Waiting..... Waiting

[Hank_ 9,174]

the pastor just tells me be ready for it, and let the family go on their merry way.... if it doesn't affect you, don't let it bother you.... people have opinions, just like people have to use the C.R. Doesn't mean their good or bad, just means they stink too.

~ hmm, pastor told you the same thing most on here say yet you hang onto this BS with your sister like a dog with bone.. Why?

Its seems you are not looking for guidance from your pastor or anyone else, you just want the drama.

Validation train will not be arriving

[MuDelphi 159]

Most of what your sister stated was spot on.

[Crashed~N2~Me 970]

Most of what your sister stated was spot on.

She definitely made some direct hits. Afterall... the (boat deal) "agreement" speaks volumes.

The boat deal...gonna "lift up" the village...promises promises...and all cancelled after bride was delivered.

Actions speak louder than words.

(but) That doesn't give his sister the right to defame his wife and minimize / classify her to / as the equivalent of purchased goods (or a prostituted daughter). That's a big NO NO.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Crashed~N2~Me

[Ban Hammer 13,110]

Most of what your sister stated was spot on.

most of what his sister said was judgmental.

[Hank_ 9,174]

most of what his sister said was judgmental.

[Hank_ 9,174]

WOW this sentence alone makes me sick, even you know yourself that what you did is wrong on many levels by the statement you just made about being married to your daughter!

That poor child......

... hmm, sort of like a bad penny here you are.

...these comments aren't necessary are they?

Edited December 24, 2011 by Hank_Amy

[southcalhog 43]

WOW this sentence alone makes me sick, even you know yourself that what you did is wrong on many levels by the statement you just made about being married to your daughter!

That poor child......

"Worst than a bad Penny"

Mike cut the Dude some slack. Lets not be judgemental on Darren.

[rlogan 2,036]

Actually, I WAS expecting this response from my Dad and Mom or my Brother. NOT from my sister.

Four out of four dead wrong, eh? No pattern here.

[rlogan 2,036]

yes, I did call my cousin, and tell them Gretchen is my wife. I explained I had not told my parents yet, so I did not want the "grapevine" going beforehand.

Doing the opposite of what we are saying.

No pattern here either.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Darren is going to do whatever creates the most drama - maybe putting on a show for Gretchen.

[rlogan 2,036]

guess it is just something I should expect from people. Very very few of my friends and family have re-acted like my sister has. My sister is really the first time I am dealing with the reaction. I know I have more to come. I am trying my best to find a way to win my sister over without losing other people....

Manipulators set up ambushes because the element of surprise works to their advantage. They have already thought through your reaction, and are ready to counterpunch.

If we apply the rule that one is doing the opposite of what one is saying, then the reaction of the sister was as intended. (The ambush marriage with the little hottie Filipina.) It worked well because it got her upset, bearing in mind the only "facts" we have are from a source of questionable reliability.

If you get them upset and shooting off their mouths then that is the ideal because then you can play the victim.

and I have been sounding off here because I really did not want to take it to the family....

False dichotomy nonsense.

I figured they would be dealing with it without me.....

Circular reasoning. You decided not to tell, so there is nothing to "figure" about why they don't know.

Bob 4 Anna is asking why people are co-dependents in this manipulative interplay. Because it is learned. You do what you learned when you were young.

Got another one coming too I guess. Boy or girl?

[Darnell 8,478]

how do you respond to this: I have known since last year that you were trying to import a mail order bride. I assume that you have accomplished it since you are now married. I wish that I could congratulate you but since this is a purely business transaction, I cannot.

I'm prolly too late, but

you shouldn't respond at all.

In fact, you two shouldn't show up at any family gatherings this season.

Christmas time is a time for family - yours has already drawn the line in the sand.

Now, IMO, you'll have to work on each member of your family, individually, to get them to 'cross over', back into yer camp.

It's not just this simple fact yer married, there's other stuff they're pissed about when you got divorced.

So, this Lenten Season - uhm - give them a pass, no further contact - don't even show up. No phone calls, no email, nothing.

If'n yer in route , uh - if you read this prior to going through the door, stay in a hotel for a day, instead, then fly back to AZ.

They're already p|ssed at you from shearing off from THEIR church, ages past, now you've brought in a foreigner - might as well be an INFIDEL in their eyes, for now.

Christmas is not the time, imo, to take this on.

Hope you have some good salve for the bruises.

I wouldn't wish to be in your shoes on any level. I too, have some fundamentalists in my family - we stopped talking in my mid-twenties. (I'm in my mid forties now, no loss)

[calibob 73]

I'm prolly too late, but

you shouldn't respond at all.

In fact, you two shouldn't show up at any family gatherings this season.

Christmas time is a time for family - yours has already drawn the line in the sand.

Now, IMO, you'll have to work on each member of your family, individually, to get them to 'cross over', back into yer camp.

It's not just this simple fact yer married, there's other stuff they're pissed about when you got divorced.

So, this Lenten Season - uhm - give them a pass, no further contact - don't even show up. No phone calls, no email, nothing.

If'n yer in route , uh - if you read this prior to going through the door, stay in a hotel for a day, instead, then fly back to AZ.

They're already p|ssed at you from shearing off from THEIR church, ages past, now you've brought in a foreigner - might as well be an INFIDEL in their eyes, for now.

