin_brenig 18]

most certainly I can help you educate yourself about what USCIS calls "administrative denaturalization".

Be prepared for some shocking read, though:

http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2274&context=llr

[Maad 0]

most certainly I can help you educate yourself about what USCIS calls "administrative denaturalization".

Be prepared for some shocking read, though:

http://digitalcommon...274&context=llr

it is 10 years old, a lot changed recently and if you read it all

page 25 from the documents states just opposite (explanation by judge Kleinfeld) :

Citizenship in the United States of America is among our

most valuable rights. For many of us, it is all that protects

our life, liberty, and property from arbitrary deprivation.

The world is full of miserable governments that protect

none of these rights. Many of us would be dead or never

conceived in wretched places in other countries, had we or

our ancestors not obtained American citizenship. The opportunities

that we want to pass on to our children depend

on their secure rights to stay in this country and enjoy its

guarantees of life, liberty, and property, and the domestic

peace and prosperity that flow from these guarantees.

An executive department cannot simply decide, without express

statutory authorization, to create an internal executive

procedure to deprive people of those rights without even

going to court.

[karin_brenig 18]

An executive department cannot simply decide, without express

statutory authorization, to create an internal executive

procedure to deprive people of those rights without even

going to court.

if you say so - let's hope you're right, for those people who chose to take risks and don't want to follow my advice

about how to answer questions at your next PoE - especially if you carry two passports.

I'm curious: do you still have a Polish passport, or just the US passport?

Some time this year will probably be my first time travelling with two passports.

Will be interesting to see how that works - apart from the theoretical aproach.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

it is 10 years old, a lot changed recently and if you read it all

page 25 from the documents states just opposite (explanation by judge Kleinfeld) :

Yep,

it's 10 years old. Oh my . . . how old is the Constitution?

You are putting the opinion of a single judge over the written law?

Good for you. I tend to agree with Karin though, but then again, what do I know . . .

[JERIII 8]

Yep,

it's 10 years old. Oh my . . . how old is the Constitution?

You are putting the opinion of a single judge over the written law?

Good for you. I tend to agree with Karin though, but then again, what do I know . . .

About most things, you know a lot, about this, maybe not so much.

The "opinion of a single judge" in question is that of Judge Kleinfeld, who wrote the majority

opinion for a decision of the full Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, sitting en banc. In that case,

Gorbach v. Reno, the court struck down the practice of administrative denaturalization. Basically,

the court ruled that the written law does NOT allow the Attorney General to set up a denaturalization

procedure outside the courts. (This is all described in the article cited above, and in numerous other

places.)

The US decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court, and that was the end of administrative

denaturalization.

[karin_brenig 18]

About most things, you know a lot, about this, maybe not so much.

The US decided not to appeal the case to the Supreme Court, and that was the end of administrative

denaturalization.

just a question, out of curiousity - would you personally want to find out?

I'm really not that brave, so I'll stick to the old "better safe than sorry" and tread lightly

[JERIII 8]

just a question, out of curiousity - would you personally want to find out?

I'm really not that brave, so I'll stick to the old "better safe than sorry" and tread lightly

Find out what?

The article you posted in order to explain administrative denaturalization, in fact explains that

it no longer exists. The article explains the Circuit Court's Decision in great detail. Denaturalization requires a petition in court.

Do I think it is a good idea to claim another citizenship when passing through immigration. no. Is it going to land you

in court? No.

[DanAl 11]

Hi,

I wanted to get back to the original topic... BBG.

I want to apply for US citizenship (currently I have a green card) but want to keep my German citizenship. I have been in the US almost 20 years and I think I read somewhere that this means that the part of showing ties to Germany is not as important - is this true?

I don't think I should have too many problems showing disadvantages of not having US citizenship based on job requirements.

The main issue I have is that I don't speak much German at all. I got my German citizenship based on Article 116 (2) and knowledge of the German language was not required.

I got conflicting information about this aspect and how it relates to the BBG - I have heard from a couple of people that knowledge of German is an absolute requirement, while others told me that there is absolutely no set rules and the decision is at the discretion of the authorities in Koln.

