School Shooting discussion gets my son in trouble??

[Stuart and Thea 95]

My son is 12 years old, and takes the bus to school with a lot of different aged kids. In Canada he was in a specialized class and didn't interact with the whole school population, and here, it's the same thing, so yeah, I'd say he's a little bit sheltered in some ways. The kids on the bus were talking about Columbine, and he had never heard of it. Why would he? (the other day he asked me what AIDS was, so we were going there next)

Well, he asked in class where Columbine was, and how far away it was, and when did it happen and how many kids got shot. Then he asked if it had ever happened at his school, and when they said no, he asked if it could. They said no, and he said, I think it could.

So, they go apeshlt crazy and decide he's threatening the school, he has to report to the office every morning to be searched for guns.

HE'S TWELVE!!!

I am going to the school tomorrow to EXPLAIN to them, that while THEIR perspective may be that anyone who TALKS about history is planning to repeat it, OUR perspective is that if it's scary, and new to you, you ask questions until you feel safe about it. So, a little kid comes home CRYING, and is in trouble over this???

Any ideas on what to do?

[GnBnL 50]

aww, this makes me sad poor guy...of course he wouldn't know about that! I'm surprised the other kids did! The US seems to be land of fear and paranoia, and I would think that just explaining that your son is not familiar with US history and meant no ill intention that would be enough! Who knows tho, as people can be pretty ridiculous about these things...I am not a parent, so can't really offer much advice other than to be sure to let him know he's not to blame for this and that people and things are different here, but I'm sure you've already done that, so I just want to wish you well and I hope he is not too upset over this!

[Ning 619]

My son is 12 years old, and takes the bus to school with a lot of different aged kids. In Canada he was in a specialized class and didn't interact with the whole school population, and here, it's the same thing, so yeah, I'd say he's a little bit sheltered in some ways. The kids on the bus were talking about Columbine, and he had never heard of it. Why would he? (the other day he asked me what AIDS was, so we were going there next)

Well, he asked in class where Columbine was, and how far away it was, and when did it happen and how many kids got shot. Then he asked if it had ever happened at his school, and when they said no, he asked if it could. They said no, and he said, I think it could.

So, they go apeshlt crazy and decide he's threatening the school, he has to report to the office every morning to be searched for guns.

HE'S TWELVE!!!

I am going to the school tomorrow to EXPLAIN to them, that while THEIR perspective may be that anyone who TALKS about history is planning to repeat it, OUR perspective is that if it's scary, and new to you, you ask questions until you feel safe about it. So, a little kid comes home CRYING, and is in trouble over this???

Any ideas on what to do?

Have him read the story about the eighth grader that brought the pellet gun to school today. He was shot 3 times by police & killed.

[Enigma11561 336]

As a father, I would get my butt down to that school now and give them a piece of my mind. People are really scared when talks center around issues like that. Just this week some cops took out a 15YO kid because they "thought" he had a gun. It was a BB pistol but the kid is now dead. So........tell them your reasoning, as you did in your post, which makes great sense, and tell them to chill out.

BTW, his answer is correct. It COULD happen at any school.

[JohnandWendyB 21]

Have him read the story about the eighth grader that brought the pellet gun to school today. He was shot 3 times by police & killed.

Ugh! No! Just explain to him that in the US we preach freedom of speech but don't practice it. You have to be very careful saying anything about shooting, guns, bombs, knives, etc. in school, airplanes, court, etc. It is a life lesson. That is just how it is here. It makes no sense but they take those things very seriously because of Columbine and similar events. No need to terrorize him since the police that killed the boy with the bb gun should be held accountable! I had a good friend who was mentally unstable and off his meds. He had a water pistol and a police officer shot him dead as well. Perhaps just making sure he really knows not to talk about that stuff to anyone but you/your family, etc. This is sad!

[warlord 72]

Well maybe he's sheltered, but still, being 12 and never hearing about Columbine is unusual. Anyways, because of all the issues and attacks and things that have happened in schools and colleges in the past 15 or so years, they really do need to be protective. Teachers now are trained to look for any unusual signs of anything.

