Mich. Residents Receive Letter Calling Christmas Lights 'Pagan'

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Homeowners in Hudsonville, Mich., have been singled out for displaying what an anonymous letter-writer calls "pagan" lights and decorations on their properties.

On Wednesday night, residents of Vintage Drive found a letter attached to their mailboxes suggesting that anyone with Christmas lights or decorations should re-think their beliefs, because Christmas displays honor the "Pagan Sun-God" and do not pertain to the birth of Jesus, according to ABC News affiliate WZZM.

The letters start out on a friendly note, with "Hi Neighbor, you have a nice display of lights." But the self-described "love note" quickly changes tone, explaining how the "pagan tradition" of putting up lights began.

"I laughed because I think it's ridiculous that people would get upset over Christmas lights," said Danette Hoekman, who received the letter.

Besides speaking against holiday lights, the note claimed that the use of mistletoe, wreaths and yule-logs were in no way representative of Christmas.

Those who received the letters said they do not know who wrote them.

"It's a sin to judge other people and to tell people that if they have Christmas lights they are pagans. We're not pagans, we go to church regularly, my kids go to the Christian school," Hoekman said. "I think next year we should put on a huge display!"

http://gma.yahoo.com/mich-residents-receive-letter-calling-christmas-lights-pagan-194443043.html

[HeatDeath 430]

The letter sounds like it's dead right.

Virtually every major custom associated with our "holiday" season originated in non-Christian religious practices surrounding mid-winter fertility festivals.

Moreover, the practice of decorating trees and using them as altars for worship is referred to repeatedly in the Tanakh (Old Testament), and is massively and repeatedly condemned - it's not too much of a stretch to say that the authors of Kings and Chronicles, during the Babylonian Captivity, saw Israel's stubborn adherence to the ritual of the Ashtoreth worship as one of the primary national sins that caused the Babylonian Captivity in the first place!

When you combine this with the media being flooded with movies and TV shows that develop and extend a mythology of Santa Clause that completely ignores Jesus Christ (or, and very rarely at that, pays minimal lip service to Him), but describes at length "The Spirit of Christmas" and "The spirit of family", what you have is nothing less than a new religion, propagated through popular culture, that makes twin idols of highly materialistic gift-purchasing and family gatherings, and is pagan to its very core.

The only reason such an ridiculously materialistic and obviously pagan holiday is tolerated by Christians is that most North American Christians have never actually read the Bible, wouldn't care too much about God's opinions even if they did, and just sleepwalk through their faith, blindly conforming to whatever it is they see most of their neighbours doing.

"Danette Hoekmann" is an uneducated idiot, and I will say that to her face. The call not to judge is NOT a call to never evaluate how what the Bible about something, or how God would feel about it, and how, therefore, we should feel about it. Moreover, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken, and sitting in a church and paying tuition to a Christian school does not make you (or your kids) a Christian any more than sitting in your garage would make you a car.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The letter sounds like it's dead right.

Virtually every major custom associated with our "holiday" season originated in non-Christian religious practices surrounding mid-winter fertility festivals.

Moreover, the practice of decorating trees and using them as altars for worship is referred to repeatedly in the Tanakh (Old Testament), and is massively and repeatedly condemned - it's not too much of a stretch to say that the authors of Kings and Chronicles, during the Babylonian Captivity, saw Israel's stubborn adherence to the ritual of the Ashtoreth worship as one of the primary national sins that caused the Babylonian Captivity in the first place!

When you combine this with the media being flooded with movies and TV shows that develop and extend a mythology of Santa Clause that completely ignores Jesus Christ (or, and very rarely at that, pays minimal lip service to Him), but describes at length "The Spirit of Christmas" and "The spirit of family", what you have is nothing less than a new religion, propagated through popular culture, that makes twin idols of highly materialistic gift-purchasing and family gatherings, and is pagan to its very core.

