Visa Denied under section 221(g)

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Sole custudy is different that the father having NO rights isn't it? That was the argument I was making, not the custody arrangement.

But thanks for the education

Not really. Sole legal custody means she makes all the decisions and he can't do jack about it. It's when there's joint custody that things like where she can live, what school etc he actually has a say in but if he doesn't she just has to flash the sole custody paper and she wins. He could fight for rights/custody but according to those links he'd be pretty hard pressed unless the child was legitimized unless he actually showed an interest in the child since birth (visiting etc).

I do kinda agree with it though because he could have had joint custody if only he did something after the birth. I hate it that men that show no interest have rights when their sole purpose of exercising them is to piss off/inconvenience the mother.

[chadobrian 0]

sorry to hear this i know how u feel they told me my fiance was not given visa because they felt it was only for immigration purpose after drilling him about my ex husband my question is did they send it back yo the uscis to get more evidence cause that is what they told me they were gona do but u got a quick second interview date great that is what i would love...lonely

[Josie-Be-Happy 11]

Although I do not know enough to give you any advice, I can feel your pain from what you posted. I wish you and your family the best of luck.

[Rebecca616 38]

yuck! What a terrible predicament! Like others have said, if you were able to obtain sole custody of your child, that would be one way to move there. I too would have moved to Morocco if my circumstances were different. We just recieved noa2 so the interview will be coming up and i try not to dwell on the negetive but it gets a little difficult when you read about more denials than approvals from Casablanca.

[Tahlisha 28]

My fiance had his second interview today. The visa was denied. The CO told him that it was because of my son and the proof of a bonafide relationship. (The CO didnt even look at the proof that we sent and she asked questions about my brothers father and my mothers occupation. Two things we never talked about so he didnt know the answers) She told him that because my sons father still has rights to him this would cause a problem with the visa. In the state of GA my sons biological father has no rights because we were never married. My son was not legitimized, but since his bio father signed the birth certificate they claim he has rights. I cant get my sons passport because of this. The deadbeat doesnt pay child support, he was abusive toward myself and my son, he does drugs, and he NEVER contacts me to see my son. Of course he blames me, and says that I wont let him see him. He gets to be with whomever he wants to be with, go where ever he wants to go, and do what he wants to do, but I cant do anything. He is still controlling my life!! I want a family! My fiance has spent more time and done more for my son over the past year then his bio father has ever done for him! As far as our relationship goes...yes, Ive only been to Morocco once, but money and reliable child care (since I cant take my son with me),and my job, keeps me from going again. I am far from a gullable person, and I do not fall for BS...I know all about the fraudulent marriage stuff...but I know in my heart that this man is NOT doing this. I have never seen such a sincere man. He is there for me whenever I need him! He has sent myself and my son gifts, he even sent me money one time when I had some unexpected expenses. He is very well educated, and his family is not poor. He doesnt even want to come here! He wanted myself and my son to live in Morocco, but since I cant get my sons passport, we cant go. I contacted the USCIS, and the senate today after the interview. I dont know what else to do. I love this man!! Please help!!!

I am sorry to hear that you are going through this..... You can petition the courts for permission to take your son to Morocco. I am planning to do the same thing here in Maryland.

[brian_n_phuong 193]

I hate it that men that show no interest have rights when their sole purpose of exercising them is to piss off/inconvenience the mother.

Lets not get on a high horse about non-custodial fathers. In my experience there are many custodial moms whose desire is to erase the ex from her "new" life, which she then extends to the child by default. The "rights" you speak of are to protect the CHILD, and allow the child to develop an independant relationship with the father. Are there bad apples, of course, but those bad apples exist on BOTH sides! We have only heard ONE side of this story from the OP, yet everyone bashes a father who is not here to defend himself. I only hope for the sake of the child that the CHILD'S rights are protected through a court hearing to determine what is BEST for the CHILD.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Lets not get on a high horse about non-custodial fathers. In my experience there are many custodial moms whose desire is to erase the ex from her "new" life, which she then extends to the child by default. The "rights" you speak of are to protect the CHILD, and allow the child to develop an independant relationship with the father. Are there bad apples, of course, but those bad apples exist on BOTH sides! We have only heard ONE side of this story from the OP, yet everyone bashes a father who is not here to defend himself. I only hope for the sake of the child that the CHILD'S rights are protected through a court hearing to determine what is BEST for the CHILD.