They may have gone a little overboard about the checking for guns every day, but I can really see how the situation could raise red flags. It's always safe than to be sorry. Just because your son won't do something horrible, another kid out there who may be in the same position might have. So it's all about security nowdays and really, red flags are red flags and a kid saying "it could" to me anyways is a red flag and should be taken seriously, especially about comparing Columbine to his own school...

[Kimbear 53]

Wow that is just nuts. I mean ####..i'd want my kid to ask a millions questiosn about ANYTHING. Hell i'd ask those same things..and i have no idea what columbine was or is. I remember the massacre's in Montreal many years ago at Polytechnique, i remember reporting a kid when i was in grade 7 cuz he had a gun even though it turned out to be a fake one.

your child is just askign the same questions you as a parent...or any parent for that matter would ask. if he was going to do something stupid like what they are insinuating,why ask before he does it? he is asking so he understands it and to make himself feel safer by hopefully getting a good response from his teacher. god...stupid people are stupid!

[Penguin_ie 5,992]

I agree they went overboard, but are you sure his version of the story is correct, especially how he worded his statement about how it could happen at their school?

You mention he is sheltered and away from the general school population. Does this mean he has some developmental delays or disability? If so, (even though you shouldn't have to), you may want to approach the school from that angle, and say that the teacher should be aware of his curiosity and issues due to his disability and have dealt with the situation differently. Over-cautiousness and PC-ness can work both ways, and their "fear" of offending anyone who is different can work in your favour here.

[decocker 7,198]

I'm sorry, but any school that would make that kind of administrative decision BEFORE talking to the parents is just plain LAZY. Has your son been searched yet? Who is doing the searching? When adults in positions of authority start making decisions that interfere with a child's well being for the sake of the "school" WITHOUT involving the parent, that is when you need to put on your mama bear face and defend!

This is so insanely crazy to me! If my son's school EVER took discipline against him in that manner without discussing it with me first, I'd go straight to the school board - forget about the teachers/principle because they are obviously operating on cruise control and not using their faculties of reason and common sense.

Man, a school reprimanding a kid for a question and the truth. Yep - that's america 2012.

Also, what do you mean by 'specialized class'? My son has a special IEP (individual education plan) because he is ADD and basically can't function to his full potential in a regular classroom setting. The reason I'm asking is that the process for obtaining such assistance for your child can be intimidating and because it requires extra work out of teachers - a lot of times they aren't forthcoming with these options even though they are available. Hopefully you were able to find comparable 'specialized classes' for your son. Having the IEP has made a world of difference for my son and I've found that since he's had it - teachers tend to treat him with a bit more empathy. Before it was always that my son was lazy, making trouble, joking and drawing and not paying attention. Now that they know he has difficulties (and the State has recognized that via the IEP) they actually ENCOURAGE his drawing and joking and interaction with classmates. Crazy it that it took a ton of doctor/teacher/school administration/ AND social worker visits/surveys/forms to get what I would consider NORMAL educational support for my son.

Edited January 6, 2012 by valerie78

[Udella&Wiz 325]

Guys - you're in a different world now, remember that. It occured in 1999 though, so how could a 12 yr old from Canada be expected to even know the facts? I mean seriously it was 13 yrs ago almost, before he was born.

Thea - I would high-tail it down to the school and give them the angry mother bear treatment. They have over reacted and you need to make that very clear to them. Your son doesn;t deserve tp be treated in a threatening manner eitehr due to their ignorance. How ridiculous for them to overeact so heavily to a child's statement. I have to say that I agree with him 100% - it could happen in any school across America or Canada these days and we know they cannot stop it, because these events continue to happen . Someone gets looked at the wrong way and the offended kid brings a gun to school the next day to 'solve' his problem.

Anyway - remember that this is America (different then Canada).....Columbine scared and crushed people. It made people paranoid (somewhat rightfully) and some folks have not gotten through those feelings...school officials are scared silly everywhere that Columbine or VA Tech will happen under their watch. I kind of get that too. Can they bee too cautious? Probably - but wouldn't you prefer them to be cautious and not neglectful? Hopefully you can make it clear that your son's innocent comment was taken entirely out of context.