The only reason such an ridiculously materialistic and obviously pagan holiday is tolerated by Christians is that most North American Christians have never actually read the Bible, wouldn't care too much about God's opinions even if they did, and just sleepwalk through their faith, blindly conforming to whatever it is they see most of their neighbours doing.

"Danette Hoekmann" is an uneducated idiot, and I will say that to her face. The call not to judge is NOT a call to never evaluate how what the Bible about something, or how God would feel about it, and how, therefore, we should feel about it. Moreover, sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken, and sitting in a church and paying tuition to a Christian school does not make you (or your kids) a Christian any more than sitting in your garage would make you a car.

It doesn't matter what its origins might have come from. What matters is the reason why someone puts up lights. To suggest that everyone who puts up lights is a pagan is ridiculously absurd.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Mister Fancypants

[HeatDeath 430]

I'm not saying people who put up lights are pagan, I'm saying that people who put up lights are confused, muddled conformists who don't believe in much of anything and are just sleepwalking through their faith, doing what their neighbours do, because it's "normal".

If they were pagan, they'd be putting up lights for a reason. These people put up lights for the same reason they go to church: because they saw their parents do it when they were younger and because they see their neighbours doing it now. There's no cognitive activity there to dignify with the label "belief", let alone "faith". They are the "lukewarm", to use the description from Revelations, and I fear for them.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

While the origins of most of the modern Christmas paraphernalia come from many pagan traditions, over the years they have evolved into and been adopted by many who have taken them into their hearts as reflective of their Christian Christmas belief. The focus of Christmas for Christians is on the birth of Jesus - a cause for celebration - although even the choice of date is a pagan date - part of the Roman Feast of Saturnalia that is more related to the Winter Solstice than to Christianity. That does not mean that those who today follow these beliefs, having grown up in the understanding that these are part of the Christian Christmas, are any less Christian for following them than are those who do not.

I know that there are Christian sects who do not celebrate Christmas at all because of the 'pagan' attachments, but I don't feel that anyone can honestly say these Christians are better Christian than those who do celebrate what has become known as the Traditional Christmas. It isn't a competition about who is the better Christian - or at least it shouldn't be.

For those of us who are not Christians, Christmas at least celebrates tenets of the Christian faith that are worth celebrating even if you do not follow the belief - love, generosity, caring about others, kindness and family.

It sounds like the sender of that letter would have been happy working for Ebenezer Scrooge.

(I also can't help adding that there is a saying attributed to Jesus about how is one able to remove the mote from his brother's eye when there is a beam in his own, or words to that effect. That might also be something that the letter sender could remember).

Edited December 19, 2011 by Kathryn41

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not." (King James Version).

[Sofiyya 1,687]

For those of us who are not Christians, Christmas at least celebrates tenets of the Christian faith that are worth celebrating even if you do not follow the belief - love, generosity, caring about others, kindness and family.

There's always Festivus for the rest of us

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm not saying people who put up lights are pagan, I'm saying that people who put up lights are confused, muddled conformists who don't believe in much of anything and are just sleepwalking through their faith, doing what their neighbours do, because it's "normal".

If they were pagan, they'd be putting up lights for a reason. These people put up lights for the same reason they go to church: because they saw their parents do it when they were younger and because they see their neighbours doing it now. There's no cognitive activity there to dignify with the label "belief", let alone "faith". They are the "lukewarm", to use the description from Revelations, and I fear for them.

How do you suppose culture and traditions develop and evolve? Sometimes, it could come from the most mundane reasons, but gradually develops into symbolism even if only within ones family.

[Dakine10 5,452]

I'm not saying people who put up lights are pagan, I'm saying that people who put up lights are confused, muddled conformists who don't believe in much of anything and are just sleepwalking through their faith, doing what their neighbours do, because it's "normal".

If they were pagan, they'd be putting up lights for a reason. These people put up lights for the same reason they go to church: because they saw their parents do it when they were younger and because they see their neighbours doing it now. There's no cognitive activity there to dignify with the label "belief", let alone "faith". They are the "lukewarm", to use the description from Revelations, and I fear for them.

