Refusal of Entry

[riss 12]

Hi there everyone.

My fiance and I got engaged recently while I was on a 3-month visit to the US on the VWP. We're now planning to apply for a K-1 visa, and I had hoped to visit him again soon, until I learned of the possibility that I could be refused entry at the POE. I read some very disturbing stories of people being intimidated, having their emails read, etc., and even one person who said he was taken off in handcuffs to a county jail cell overnight since the next available flight was the following day. I dearly want to visit my fiance again as it sounds like it could be many months before we have our K-1 visa - but I'm uncertain about what sort of risk I'm taking if there's a possibility of being 'sent home'.

Does anyone know exactly what happens, with a refusal of entry?

Specifically: Who pays for the return ticket? I read in some places that you pay for it yourself, and others said that the airlines that brought you in is responsible for taking you back at their own expense. Now, if it's you who has to pay for the return ticket, can you use the ticket you already have, and somehow get the date changed? (difficult to do last-minute I imagine) If I had to buy a last minute ticket back to Australia it would cost $3500 (!!!)

Secondly, is it normal for someone denied entry to be placed in detention, and does this really involve being locked in a cell or taken to a regular prison???

Thanks in advance for any insights/advice! It's so good to have a place to read about and share experiences with others who understand the joys and hardships of this journey.

Riss

[canadian_wife 1,829]

WOW! Ok, well I was denied entry twice. It had no effect on our eventual issuance of my visa

Now, I was denied at a land crossing but from what I hear, you are responsible for paying your way home, why would the airline pay? They didnt' get you refused.

You are not a criminal if you are refused, you broke no laws so why would they put you in prison? They will, however, detain you. If you are refused entry into the US and the next flight isn't available until hours later, what else are they supposed to do? They'll likely put you in a holding facility until the next flight is available.

Now, there is no guarentee that you'll be admitted into the US ever, to make your chances easier you should carry strong ties to Australia and NEVER lie to the CBP.

Good luck

[Andy & Sue 31]

Hi there everyone.

My fiance and I got engaged recently while I was on a 3-month visit to the US on the VWP. We're now planning to apply for a K-1 visa, and I had hoped to visit him again soon, until I learned of the possibility that I could be refused entry at the POE. I read some very disturbing stories of people being intimidated, having their emails read, etc., and even one person who said he was taken off in handcuffs to a county jail cell overnight since the next available flight was the following day. I dearly want to visit my fiance again as it sounds like it could be many months before we have our K-1 visa - but I'm uncertain about what sort of risk I'm taking if there's a possibility of being 'sent home'.

Does anyone know exactly what happens, with a refusal of entry?

Specifically: Who pays for the return ticket? I read in some places that you pay for it yourself, and others said that the airlines that brought you in is responsible for taking you back at their own expense. Now, if it's you who has to pay for the return ticket, can you use the ticket you already have, and somehow get the date changed? (difficult to do last-minute I imagine) If I had to buy a last minute ticket back to Australia it would cost $3500 (!!!)

Secondly, is it normal for someone denied entry to be placed in detention, and does this really involve being locked in a cell or taken to a regular prison???

Thanks in advance for any insights/advice! It's so good to have a place to read about and share experiences with others who understand the joys and hardships of this journey.

Riss

If you state you are there to see your fiance, then it would raise concerns with the Immigration Officer. I agree with Canadia-wife that you should provide ties to home. Mortgage or rental agreement, letter from employer etc. Family ties.

Never volunteer any information just answer what is asked.

[riss 12]

Hi Canadian Wife, Andy & Sue - thanks for the responses.

Canadian Wife, I also had been under the definite impression that the return flight was paid for by the passenger. But I googled 'denial of entry' to try and find out what the procedure was for dealing with the person afterwards, and I came across a few posts in other sites where people said that the airlines is responsible for returning the person back. The reasoning was that it's somehow considered the airlines' responsibility not to carry someone to another country in the first place, if that person doesn't have the appropriate qualifications for entry. I have actually heard something that comes in line with that, once. My parents were going overseas a few years ago and the official at check-in didn't think their visas were adequate. He said that if they got refused and sent back, his office would be fined for allowing them on the flight.

I figured I'd ask the question here because after doing what research I could on the internet, I haven't come across any formal/official information about this. Just opinions, from what I can tell, but all by people who seem confident about what they're saying, yet which contradict each other. I guess I could try calling immigration to ask.

