What is the best 9mm auto pistol for HD?

[mox 298]

I actually had a dude tell me a few months ago that he needed to contact his teenage son who was away at college, "if you come home make sure you call first." He said he's going to shoot anything that moves at night. He's also of the "I don't want the light to give away my position." camp.

This is a dude with four kids and a wife still at home. I hope nobody gets thirsty!

Yet another idiot who has no business having a gun in his hands. Jeez.

Even with castle doctrine you still have to believe you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm. The only thing castle doctrine does is remove your duty to flee. Just because somebody comes crawling in through your open window doesn't mean you have the right to kill them.

Castle doctrine is nowhere near air tight either. Families of deceased burglars/homicidal manaiacs suddenly find themselves inundated with business cards from lawyers. I'm sure they'd salivate at discovering that no lights were on at the time of their client's unfortunate and tragic death.

There's a light switch on my weapon. I can point the light directly at anything that's possibly a threat and identify it as something intent on causing me death or serious bodily harm or something that's not a threat at all.

In the dark, it's hard to tell.

I've got an Insight XML on my Ruger precisely for this scenario. Pops off real easy for CC.

A shotgun doesn't spread all that much at normal indoor distances. It's better than a pistol, sure. But the strength of the shotgun comes mostly from it's multiple shot capability and ease of use. You still have to aim. Point at the doorway and empty is great, but now you have an empty club.

Also, as for "staying low" and "point and pull" anyone worth their salt is going to shoot through walls at the 3ft. level. Reason being is bullets go through walls just fine and 3ft. gets a groin/gut shot on anyone standing and torso/head on anyone kneeling. If you really want to get low.... get low! Really low. Crawl.

Again...It's posts like this that make me think you're about the only person here that should even own a gun.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's posts like this Slim that make me think you're about the only person here that should even own a gun.

(And my Ruger 9mm is a perfect HD gun, theoretically anyway.)

Posts like these are why I do not want anyone deciding if I can own a gun.

See, this is why I don't trust anyone else here with a gun. Silly rabbit, you don't hunt grizzlies with a 9mm.

This is why it is important that what you think does not matter.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

While you're away? How is your M-500 going to help you then? What if you come back and they're holding it on you?

Like I mentioned the wife is as cool as it gets. Iv'e seen her in a few hard pressed situations and I came out a bit surprised. That and other than my 300 weatherby she's fired every gun in this house including my S&W 500. I have complete faith in her holding her own. She has her .22 in her nightstand, and I have my shotgun leaning up against the side of my nightstand. Were covered in that dept.

A shotgun doesn't spread all that much at normal indoor distances. It's better than a pistol, sure. But the strength of the shotgun comes mostly from it's multiple shot capability and ease of use. You still have to aim. Point at the doorway and empty is great, but now you have an empty club.

The 500 comes or came with two barrels and two grips. One full choke and regular shoulder stock for hunting, and the pistol grip with shorter barrel with open choke. Back in the early 80's you got all that up here for less than $250..less when it was on sale. That and dumping your magazine, clip, whatever is for gang bangers.

Also, as for "staying low" and "point and pull" anyone worth their salt is going to shoot through walls at the 3ft. level. Reason being is bullets go through walls just fine and 3ft. gets a groin/gut shot on anyone standing and torso/head on anyone kneeling. If you really want to get low.... get low! Really low. Crawl.

The first thing you learn in the army after cleaning, and marching is crawling...lots and lots of crawling...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

See, this is why I don't trust anyone else here with a gun. Silly rabbit, you don't hunt grizzlies with a 9mm.

Did you get a concealed carry permit in Monterrey?

[mox 298]

Did you get a concealed carry permit in Monterrey?

I'm pretty sure Mexico doesn't issue CC permits to US citizens. I could be wrong though.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'm pretty sure Mexico doesn't issue CC permits to US citizens. I could be wrong though.

Typical non answer. How did you get a CC permit in California? Did someone else decide it was OK for you to have one?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Typical non answer. How did you get a CC permit in California? Did someone else decide it was OK for you to have one?

In the Peoples Republic of California you have to have "just cause" to get a CCW. They don't have Americans there, they have "subjects". Here in Alaska they still treat legal Americans with respect in regards to the Constitution of the United States of America. I can pack any of my loaded hand guns with me out side my house ...store, gas station, etc...or just for a nice Sunday drive. Alaska is still part of the United States and treats it's citizens as thus.

Down below is the Peoples Republic of California's take on it...

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/cag_opinion.html

The (1977) Attorney General's Opinion on Good Causes

OPINION NO. CR. 77/30 I.L. 'the issuing authority must determine whether the threat to the applicant (or other causal situation) is as real as the applicant asserts (e.g., is there a clear and present danger to the applicant, his spouse, his family or his employees)? Finally, if the danger is manifest, the authority should determine whether that danger cannot be significantly alleviated by alternative means of security and whether in fact can be lawfully mitigated by the applicant's obtaining a concealed weapon license.'

