What is the best 9mm auto pistol for HD?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

bad thing about lasers is they show where you are in the dark.

You don't need them in the daylight, and at night it's like hanging a big flashing neon sign that says; "Here I am!"

[slim 1,525]

I'd never use a laser except maybe if I was a checkpoint guard and used it for intimidation.

Best use of a laser is to designate a target for aerial bombardment.

bad thing about lasers is they show where you are in the dark.

IR laser with night vision handles that.

at night it's like hanging a big flashing neon sign that says; "Here I am!"

I love this argument. I hear it all the time from people. "That gives away your position."

The first thing you should do in a home defense scenario is turn on the lights.

[mox 298]

I love this argument. I hear it all the time from people. "That gives away your position."

The first thing you should do in a home defense scenario is turn on the lights.

It's posts like this Slim that make me think you're about the only person here that should even own a gun.

(And my Ruger 9mm is a perfect HD gun, theoretically anyway.)

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's posts like this Slim that make me think you're about the only person here that should even own a gun.

(And my Ruger 9mm is a perfect HD gun, theoretically anyway.)

Yes because I'm sure that Grizzly bear population in California can be a real killer at times.

kissing ####### on here much?

[mox 298]

See, this is why I don't trust anyone else here with a gun. Silly rabbit, you don't hunt grizzlies with a 9mm.

[visaveteran1 33]

I love this argument. I hear it all the time from people. "That gives away your position."

The first thing you should do in a home defense scenario is turn on the lights.

Maybe, maybe not. Too situation dependent to call an absolute action.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I know the layout of my house just as well as anyone imo. If someone has broken into my house during the night I wouldn't want to give them a target. In order to turn on my lights I have to turn on the bedroom light first, then the hallway light, then the kitchen light. I have a Mossberg 500 12 ga. with pistol grip loaded with 3" mags (#2 shot) within reach of my bed. It's an easy way to clear out a hallway or just about any room in the dark without being lit up and making myself an easy target.

[slim 1,525]

It's posts like this Slim that make me think you're about the only person here that should even own a gun.

Common sense aint always common.

Maybe, maybe not. Too situation dependent to call an absolute action.

If the situation is your home is too dark to see who you're about too shoot... it's probably too dark to know for certain that you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm.

"But slim, nobody should be in my house after lights out." Good. Does that give you the right to shoot someone just for breaking in?

There's a huge difference between a burglar crawling in through a popped window and a team of home invaders that kicks in your door. One means to victimize you by way of violence the other just wants to steal your stuff. Do you really want to kill someone for attempting to steal your stuff? I'm not advocating rolling over and just letting it happen but I am saying there should be a reasonable application of force in any confrontation and the level necessary is a lot harder to determine when you're unable to identify your target(s).

I know the layout of my house just as well as anyone imo. If someone has broken into my house during the night I wouldn't want to give them a target. In order to turn on my lights I have to turn on the bedroom light first, then the hallway light, then the kitchen light.

Why would you have to turn on those lights first? If you're familiar with your house you should be able to move through it without lights. Plus, I've never been to your house but 99.99% of the houses I've ever been to have either a squeaky bed, door, steps, floors, or something else that gives away movement be that from a homeowner or bad guy. Simply put, sound is going to give away your position long before flipping the light switch will.

Flipping on a light is either going to send someone running or help you determine what course of action you should take next. It's not going to give you away unless you're a ninja. By the time you get to the light switch someone's going to know you're coming.

I have a Mossberg 500 12 ga. with pistol grip loaded with 3" mags (#2 shot) within reach of my bed. It's an easy way to clear out a hallway or just about any room in the dark without being lit up and making myself an easy target.

I hope your bed doesn't squeak. I hope the floor doesn't make any noise when your feet hit it. I hope turning the door knob is so quiet the bad guys don't know which door just opened.

I also hope they haven't been in your house for more than a few minutes to the point where their vision has adjusted but yours hasn't. I'm sure your RUB wife will sit there all quietly while you go check it out.