I suggest you actually read what I wrote: "I hate that men who have no interest..." being the key phrase. I agree that the child's rights are important, but I was referring to fathers (and mothers as well) who don't actually give two sh*ts about the child but use their "rights" (and the child) as a control for the other parent, so it's good that in GA at least the father has to SHOW interest to get rights (if unmarried), which I think is great.

As to the OP's child's father - we were discussing the rules of GA which state he HAS no rights as they were unmarried, and had he tried to actually gain them he would, so he obviously doesn't care (or know about the rules which again shows he doesn't care to even look into it).

[Girl from Celebes 588]

My understanding is that you do not need his permission if his name is not on the birth certificate. This is for passport purposes...is that what youre asking?

Correct me if I am wrong. My fiance has a friend and he has a child out of wedlock. He gave the mother of his son sole custody. But, when it comes to make a passport, the mother had asked him to obtain power of attorney to giving permission for it and also a letter state that he allows his son to travel to another country. My fiance thought that was weird. If the father already gave a sole custody to the mother, why it does still need permission?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I don't know of any state where a grant of sole physical and legal custody results in the loss of the non-custodial parent's rights. After my last divorce I got sole physical and legal custody of my daughter, but her mother still had parental rights. The courts made it clear that she would not lose those rights unless they were revoked by the court or she willfully gave them up, both of which are very rare. I did need my ex-wife's permission to get my daughter a passport.

[MIBEN 83]

I agree you still need the none custodial parent's help to get passports. I had the same issue, my ex-husband and I were both military and regardless of what the divorce decree read when it came down to getting passports or getting the children out of the country I was always asked for a notarized letter from him authorizing issuance of passport or travel.

In regards to the Visa, you have to overcome the first finding. I don't recommend running off and getting married unless you are able to get some trips under your belt to Morocco. That was one of the first questions they asked my husband, how many times has she visited you and for how long each trip. We have friends that are married that were denied on those basis alone she had only visited him once and they married on that visit. In their case she has 3 children all under 18 and it is very hard for her to visit but unless she visits and shows more interaction as a married couple the embassy finds it hard to believe that a bonafide relationship/marriage can be based on a one time visit. I got to know my husband so much more converstating on an instant messenger service over 18 months, we had no choice but to talk about everything under the sun and just going through the process made us closer but the COs do not buy that for one minute their filter is set on fraud alert. Those visits make a big difference but that alone normally does not get you a no. There are many redflags they look for:

- Age differences

- Previous relationships with Americans that implied immigration.

- How soon after meeting did he show a romantic interest?

- How soon after meeting did he profess his love?

- How soon after meeting did he propose marriage?

- In conversations provided did you talk, agree or disagree about religion or money. If you spoke in a different language from English or Arabic translate all conversations they only want to see documents in English.

- How well he knows you this includes your family(in great detail), jobs, previous marriages, chidren(in detail), monies (all accounts) etc...everything and anything.

- First impressions make a difference, applicant has to dress well and be confident at the interview not soft spoken.

- Pictures ensure you include family in the pictures, I am not saying stage them but they want to see genuine acceptance into the family. I have an independent relationship with his family outside of our relationship and they could see that in our pics.

My observation has been that when they call you back for a second interview at Casa within in two weeks it is normally not good. Things I have observed as a good sign are keeping your passport, giving you a 221(g) simply to complete the application any missing documents or working with you without a straight denial (they are well versed at handing out denials), the CO tells you it is approved but placed on AP. People hate AP in Morocco but I have found that it is a good sign, they are working your case which is much better than being told we don't believe you and here is your 221(g) for denial.