[Kimbear 53]

I understand that American and Canada are very differnt places..trust me I do. However how each chooses to react and the differnt regulations the schools put in place and the way of thinking is still very different.

In 1989 in Montreal, when i was 16 and in high school the scariest thing happend. A guy armed with a gun killed 28 people in a school in downtown. That was the Montreal Massacre at Ecole Polytechnique. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

Now that was a hell of alot worse than the Columbine incident btw. Since then, people are encouraged to talk about it and remember it so that it does not happena gain. We do not pretend it never happend or get in trouble or searched becuase we asked if it could happen at our school. Hell in fact the school coumcellors encouraged us to discuss it. Now I know for a fact as i was still in school and continued to be in school for another 10 years, that if i were to ask a question or talk like your son, that they would never think i wanted to kill poeple, or say i had to be searched for guns.

Now i hope and pray its not the case of your family just being new to the area. I know you only recently moved there, but to single your son out and think OMG he might be a killers cuz your new..well I agree you go down to that school and do some serious growling. I know I would do more than Growl....

[Udella&Wiz 325]

How people react here in the US is just fundamentally different though.....hard to explain. What happens to one family happens to everyone....you know what I mean? People take things very personally. It's one of the good point about teh US too - they are very united. I think really its a sense of powerlessness that drives school administrators to react so inappropriately(ie: overreact), very hard to define it. Certainly its bad behaviour and they should fix it.

I understand that American and Canada are very differnt places..trust me I do. However how each chooses to react and the differnt regulations the schools put in place and the way of thinking is still very different.

In 1989 in Montreal, when i was 16 and in high school the scariest thing happend. A guy armed with a gun killed 28 people in a school in downtown. That was the Montreal Massacre at Ecole Polytechnique. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_Polytechnique_massacre

Now that was a hell of alot worse than the Columbine incident btw. Since then, people are encouraged to talk about it and remember it so that it does not happena gain. We do not pretend it never happend or get in trouble or searched becuase we asked if it could happen at our school. Hell in fact the school coumcellors encouraged us to discuss it. Now I know for a fact as i was still in school and continued to be in school for another 10 years, that if i were to ask a question or talk like your son, that they would never think i wanted to kill poeple, or say i had to be searched for guns.

Now i hope and pray its not the case of your family just being new to the area. I know you only recently moved there, but to single your son out and think OMG he might be a killers cuz your new..well I agree you go down to that school and do some serious growling. I know I would do more than Growl....

[Stuart and Thea 95]

The version of the story that I heard was the teacher's version, I had to ask my son about it AFTER I had been told the teacher's version, so no, it's not a matter of him telling me a different story.

Warlord's response to this was exactly the school's response to this, that they have a duty to the other children out there, and any red flag needs to be taken seriously because IF there was ever to be a problem and they were asked, did you have any red flags, and there were and they didn't act on them, they would/could be liable. It's a completely different culture.

As to the special class he's in, the one here, I don't think is the same as the one in Canada at all. He's in with the kids with serious PDD, Autism and other disablities. In Canada, he was in a second chance class that was to prevent kids that were slipping through the cracks from getting lost along the way. He does have a learning disability and is on an IEP, it's mostly written communication that is the big thing for him, it keeps him from working to his potential because the act of getting his message out on paper is so hard for him, he just doesn't bother getting his message out at all. He also has an anxiety disorder, and the inability to filter and self censor, so yeah, it's going to be hard for him here... Hopefully they can find a way to integrate him with the general school population without putting him at risk for failure and quitting, he's too smart to fail at school.

I did go down there with the mama bear mentality, but I tell you that there was no talking to them about them overreacting, because to them, it's the right reaction. In Canada, it would not be the reaction, and in fact, if they were concerned, they would call the kid down to the office to talk, call in the parents, or send the kid to the itinerant office to talk to the child and youth worker. Here, they just make sure that they search the kid to prevent violence. They say it's because they want to prevent other kids from getting hurt, but really, they're protecting their bottom line in case they get found liable after the fact. Because, like was mentioned in here, someone with ill intent certainly isn't the kid that just moved to town from a country with strict gun laws, no access to guns and hearing about a school shooting for the first time and getting worried about it, it's the kid that keeps quiet about it all and plans... Hell, the kids that did the Columbine thing planned it for more than a year, it took them that long to just save the money for the explosives.