The account I read of the man who was handcuffed etc. was on another immigration forum similar to this one. He was also on the visa waiver program, like myself, but he was from the UK, and had recently become engaged. He told the truth but couldn't show enough ties. He said he was quite traumatised by the way he was treated. Apparently they transferred him to a county jail because there wasn't anywhere else to hold him, and he was in a cell with a bunch of convicted criminals, all his personal belongings including his ring and so forth were taken from him and only returned an hour before the flight, and he was only allowed two very short phone calls to his fiancee. I just wondered if that was a normal thing to happen! It seems a bit odd to me, if you hadn't committed a crime and you weren't resisting being returned home, why they'd even need to hold you anywhere. And if you have to pay for the flight back yourself, how do you make the arrangements and try to change your ticket or find a flight that isn't ridiculously expensive, if you're stuck in a cell and not allowed to use a telephone or the internet? I want to visit so very much, but I really want to know what I could be letting myself in for - the worst-case scenario I guess.

I'm concerned about whether my 'strong ties' would be considered adequate. I don't have a job, and I will have been overseas travelling for half a year, by the time I try to re-enter the US (if I do). It would be clear to the officials that I don't *need* to be in Australia since I've been able to stay away all this time. I have joint ownership of a home, with my ex-boyfriend, and I could show things like bank accounts, and maybe bills with joint names of myself and ex-boyfriend once again. I don't really have much else. My parents live in Australia, I could show evidence of that. But it seems to me like the most compelling evidence of ties would be a letter of employment or enrollment in a course of study, neither of which I have. I had a long read through the 'yes, you can visit' thread on this site, it was promising to hear of all the people who have been admitted without problems, but it's certainly no sure thing and I worry about what would happen if things went wrong. Trying to learn as much as I can to see if that might help me decide what to do.

Anyway, thanks for reading all this, to everyone who does!

Riss

[canadian_wife 1,829]

Now maybe I could believe that the airline would fund the trip back if they were responsible, however, they are NOT US customs agents, how are they supposed to check your ties. They are not authorized to do so. If you get turned away, bet on that you'll have to fund the trip back.

Good luck, entrance is never a guarentee. All you can do is collect your ties and give it your best shot. No reason to think that you will be denied.

Also, don't believe everything you read on the internet. Except for what I say of course. I am a renowned immigration attorney with over 50 years experience in immigration (and you shouldn't believe that either)

Good luck

[riss 12]

Does anyone else have any personal experience/hearsay they could share?

Thanks for the encouragement, Canadian Wife. I'm sort of leaning towards giving it a go. Still just would like to know how it all works and what sort of cost is involved if you have to go back home at short notice. If only Australia wasn't so far away!

[payxibka 10,047]

The account I read of the man who was handcuffed etc. was on another immigration forum similar to this one. He was also on the visa waiver program, like myself, but he was from the UK, and had recently become engaged. He told the truth but couldn't show enough ties. He said he was quite traumatised by the way he was treated. Apparently they transferred him to a county jail because there wasn't anywhere else to hold him, and he was in a cell with a bunch of convicted criminals, all his personal belongings including his ring and so forth were taken from him and only returned an hour before the flight, and he was only allowed two very short phone calls to his fiancee. I just wondered if that was a normal thing to happen! It seems a bit odd to me, if you hadn't committed a crime and you weren't resisting being returned home, why they'd even need to hold you anywhere. And if you have to pay for the flight back yourself, how do you make the arrangements and try to change your ticket or find a flight that isn't ridiculously expensive, if you're stuck in a cell and not allowed to use a telephone or the internet? I want to visit so very much, but I really want to know what I could be letting myself in for - the worst-case scenario I guess.

Where else will they hold someone overnight once the POE closes? They cannot let him/her run a muck around into the airport.

No need to find a flight, make travel arrangements or change a ticket. The deal is to get this person out on the next available flight. Period. No regard to price. The airline does this.

[Ryan & Amanda 1]

Where else will they hold someone overnight once the POE closes? They cannot let him/her run a muck around into the airport.

No need to find a flight, make travel arrangements or change a ticket. The deal is to get this person out on the next available flight. Period. No regard to price. The airline does this.

I have NO personal experience with this, but just a thought in reply to the poster above. If the airline's main goal is getting the person out on the next available flight, and you're worried about being held (don't blame you there!), I would try and schedule a flight that arrives early in the morning. That way, if something happens, you hopefully would get immediately sent home since I'm sure many flights leave during the day with no stayover.