Christmas is not the time, imo, to take this on.

Hope you have some good salve for the bruises.

I wouldn't wish to be in your shoes on any level. I too, have some fundamentalists in my family - we stopped talking in my mid-twenties. (I'm in my mid forties now, no loss)

Cut the strings and set yourself free to be your own man and not looking at your shadow for guidance or approval. I also had some "manipulative and controlling" people in my life/family who were totally unhealthy for me both mentally and physically. Jettison them, and if they come back to you with a true change (leopards can't change their spots though) then welcome them back on your terms. Otherwise man up, you have a new family and another chance to live the life of your choosing.

Bob

[gretchen_darren 67]

thanks for the input. I talked to my cousin and explained things to them. I did not want to surprise them this Sunday, but also, i did not know how the grapevine is working, whether my ex, or my family. I told my cousin, I just did not want them causing problems nor did I want them involved in am extended family issue. i let my cousin decide if they still wanted us to come or not on Sunday.

No we are not showing up to my family back in Ohio or Indiana. Nothing is being done there. i am only seeing my local cousin because of how we get along. My extended family loves me, probably because I am not a fundamentalist or someone who judges people. I try to see you are you are. No one is perfect.

As for the marrying my daughter statement... it is taken completely out of context. Also, one must know, I WAS NOT looking for a Filipina or an Asian girl at all. I was looking for and talking to Russian/Ukraine girls. I even traveled to meet a girl in Ukraine. Even though that meeting failed, I was still taking Russian language lessons. It just happened Gretchen's "aunt" lived near the place I was taking Russian Language lessons. I love Ukrainian/Moldovan food. I only talked to Asian girls because of the "paris hilton complex" I was running into with some girls in Russia. (come to find out, this is a common symptom in some Russian girls.)

I am still sending money to the family. I sent some money Christmas Eve. The boat is still on. This was post engagement party conversation. AFTER getting engaged, I wanted to know more about the family. How the family needed help. The boat WAS NOT a condition of marriage. I wanted to know how living conditions were and how I could work with her dad to solve things.

As for my family, when my sister had the battery go bad in her car, I gave her money to fix it. When my brother needed a car to learn how to drive, I gave my parents a car. during high school, I would take care of my siblings in the evening, plus cook dinner for the family. Having food ready for when my parents came home. Plus I changed my brother's diapers when my sister refused to... someone had to do it. I did things many men normally don't do because I was helping out the family. Yes, I ended up on the outs over many things. but never disowned. The problem is, her pastor is different from my pastor as well as different religions.

As for my family, I have learned for work "avoided confrontation is not a proper management tool." You must confront and set expectations, plus provide feedback when expectations are missed. My have avoided issues with my family which now I am correcting. Also, this may have been what hurt my first marriage. because I know my anger, I was working hard to be in control of myself in order to not say harmful or hurtful things. however, that control gave my ex the belief I was not "wearing the pants" and she could make the family decisions without me. Being with Gretchen, spending time in the village, plus also spending time in Ukraine. I have learned how to be more assertive. Gretchen will follow as long as I stay strong and heed her input. Being in Russia, I learned how strong men are in things. This is where my sister's husband does not like me. I do for family, cook, clean, do the dishes, change diapers, feed kids, etc. My sister's husband does not do these things. If he can keep me outside of the family, he has control. My brother now is a director and has 160 reports (or so he claims.) So my brother is seeing how I am acting like an older brother. I am certain my parents and my brother embracing Gretchen has also ruined her and her husband's imbalance on me in the family. It was not out of guilt or shame not telling them, but why should they be worried when I am going overseas? What can they do? None of them have traveled out of the country. Also, my sister knows that If I have more children and a girl. Part of her name will be in my grandparents honor which will further help in the recognition of the parents. the problem is, I have gathered much support in the extended family because of the divorce. It shows i am coming from a normal family like everyone else, plus we are all human. for some odd reason, many of the extended family always thought our family was some super Christian family. I never claimed it, nor acknowledged this. I only stated I am just like you. Just trying to live a good life by the good book. It makes the immediate family worried because if I am challenged, the challenge will fail. My sister seeks to disown me because by disowning me, it keeps her "super christian" family intact. In disowning me, she does not have to worry that her children might be influenced by my "sinful" behavior. My sister has a 13 year old son and our close cousin (was her roommate in college) has an 18 to 19 year old son. So Gretchen really bothers my sister a lot. I also think if my sisters husband saw how Gretchen acts towards me. My sister might also be afraid her husband would expect those traits from my sister as well. (of course I only speculate at this point, since a lot of my sister's email was completely judgmental and one-sided in statements. I saw a lot of her husband in the email.)

the email came AFTER talking to my brother and parents. Plus my brother and I talking for a long time the night before. Including my brother wanting us, my family, to come and see his children and talk more AFTER being told ALL about Gretchen. Including discussing his filipino friends with my wife to see if she knew them. Also finding out my brother's wife has a facebook account which I sent a friend request to. Has not been accepted yet, but at least they know I am not trying to hide things. My sister and my parents do not have facebook accounts (which I asked them in the spring of 2011, they stated they do not want to have accounts), so much of the information they seek on me was not discussed. "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot force the horse to drink."

[Hank_ 9,174]