I would appreciate any input on this!

Thanks,

Dan

[nwctzn 55]

Hi,

I wanted to get back to the original topic... BBG.

I want to apply for US citizenship (currently I have a green card) but want to keep my German citizenship. I have been in the US almost 20 years and I think I read somewhere that this means that the part of showing ties to Germany is not as important - is this true?

I don't think I should have too many problems showing disadvantages of not having US citizenship based on job requirements.

The main issue I have is that I don't speak much German at all. I got my German citizenship based on Article 116 (2) and knowledge of the German language was not required.

I got conflicting information about this aspect and how it relates to the BBG - I have heard from a couple of people that knowledge of German is an absolute requirement, while others told me that there is absolutely no set rules and the decision is at the discretion of the authorities in Koln.

I would appreciate any input on this!

Thanks,

Dan

I think knowing German is a requirement but Karin and Brother Hesekiel can comment further on that.

But other than that, thanks for posting since I did not read this thread for a long time and found it interesting to read about traveling with two passports and the "potential" for de-naturalization just because you said you are a dual citizen at the POE in the US

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Edited April 21, 2012 by nwctzn

[Visitor 90]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if you were a dual citizen you would use... let's say... your US passport to depart and enter the US and in my case (if I had my dual citizenship and had in my possession 2 passports, which I don't) I would use my Australian passport to enter and leave Australia. Isn't that how it works?

[nwctzn 55]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if you were a dual citizen you would use... let's say... your US passport to depart and enter the US and in my case (if I had my dual citizenship and had in my possession 2 passports, which I don't) I would use my Australian passport to enter and leave Australia. Isn't that how it works?

That's correct. You must use the US Passport to enter and leave the US.

You can use your other passport to enter and leave your other country.

In my case, I have to show my US passport when I leave my original country since otherwise I am asked why I do not have a US visa. So leaving/entering your original country is case dependent.

[Visitor 90]

Thank you nwctzn.

[DanAl 11]

I think knowing German is a requirement but Karin and Brother Hesekiel can comment further on that.

But other than that, thanks for posting since I did not read this thread for a long time and found it interesting to read about traveling with two passports and the "potential" for de-naturalization just because you said you are a dual citizen at the POE in the US

--

Thanks. I'll wait and see if anyone else has additional insight!

As for the other point - I can't see why you would be de-naturalized since the US does allow multiple citizenships. Last time I entered Germany the border police person yelled at me that I am a German citizen and thus I should be able to speak German. I just kept talking to her in English, and basically told her that it is what it is, and it is not her problem whether or not I speak German. That was fun......

[nwctzn 55]

Thanks. I'll wait and see if anyone else has additional insight!

As for the other point - I can't see why you would be de-naturalized since the US does allow multiple citizenships. Last time I entered Germany the border police person yelled at me that I am a German citizen and thus I should be able to speak German. I just kept talking to her in English, and basically told her that it is what it is, and it is not her problem whether or not I speak German. That was fun......

In fact, many Germans expect non-citizens to speak German as well. I had a friend in college who was from Bangladesh and applied for an internship at Siemens in Germany. He sent them an application letter in English and got a response from them in German

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Edited April 22, 2012 by nwctzn

[Ruffie 22]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought if you were a dual citizen you would use... let's say... your US passport to depart and enter the US and in my case (if I had my dual citizenship and had in my possession 2 passports, which I don't) I would use my Australian passport to enter and leave Australia. Isn't that how it works?

Yes.

When you check in at the airport in your country, you have to show the US passport, otherwise you'll be denied boarding being that you don't have a visa/ESTA in/with your other passport. At the border patrol (if there is one) when leaving your country, you show your country's passport. If they check passports at the gate during boarding, you show the US Passport (again because of the whole visa "problem"). You enter and leave the US with the US passport. And enter your country with your other passport. Sounds complicated but when you think about all the different steps from check in to arrival (and the reason why you have to show a passport), it's actually rather logical :-)