Best of luck either way!

[payxibka 10,047]

I have NO personal experience with this, but just a thought in reply to the poster above. If the airline's main goal is getting the person out on the next available flight, and you're worried about being held (don't blame you there!), I would try and schedule a flight that arrives early in the morning. That way, if something happens, you hopefully would get immediately sent home since I'm sure many flights leave during the day with no stayover.

Best of luck either way!

unless they are oversold... and the way flights are now across the pond due to capacity reductions, it is more than likely

[djeslinger 0]

Forgive my ignorance but....... If a person has shown enough evidence to the embassy to recieve the visa, why would entry be denied for any reason the applicant had already proven to another us official? I would think anyone at the POE would say the same things as when they were granted the visa. Why now would those ties that allowed applicant to qualify for the visa, be insufficent to actually enter?

second, Is this really that common an occurance?

Third, From what i read, when you attempt to enter at a POE, you are actually having ANOTHER interview? It is not merely handing them papers, or a passport, and answering a few simple questions? ( Example: why are you coming here, how long you will stay, where will you stay?)

[MalaysianGirl 26]

Forgive my ignorance but....... If a person has shown enough evidence to the embassy to recieve the visa, why would entry be denied for any reason the applicant had already proven to another us official? I would think anyone at the POE would say the same things as when they were granted the visa. Why now would those ties that allowed applicant to qualify for the visa, be insufficent to actually enter?

second, Is this really that common an occurance?

Third, From what i read, when you attempt to enter at a POE, you are actually having ANOTHER interview? It is not merely handing them papers, or a passport, and answering a few simple questions? ( Example: why are you coming here, how long you will stay, where will you stay?)

djeslinger, the OP plans to go to the US on the Visa Waiver Programme (VWP), so no B2 visa is needed. Hence the OP doesn't need to go to the embassy for any interview.

Also, the "interview" at the POE is not exactly an interview. It's just the CBP officer asking the traveller about why he/she wants to visit, whether he/she has a ticket to go home, etc. It's generally much shorter than the interview at the embassy for a B2 visa.

[djeslinger 0]

djeslinger, the OP plans to go to the US on the Visa Waiver Programme (VWP), so no B2 visa is needed. Hence the OP doesn't need to go to the embassy for any interview.

Also, the "interview" at the POE is not exactly an interview. It's just the CBP officer asking the traveller about why he/she wants to visit, whether he/she has a ticket to go home, etc. It's generally much shorter than the interview at the embassy for a B2 visa.

thank you for your kind explination... i am curious though.... if someone has a B-2 or a F-1, are they interviewed at the POE like this? (

Edited December 26, 2011 by djeslinger

[MalaysianGirl 26]

thank you for your kind explination... i am curious though.... if someone has a B-2 or a F-1, are they interviewed at the POE like this? (

That's what I went through at the POE (and I was holding a B2 visa). Not sure if it's the same for everyone else.

[payxibka 10,047]

thank you for your kind explination... i am curious though.... if someone has a B-2 or a F-1, are they interviewed at the POE like this? (

B-2 and F-1 are very different entry categories and will be "treated" differently. In a nutshell, each entry category has its different entry "requirements", and all within the category are treated the same

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

The airline is legally obligated to return the passenger to their point of departure, but most airlines include a reimbursement clause in their contract of carriage (anybody bother to read those when they buy a ticket?). Because the airline could get stuck with having to return a denied passenger they will usually examine the passengers travel documents before boarding them, and often insist on the passenger having a paid return ticket. This way they've already been at least partially paid for the cost of returning them if they are denied entry.

The airline's legal obligation ends when the passenger has been admitted to the US. If the passenger is forced to leave after being admitted then it's no longer a denied entry, but a removal or deportation. The airline can insist on the ticket being pre-paid. If the passenger can't pay then the US government will, but it will be an extra black mark in the passenger's file if the US government has to pick up the tab.

Someone denied entry at an airport is usually held until they can be escorted to the next available return flight, but most international airports in the US have a CBP detention facility which resembles a small jail. They don't usually take people to a local jail unless the detention facility is full. If someone is denied entry for a discretionary reason (lack of ties, etc.), and CBP considers them a low risk, then they might release them into the custody of the airline rather than putting them in detention.