Okla. Woman Shoots, Kills Intruder:

[xebec 195]

Anytime such a rare instance crops up such as this one in the OP it gets held up on this forum as "proof" guns make people "safer" yet such incidents are:

1) Rare

2) Single instances where a gun indeed harmed the right person involved

3) Proof of jack $h!t

Assaults, robberies, rapes and homicides aren't as rare as as you would like to think pollyanna....

I will concede your point that gun ownership entails a potentially greater exposure to risk, depending on your training and level of maturity in handling the responsibility that comes with being capable of using deadly force. I'm willing to agree that gun ownership is a poor choice for some. Those that can't, or won't, take that responsibility seriously can, and probably should, remain unarmed. They can continue to rely on responsible people to protect them and their loved ones. Good luck

Edited January 11, 2012 by xebec

[slim 1,530]

I remember this when it was on the news. I am from Broken Arrow oklahoma. In the last 12 months there have been two cases just in Muskogee oklahoma were intruders have shot and killed children in the house. The most recent was in december were a 2 year old was shot and killed by a guy trying to break in to someones house. The other kid last year was a 4 year old and was stabbed over 50 times with a pair os scissors for no reason. The intruder did not know the family at all. People around here are getting hit hard with it.

When seconds count.... the police are only 21 minutes away!

I always carry hollow points in my 357 nowadays.

That's a good policy.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Assaults, robberies, rapes and homicides aren't as rare as as you would like to think pollyanna....

I will concede your point that gun ownership entails a potentially greater exposure to risk, depending on your training and level of maturity in handling the responsibility that comes with being capable of using deadly force. I'm willing to agree that gun ownership is a poor choice for some. Those that can't, or won't, take that responsibility seriously can, and probably should, remain unarmed. They can continue to rely on responsible people to protect them and their loved ones. Good luck

Well said Clint Wanna-Be! Having a gun is a potential risk, and a responsibility, but you continue the VJ trend of falling for your own hype if simply having a gun magically imbues you with full protection from all the bad in the world and is all one needs to label themselves "responsible."

At least you are realistic enough to concede while a gun may protect you in a rare instance they do pose at least a modicum of added risk. And guns need to be handled responsibly. And indeed can be and often are handled responsibly by their owners.

In just the last few days we had a similar situation to the OP's with a homeowner shooting and killing an intruder. So yes it happens, people protect themselves and their homes with their guns. It is still rare though.

[Dave-n-Oksana 49]

In just the last few days we had a similar situation to the OP's with a homeowner shooting and killing an intruder. So yes it happens, people protect themselves and their homes with their guns. It is still rare though.

What you fail to understand is that you only hear about the ones where the intruder was injured or killed, but rarely about the ones where no one was injured and the intruder just went away because the intended victim was armed. There are an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year prevented in the United States because someone possessed a firearm.

[xebec 195]

Well said Clint Wanna-Be! Having a gun is a potential risk, and a responsibility, but you continue the VJ trend of falling for your own hype if simply having a gun magically imbues you with full protection from all the bad in the world and is all one needs to label themselves "responsible."

At least you are realistic enough to concede while a gun may protect you in a rare instance they do pose at least a modicum of added risk. And guns need to be handled responsibly. And indeed can be and often are handled responsibly by their owners.

In just the last few days we had a similar situation to the OP's with a homeowner shooting and killing an intruder. So yes it happens, people protect themselves and their homes with their guns. It is still rare though.

Not everyone is a wanna-be. I grew up with guns, served my time in the infantry, and have continued to train extensively with firearms, both formally and informally. It's increasingly obvious that in your estimation there should be a caste system.... a warrior class of police and military, and a herd of subjects (read slaves) beneath, who are incabable of excercising basic human rights like self defense. I refuse to join you in self-imposed slavery. You have no clue how rare or common self defense is in this country, with or without firearms- you can't possibly know. Your impression that this is rare is only that... an impression colored by your bias against people who choose to exercise a fundamental human right. There are many more people willing to defend themselves than you would like to believe.

Nowhere here have i seen anyone engaged in "hype" about the magical powers of guns.....errrr, except you and a few others who seem to reflexively talk about firearms as if they have some special power to cause violence and accidental death. They are a tool like any other tool- designed for a particular purpose. If they are misused by stupid, uninformed, reckless or evil people, they are dangerous, much like a hammer, knife, or car.

What you fail to understand is that you only hear about the ones where the intruder was injured or killed, but rarely about the ones where no one was injured and the intruder just went away because the intended victim was armed. There are an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year prevented in the United States because someone possessed a firearm.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Not at all zeb, I merely offset the rah-rah VJ gun nut crowd who hold up these stories, clearly creaming themselves in the hope someday they can be the hero too, with a bit of hopefully sobering reality.

I don't think private citizens shouldn't own guns and know plenty of responsible gun owners. But guns should be owned with at least a modicum of recognition that one thoughtless moment can mean disaster or tragedy.

[slim 1,530]

I don't think private citizens shouldn't own guns and know plenty of responsible gun owners. But guns should be owned with at least a modicum of recognition that one thoughtless moment can mean disaster or tragedy.

Moreso than any other household item?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Moreso than any other household item?

As much or more so than any other potentially dangerous household item, yes.

[xebec 195]

Not at all zeb, I merely offset the rah-rah VJ gun nut crowd who hold up these stories, clearly creaming themselves in the hope someday they can be the hero too, with a bit of hopefully sobering reality.

I don't think private citizens shouldn't own guns and know plenty of responsible gun owners. But guns should be owned with at least a modicum of recognition that one thoughtless moment can mean disaster or tragedy.

You are the bringer of sobering reality?

Violent crime is a sobering reality. Ruthless predators are a sobering reality. The inability to defend oneself, or other innocent people is a sobering reality as well, for people who become all quivery at the thought of a gun... Are the only "sobering realities" you care about the ones that align with your social/political views?

Your hyperbole doesn't go far in establishing your status as sober....

[slim 1,530]

As much or more so than any other potentially dangerous household item, yes.

500 kids accidentally killed with guns each year

1300+ kids drown in swimming pools each year

You can add, right? Or do you want me to add it up for you?

[james&olya 1,121]

What you fail to understand is that you only hear about the ones where the intruder was injured or killed, but rarely about the ones where no one was injured and the intruder just went away because the intended victim was armed. There are an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year prevented in the United States because someone possessed a firearm.

2.5 million? How was this number arrived at? What did they use as proof and how did they define these crimes?

[xebec 195]

2.5 million? How was this number arrived at? What did they use as proof and how did they define these crimes?

That figure corresponds with the numbers arrived at by Kleck and Gertz. Any number derived statistically like this will, of course, be questioned. But this study remains the most comprehensive attempt to quantify self-defense with a firearm yet conducted.

Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.

[slim 1,530]

That figure corresponds with the numbers arrived at by Kleck and Gertz. Any number derived statistically like this will, of course, be questioned. But this study remains the most comprehensive attempt to quantify self-defense with a firearm yet conducted.

Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.

You and your pesky facts.

[xebec 195]

You and your pesky facts.

I understand that it is ruthless to use such a harsh tool (facts) against the emotional hyperbolists here.... but we are talking about "sober realities," no?

[slim 1,530]

I understand that it is ruthless to use such a harsh tool (facts) against the emotional hyperbolists here.... but we are talking about "sober realities," no?

We should be talking about "common sense" gun laws.