Common sense, folks. You don't need free fire zones in your house. You don't need choke points and ambush sites. You need some common sense.

[mox 298]

If the situation is your home is too dark to see who you're about too shoot... it's probably too dark to know for certain that you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm.

Do you really want to kill someone for attempting to steal your stuff? I'm not advocating rolling over and just letting it happen but I am saying there should be a reasonable application of force in any confrontation and the level necessary is a lot harder to determine when you're unable to identify your target(s).

Heh, are you sure you're not one of mox's sock puppets? Come on Slim, somebody sticks a little toe onto your property without your say-so, and you not only have a right to gun them down, you have a moral responsibility to do so!

Flipping on a light is either going to send someone running or help you determine what course of action you should take next. It's not going to give you away unless you're a ninja. By the time you get to the light switch someone's going to know you're coming.

Could also be the little linoleum lizard up to get a drink, your teenager sneaking in or out to get laid and/or go to a party, or even some drunk numbskull walking into the wrong house and you left your door unlocked. Turns out your HD weapon of choice does not distinguish between homicidal maniacs and one of your family members.

[visaveteran1 33]

Does that give you the right to shoot someone just for breaking in?

Yes. Castle Doctrine. If you know it, and decide to come in anyway, you will feel the consequences. Otherwise, how is a gun a deterrent to crime?

As to common sense, it goes out the window when the adrenaline kicks in. If you've be out in it, you know what mean. If not, where is all this sage wisdom coming from?

Unless you have a central light switch (nobody), how will using limited lights work to your advantage. Like I said, maybe, maybe not.

Edited January 23, 2012 by visaveteran1

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Common sense aint always common.

If the situation is your home is too dark to see who you're about too shoot... it's probably too dark to know for certain that you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm.

"But slim, nobody should be in my house after lights out." Good. Does that give you the right to shoot someone just for breaking in?

There's a huge difference between a burglar crawling in through a popped window and a team of home invaders that kicks in your door. One means to victimize you by way of violence the other just wants to steal your stuff. Do you really want to kill someone for attempting to steal your stuff? I'm not advocating rolling over and just letting it happen but I am saying there should be a reasonable application of force in any confrontation and the level necessary is a lot harder to determine when you're unable to identify your target(s).

Why would you have to turn on those lights first? If you're familiar with your house you should be able to move through it without lights. Plus, I've never been to your house but 99.99% of the houses I've ever been to have either a squeaky bed, door, steps, floors, or something else that gives away movement be that from a homeowner or bad guy. Simply put, sound is going to give away your position long before flipping the light switch will.

Flipping on a light is either going to send someone running or help you determine what course of action you should take next. It's not going to give you away unless you're a ninja. By the time you get to the light switch someone's going to know you're coming.

I hope your bed doesn't squeak. I hope the floor doesn't make any noise when your feet hit it. I hope turning the door knob is so quiet the bad guys don't know which door just opened.

I also hope they haven't been in your house for more than a few minutes to the point where their vision has adjusted but yours hasn't. I'm sure your RUB wife will sit there all quietly while you go check it out.

Common sense, folks. You don't need free fire zones in your house. You don't need choke points and ambush sites. You need some common sense.

The RUB wife is as calm and cool as an ice cube. She showed me a few tricks in Minsk in regards to thieves and other peeps that go through your apartment while your away.

As far as the lights go...personally I wouldn't want to be flipping them on if I have home invaders in my house. I would rather stay low, point and pull. It's one advantage of a shotgun. You don't need to be right on your target to get a piece of #######.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Why_Me

[SMOKE 1,426]

Yes.

do yourself a favor. buy a .40. its the better choice. a nice combination of penetration & knock down power. as for which brand...go to a larger gunrange that rents guns for use @ the range & decide what you want after shooting a few of them.

[visaveteran1 33]

do yourself a favor. buy a .40. its the better choice. a nice combination of penetration & knock down power. as for which brand...go to a larger gunrange that rents guns for use @ the range & decide what you want after shooting a few of them.