This decision was rendered By Attorney General Evelle J. Younger, August 23, 1977.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Why_Me

[mox 298]

Yes! You got it! That's how it works in California. Someone decides it's ok for you to have a CC permit, and then you get one! As someone who seems to be well-versed in the in's and out's of CC law, I'm surprised you had to ask.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes! You got it! That's how it works in California. Someone decides it's ok for you to have a CC permit, and then you get one! As someone who seems to be well-versed in the in's and out's of CC law, I'm surprised you had to ask.

Do you carry concealed in violation of the law? Or did you get a Caifornia permit?

[slim 1,530]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

Why would a single guy have stalkers? Women stalkers?

[visaveteran1 33]

I have free fire zones set up around my perimeter. If booby traps were legal I'd have those too. As is, all I have is obstacles to funnel them into my sectors of fire.

Even with castle doctrine you still have to believe you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm. The only thing castle doctrine does is remove your duty to flee. Just because somebody comes crawling in through your open window doesn't mean you have the right to kill them.

When you're running on adrenaline you resort to your most basic form of muscle memory and training. That's why so many of these mall ninjas, keyboard commandos and "I'd do it this way" folks have no idea what they're talking about.

There's a light switch on my weapon. I can point the light directly at anything that's possibly a threat and identify it as something intent on causing me death or serious bodily harm or something that's not a threat at all.

In the dark, it's hard to tell.

To take this a step further, anyone who's had the light pointed at them (especially a strobe) knows how disorienting it is to be on the opposite side of the switch. Those of you who don't want to give away your position should stand in a dark room sometime while someone points the lights in your eyes. If you've ever been involved in some law enforcement encounters, sometimes the cops will either wave the light around a little or they'll shine it at you, move it a little off, shine it back, etc. It's very easy to throw off someone's focus with a light.

As a matter of fact, my first line of defense is my 4-cell D MagLite. I feel reasonably comfortable going at it with any unarmed person while holding my maglite up in the air. I can shine in their eyes and if they need a smack, no worries. The mag is ready! Better than a baton because it has a light too. If a weapon comes out I can throw the light at them while I draw my pistol.

Ever been smacked with a 4-cell D MagLite? I think I'd rather have someone shoot at me!

While you're away? How is your M-500 going to help you then? What if you come back and they're holding it on you?

A shotgun doesn't spread all that much at normal indoor distances. It's better than a pistol, sure. But the strength of the shotgun comes mostly from it's multiple shot capability and ease of use. You still have to aim. Point at the doorway and empty is great, but now you have an empty club.

Also, as for "staying low" and "point and pull" anyone worth their salt is going to shoot through walls at the 3ft. level. Reason being is bullets go through walls just fine and 3ft. gets a groin/gut shot on anyone standing and torso/head on anyone kneeling. If you really want to get low.... get low! Really low. Crawl.

... it's not a .45.

This is interesting armchair expert talk.. Nothing wrong with that.

We were discussing night situations. How will I know the intentions of a night intruder? Ask? If I can confirm he's unarmed (doubtful) I'll try to hold him for police or chase him off. If I can't be certain he's unarmed, he's going down. I'm going to fear for my life and safety. Better tried by 12 then carried by 8. This home invasion deal also depends on the state you live in.

Muscle memory is a talking point. Reality is your fine motor skills disappear, you can get tunnel vision and you will feel fear, even if just a druggie robber. Your heart will race and you can easily miss even a large target from stressful breathing. That is a scary event and no one, save for cops and soldiers, will get enough constant training to operate like a Navy Seal.

I'm with you on lighted weapons or a small but power flashlight. I never suggested stumbling around in the dark. My 870 has a light. Just recently added that.

Edited January 23, 2012 by visaveteran1

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

Actually the lack of internet stalkers in Vermont is good reason not to have anyone else decide who can carry a gun. Must truly suck to live in a state where you have to ask permission from some political hack to have the means to defend your life. You cannot even go to a beauty parlor in CA without fear of getting killed by a stalker. No wonder California has such a crime problem. Un-armed victims!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

This is interesting armchair expert talk.. Nothing wrong with that.

We were discussing night situations. How will I know the intentions of a night intruder? Ask? If I can confirm he's unarmed (doubtful) I'll try to hold him for police or chase him off. If I can't be certain he's unarmed, he's going down. I'm going to fear for my life and safety. Better tried by 12 then carried by 8. This home invasion deal also depends on the state you live in.

Muscle memory is a talking point. Reality is your fine motor skills disappear, you can get tunnel vision and you will feel fear, even if just a druggie robber. Your heart will race and you can easily miss even a large target from stressful breathing. That is a scary event and no one, save for cops and soldiers, will get enough constant training to operate like a Navy Seal.

I'm with you on lighted weapons or a small but power flashlight. I never suggested stumbling around in the dark. My 870 has a light. Just recently added that.

That has to be the quote of the year on here so far. I'm saving that one.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That has to be the quote of the year on here so far. I'm saving that one.

Wait...carried by EIGHT! I thought it was 6. Never mind...RUB forum, I forgot.