What I did get across to them is that they now have a barrier in front of my son to his successful education, he feels betrayed by his teacher, and scared to talk to them at school. He already hates school and now has one more reason to not want to go, and to hate the US. I told them that for him, it's most important to have him feel safe enough to tell them things he worries about, and not let it just sit in his head, and mistrust them. So, we have a lot of work ahead of us. We do have another IEP meeting on Tuesday, and they plan to retest him here so they get a better understanding of him, which is a good thing.

Hopefully they don't decide he's a psychopathic killer somewhere along the line, as he was also talking about nukes last night... (maybe they should search him for radioactivity while they're at it.)

[warlord 72]

The version of the story that I heard was the teacher's version, I had to ask my son about it AFTER I had been told the teacher's version, so no, it's not a matter of him telling me a different story.

Warlord's response to this was exactly the school's response to this, that they have a duty to the other children out there, and any red flag needs to be taken seriously because IF there was ever to be a problem and they were asked, did you have any red flags, and there were and they didn't act on them, they would/could be liable. It's a completely different culture.

As to the special class he's in, the one here, I don't think is the same as the one in Canada at all. He's in with the kids with serious PDD, Autism and other disablities. In Canada, he was in a second chance class that was to prevent kids that were slipping through the cracks from getting lost along the way. He does have a learning disability and is on an IEP, it's mostly written communication that is the big thing for him, it keeps him from working to his potential because the act of getting his message out on paper is so hard for him, he just doesn't bother getting his message out at all. He also has an anxiety disorder, and the inability to filter and self censor, so yeah, it's going to be hard for him here... Hopefully they can find a way to integrate him with the general school population without putting him at risk for failure and quitting, he's too smart to fail at school.

See I think that made it more of a red flag than if he was in a non special class. Kids with Autism or PDD etc could be unpredictable so I'm sure they could be on a higher alert system about possible threats with kids in that class compared to a regular one. Then again a normal kid probably wouldn't ask the questions in the same way either, since they would understand yes it can happen anywhere.

I know my ex-wife's kid had autism and he was prone to doing things without emotion or understanding consequences of it or any emotion after doing something harmful to someone else. So in that special class, teachers have no clue what the possibilities are from the students.

In good news it could be a good learning experience for him to realize communication skills and what things are not allowed or appropriate. The same things for kids who have mentioned bombs in airports as a joke and what not. In today's world you can't take anything lightly when it comes to a hint of a possible threat.

In other good news, you at least know he's in a school and class where the teachers aren't oblivious to their students. Many don't pay attention to their kids and many have let kids fall through the cracks (as you mentioned) and some of those have led to mass killings and stuff. So knowing that, at least they are paying attention and looking out for everyone else (yes including themselves).

I wouldn't worry too much about it, but yes, going down to explain more about his upbringing and such would be really helpful for the teacher/school to know...

[Stuart and Thea 95]

I hope you didn't misunderstand me, my child does not have Autism, he does not have PDD, he's normal mentally as far as that's concerned, but does have a learning disability, very similar to dyslexia, he can't translate from his head to written language. As to being unpredictable, I understand that there are children in his class that could be like that, but he was being treated the same as if he was in any classroom, it's just the way they think of things that differs from how I, and several others (Canadian perspective mostly) think compared to the American paranoid view of life. It's really sad that they had to go through what they went through to get there, but I guess the same could be said after the Dunblane massacre in England creating the handgun ban in the UK, I'm sure there are many that think that was overboard, but they're doing what they can to ensure it won't happen again. I don't think the methodology is really preventative in any way, but they can pat themselves on their back and say they did all they could to prevent something, even when it's unlikely to happen statistically in any given instance. I believe there still continues to be a gun problem there regardless of the ban...

I would hate for a child moving there to be questioned and labelled a threat because they ask questions about the ban, and why it was there, and saying that it can still happen even with the ban, for that is the world my son lives in now. Thank goodness they haven't started in on 911, as he will have a ton of inappropriate questions (from the American perspective I'm sure) and I fully expect another phone call...