I know the .40 is popular now. Lots of police switching to it. Only downside is the ammo is costlier, but not a deal breaker.

[slim 1,525]

Heh, are you sure you're not one of mox's sock puppets? Come on Slim, somebody sticks a little toe onto your property without your say-so, and you not only have a right to gun them down, you have a moral responsibility to do so!

I have free fire zones set up around my perimeter. If booby traps were legal I'd have those too. As is, all I have is obstacles to funnel them into my sectors of fire.

Could also be the little linoleum lizard up to get a drink, your teenager sneaking in or out to get laid and/or go to a party, or even some drunk numbskull walking into the wrong house and you left your door unlocked. Turns out your HD weapon of choice does not distinguish between homicidal maniacs and one of your family members.

I actually had a dude tell me a few months ago that he needed to contact his teenage son who was away at college, "if you come home make sure you call first." He said he's going to shoot anything that moves at night. He's also of the "I don't want the light to give away my position." camp.

This is a dude with four kids and a wife still at home. I hope nobody gets thirsty!

Yes. Castle Doctrine. If you know it, and decide to come in anyway, you will feel the consequences. Otherwise, how is a gun a deterrent to crime?

Even with castle doctrine you still have to believe you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm. The only thing castle doctrine does is remove your duty to flee. Just because somebody comes crawling in through your open window doesn't mean you have the right to kill them.

As to common sense, it goes out the window when the adrenaline kicks in. If you've be out in it, you know what mean. If not, where is all this sage wisdom coming from?

When you're running on adrenaline you resort to your most basic form of muscle memory and training. That's why so many of these mall ninjas, keyboard commandos and "I'd do it this way" folks have no idea what they're talking about.

Unless you have a central light switch (nobody), how will using limited lights work to your advantage. Like I said, maybe, maybe not.

There's a light switch on my weapon. I can point the light directly at anything that's possibly a threat and identify it as something intent on causing me death or serious bodily harm or something that's not a threat at all.

In the dark, it's hard to tell.

To take this a step further, anyone who's had the light pointed at them (especially a strobe) knows how disorienting it is to be on the opposite side of the switch. Those of you who don't want to give away your position should stand in a dark room sometime while someone points the lights in your eyes. If you've ever been involved in some law enforcement encounters, sometimes the cops will either wave the light around a little or they'll shine it at you, move it a little off, shine it back, etc. It's very easy to throw off someone's focus with a light.

As a matter of fact, my first line of defense is my 4-cell D MagLite. I feel reasonably comfortable going at it with any unarmed person while holding my maglite up in the air. I can shine in their eyes and if they need a smack, no worries. The mag is ready! Better than a baton because it has a light too. If a weapon comes out I can throw the light at them while I draw my pistol.

Ever been smacked with a 4-cell D MagLite? I think I'd rather have someone shoot at me!

The RUB wife is as calm and cool as an ice cube. She showed me a few tricks in Minsk in regards to thieves and other peeps that go through your apartment while your away.

While you're away? How is your M-500 going to help you then? What if you come back and they're holding it on you?

As far as the lights go...personally I wouldn't want to be flipping them on if I have home invaders in my house. I would rather stay low, point and pull. It's one advantage of a shotgun. You don't need to be right on your target to get a piece of #######.

A shotgun doesn't spread all that much at normal indoor distances. It's better than a pistol, sure. But the strength of the shotgun comes mostly from it's multiple shot capability and ease of use. You still have to aim. Point at the doorway and empty is great, but now you have an empty club.

Also, as for "staying low" and "point and pull" anyone worth their salt is going to shoot through walls at the 3ft. level. Reason being is bullets go through walls just fine and 3ft. gets a groin/gut shot on anyone standing and torso/head on anyone kneeling. If you really want to get low.... get low! Really low. Crawl.

Only downside is

... it's not a .45.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Ever been smacked with a 4-cell D MagLite?

yes, i have. yes, it sucked.