The great thing about Christmas is that it's not just one of the biggest religious holidays in the world, it's one of the biggest secular holidays too. Hence people will have different reasons for putting up lights.

A lot of people do it for the same reason I do, because they like to look at shiny sparkly glowy things.

[HeatDeath 430]

If you're an atheist, putting lights up because you like to look at shiny sparkly glowing things is awesome. If you're a pagan, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is awesome. In those situations, people are behaving in perfect accord with their stated worldview.

If you're a Jew, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is terrible.

If you're a Christian, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is also terrible. Claiming to celebrate the birth of your Lord and Savior and doing so in a way that looks, sounds, and feels identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, simply because you like looking at bright and sparkly things, is terrible, and engaging in actions that look and feel identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, merely because your parents did it when you were a kid and your neighbours are doing it now is even more terrible.

The worst thing is claiming to be a Christian, and then holding that the opinions and practices of your neighbours trump the opinions and recommended practices of your God. The only thing more terrible than that is claiming to be Christian and not even knowing or particularly caring about the opinions of your God. That is the most terrible thing of all.

Edited December 19, 2011 by HeatDeath

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If you're an atheist, putting lights up because you like to look at shiny sparkly glowing things is awesome. If you're a pagan, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is awesome. In those situations, people are behaving in perfect accord with their stated worldview.

If you're a Jew, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is terrible.

If you're a Christian, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is also terrible. Claiming to celebrate the birth of your Lord and Savior and doing so in a way that looks, sounds, and feels identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, simply because you like looking at bright and sparkly things, is terrible, and engaging in actions that look and feel identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, merely because your parents did it when you were a kid and your neighbours are doing it now is even more terrible.

The worst thing is claiming to be a Christian, and then holding that the opinions and practices of your neighbours trump the opinions and recommended practices of your God. The only thing more terrible than that is claiming to be Christian and not even knowing or particularly caring about the opinions of your God. That is the most terrible thing of all.

No offense, but that's just absurd. Christ became the "sacrificial lamb," which is a direct reference to a pagan sacrifice, and Jesus specifically instructed his disciples to carry out this tradition in memory of Him (Holy Communion). Throughout the history of Christianity, traditions have continuously evolved. You have a very dogmatic understanding of symbolism and how it is expressed.

[Glyn and Kathy 288]

If you're an atheist, putting lights up because you like to look at shiny sparkly glowing things is awesome. If you're a pagan, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is awesome. In those situations, people are behaving in perfect accord with their stated worldview.

If you're a Jew, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is terrible.

If you're a Christian, putting up lights to illuminate your Ashtoreth for the mid-winter fertility celebration is also terrible. Claiming to celebrate the birth of your Lord and Savior and doing so in a way that looks, sounds, and feels identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, simply because you like looking at bright and sparkly things, is terrible, and engaging in actions that look and feel identical to illuminating an Ashtoreth, merely because your parents did it when you were a kid and your neighbours are doing it now is even more terrible.

The worst thing is claiming to be a Christian, and then holding that the opinions and practices of your neighbours trump the opinions and recommended practices of your God. The only thing more terrible than that is claiming to be Christian and not even knowing or particularly caring about the opinions of your God. That is the most terrible thing of all.

So what is God's opinion of our Christmas Lights?? You seem so knowledgeable

Edited December 19, 2011 by Glyn and Kathy

[CDAgirlMI 51]

Why the hell does everything need to be analyzed?

People really sure do know how to suck the fun out of this time of year.

[HeatDeath 430]

No offense, but that's just absurd. Christ became the "sacrificial lamb," which is a direct reference to a pagan sacrifice, and Jesus specifically instructed his disciples to carry out this tradition in memory of Him (Holy Communion). Throughout the history of Christianity, traditions have continuously evolved. You have a very dogmatic understanding of symbolism and how it is expressed.

Wow. Just... wow. Really?