I know in the haste of wanting to be with our loved ones we oversee the job the COs have to do but being a retired military officer that knows about force protection and the job we are charged to do to protect Americans and our way of life I can fully understand why they have to do what they do especially because Morocco has a very high fraud rate. So I can say be prepared for the next go round and try not to be upset at how the system is set up but rather try to work with it to meet their requirements and get your loved one home. We are here to provide the best support we can to make everyone that truly is doing everything honestly successful.

My heart goes out to ladies who really wish to go there but have no support system to help with the care of their children to visit their spouse. I wish you both the best of luck.

[Boiler 45,673]

Why not trade Child Support for the Passport?

[nigerwife 17]

I have sole legal custody of my children from my first marriage. I was able to get them passports without my ex-husband's "permission". I simply presented a copy of the court papers outlining full custody when applying.

I did, however, need his permission to legally move them out of the country. Interestingly enough, I did as Boiler suggested and negotiated a bit by forgiving all the unpaid child support, joint debt and lowered monthly child support. He gave his permission, my lawyer wrote it all up, everyone signed off and I moved my kids to Nigeria.

Although I always carried a copy of the new custody paperwork with me during our varied international travels, I was not once asked for proof that I had permission to travel with my children outside of the country. Not by any airline, immigration or customs in any country. So, I would argue that you can travel with your child outside of the US without the other parents permission on Vacation. Permanently relocating them is another matter entirely.

You probably want to talk to a family law attorney in GA. Most states have organizations that offer free or reduced family law services if you cannot afford a private attorney.

Just my personal experience.....

[4ever mine 9]

I have sole legal custody of my children from my first marriage. I was able to get them passports without my ex-husband's "permission". I simply presented a copy of the court papers outlining full custody when applying.

I did, however, need his permission to legally move them out of the country. Interestingly enough, I did as Boiler suggested and negotiated a bit by forgiving all the unpaid child support, joint debt and lowered monthly child support. He gave his permission, my lawyer wrote it all up, everyone signed off and I moved my kids to Nigeria.

Although I always carried a copy of the new custody paperwork with me during our varied international travels, I was not once asked for proof that I had permission to travel with my children outside of the country. Not by any airline, immigration or customs in any country. So, I would argue that you can travel with your child outside of the US without the other parents permission on Vacation. Permanently relocating them is another matter entirely.

You probably want to talk to a family law attorney in GA. Most states have organizations that offer free or reduced family law services if you cannot afford a private attorney.

Just my personal experience.....

I do not think that the custody had a bearing on the case as much as the lack of knowledge that the beneficiary may of had of the custody arrangement. My husband was asked if my children came to visit him. I had to have my sons biological father sign the passport application and he also provided me with a notarized statement giving me permission to take my one son this past month on an international trip to Morocco. I was up front with USCIS during the NOIR process and provided them with documentation to that affect. They are looking for the bona fides of a relationship, certain things must be discussed in detail to be prepared for an interview. Even if the beneficiary has the right answer, they look for other physical indicators as well. Morocco is diificult on every level becaue of the stigma associated with Moroccan men. I suggest that you start to prepare a rebuttal now as if you were going to present it before a federal court. The wait now will be hard, but you can overcome this in time.

I wish you the best.

[Therealworld 90]

If you have some type of legal document that says you have sole custody you do not need the dads approval even if he is on the birth certificate. At least that is how it is in some places. I suggest you look into it

[brian_n_phuong 193]

If you have some type of legal document that says you have sole custody you do not need the dads approval even if he is on the birth certificate. At least that is how it is in some places. I suggest you look into it

Which places are those? Can you elaborate?

How about if the father snatches the child away from the mother without a court hearing, would you be in favor of that?

The point is that there are bad mothers and fathers, and the law is there to protect what is best for the child. It's not about getting approval from either parent, but allowing both parents to have a day in court and an impartial third party listening to both sides of the story. Thank God that laws have been enacted to protect the rights of the child , and not simply treat the child like a prized possesion of either parent.

Edited December 23, 2011 by brian_n_phuong