This is just simply, massively, galactically wrong. Christ's sacrifice is a fulfillment of the Jewish temple sacrifices, which were ordained by God and were not pagan in any way, shape or form. Furthermore, the "evolution of symbolism" has always been in the consistent direction of farther and farther away from what God has told us. Evolution is not a good thing, or even a neutral thing, when it takes you farther and farther from where you're supposed to be.

So what is God's opinion of our Christmas Lights?? You seem so knowledgeable

I think the Jeremiah quote Sofiyya posted above captures quite well how God feels about Christmas lights. God makes it very clear, again and again, through the entire Tanakh (Old Testament), that He has a strong dislike for any rituals or traditions done in imitation or continuation of pagan religious customs.

Now, certain more well-read Christians are going to try to argue that Christmas lights, and other Christmas traditions are ok because Paul wrote that it was ok for Christians to eat meat sacrificed to idols - that it was a judgement call for individual consciences and that Christians should not judge each other about it [on the grounds that pagan idols do not actually have supernatural abilities or characteristics]. There is a subtle confusion here.

Paul is saying that it is ok to eat meat that someone else, a non-Christian has used in a pagan ritual. Paul is NOT saying that it is ok for Christians to sacrifice meat to idols themselves, simply because it's "normal" and all of their neighbours are doing it. It most certainly is not ok. It is very, very NOT ok.

Now don't get me wrong: all Christians sin, and all Christians deserve damnation for their sins, along with the rest of humanity. Christ's free sacrifice for our sins will save us from the eternal consequences of our sins, but it doesn't make the existence of the concept of sin go away. There are still actions we can take that God loves, and actions we can take that God hates. And the Tanakh makes it very clear that acts committed in imitation or continuation of pagan traditions are on the "God hates this" list. And the biblical books of Kings and Chronicles make it very clear that decorating a tree and using it in a winter solstice ritual is right near the top of the list.

Christ's sacrifice doesn't mean there is no such thing as sins - He didn't turn black into white - it only means that God loves us enough to forgive us for them. And that has to be miraculous enough good news for anybody!

Why the hell does everything need to be analyzed?

People really sure do know how to suck the fun out of this time of year.

"Everything needs to be analyzed" because questions about God are not transcendent mysteries that are subject to individual interpretation - they are simple questions of fact. Either there is a God or there is not. Either His Son redeemed your soul on a bloody cross 2000 years ago or He did not. Either His Son rose from the dead or He did not. Either He and His Son have strong opinions about certain social customs being widely practiced by their human followers, or they do not.

If God exists, He is not subject to personal interpretation. He has opinions, and it is vital for us to really try to figure out what those opinions are, and to live according to them to the best of our abilities - all the more so if He suffered greatly to save us from a hideous 2nd death and/or eternal torment, and we claim to love Him for that. If the books that document 5000 years of human contact with Him report that He repeatedly and unambiguously condemns certain practices, and if we claim to grant those books any credibility whatsoever, we very probably should not carry out those practices, even if, <gasp!>, it risks making us look a little weird to our neighbours.

Christians - people who claim to love God and grant strong credibility to the description of Him found in the Bible - should reasonably be expected to read the entire thing a couple of times, and to at least try to do what it says. People whose response to being told truthfully what God has said is "That's absurd, and next year I'm going to do it even more, just to spite the messenger!" are not Christians by any reasonable definition, no matter what building they sit in on Sunday and which organization they write tuition checks to.

Edited December 20, 2011 by HeatDeath

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This is just simply, massively, galactically wrong. Christ's sacrifice is a fulfillment of the Jewish temple sacrifices, which were ordained by God and were not pagan in any way, shape or form. Furthermore, the "evolution of symbolism" has always been in the consistent direction of farther and farther away from what God has told us. Evolution is not a good thing, or even a neutral thing, when it takes you farther and farther from where you're supposed to be.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. During Moses' time, it was permissible for a man to have concubines. The ancient Hebrews also were once polytheists. Animal sacrifice originated from paganism and the ancient Hebrews adopt it. There's a plethora of historical facts out there if you are interested.