Prenuptial Agreement

[vacrimefighter 10]

I know several people from VJs who got married with no PRENUP, and after 5 years of marriage, the relationship ended. Now she is entitled to his retirement fund, bank accounts and ALIMONY for the next five years. For someone who came to the USA with 0 "NOTHING" is gaining $$$ for divorce, while the man is LOSING $$$ How is that fair for someone that did not work and have no children to that man.

So I GUESS NO PRENUPS can cause DIVORCE ALSO

I once had a conversation with some coworkers after one of them was married. He boasted of the terms of the prenup (she had a lawyer, totally legit), specifically that she would vest 5% of the value of the house each year they were married. Imagine, 5 weeks after you are married, this is the topic.

Afterwards, in a side conversation, another guy said to me, referring to the lunch conversation, "if you treat your wife like a second class citizen in her own home, it will never work."

They were divorced 3 years later. Before anybody jumps on me, I am not suggesting that pre-nup caused the divorce, I am merely telling a single story about a single marriage.

[vacrimefighter 10]

Controlling your future assets is just smart business sense. Estate Planning, Wills and Prenuptial agreements and I reading people also do POSTnuptial agreements

Keep in mind, as time goes on you can change any of your agreements and make it less restrictive.

[Krikit 1,165]

Moving from K-1 Process to General Immigration Discussion.

[vacrimefighter 10]

Moving from K-1 Process to General Immigration Discussion.

ANOTHER REASON FOR A CONTRACT AGREEMENT - someone TELL you "WE" moved you without even your input. This topic is all about the K1 Visa... The pros and cons..

[Krikit 1,165]

ANOTHER REASON FOR A CONTRACT AGREEMENT - someone TELL you "WE" moved you without even your input. This topic is all about the K1 Visa... The pros and cons..

Please don't take it personally. The Process forums are related to the visa processes. As a pre-nup doesn't fall into this category we are required to move it. Don't take it to heart.

[Austramerican 83]

No offense vacrimefighter, but you sound a bit defensive, having made up your mind about a prenup based on the bitterness of what befell you in the past. Marriage is about trust, you trusted your past wife and she took advantage of that (based on what you've said), but that is no reason to apply that same mistrust to the woman you are choosing to marry. Love cannot exist without trust. If you have even a shred of doubt that this woman whom you profess love for, whom you want to share the rest of your life with, is a person who will take you for everything you have and deny your children safety and financial security after you are gone, why even bother getting married? Yes, planning for the future in all that, yes, being safe because you never know etc. But then why get married? Why not have a girlfriend, someone to spend time with but that you can keep at arms length. You keep saying you love her, but I just can't understand loving someone and having even a tiny lingering thought that they may be dishonest with you or planning to leave you.

To me a prenup in the 'foreign spouse' type way, suggested by the petitioner, seems IN MY OPINION almost like marital slavery. Picture this, you don't have a lot of money, you have known a man for about a year, who speaks a different language than your native tongue, who has a culture far different from your own. You know him from visits but not the day to day life as roommates, getting to know each others quirks and seeing flaws as they emerge naturally over the course of being in constant close quarters. So you arrive in the US, a completely new and strange place to you, living with a man whom you love but know nothing about how he lives at home, far away from all your family and friends and everything familiar to you. He has everything and wants a prenup, you sign it because your in love and he won't marry without one. Time passes. You find maybe that he wasn't everything you thought. You find that the two of you are incompatible in ways you never thought of, because living together as husband and wife are completely different than the romance of visits. Maybe its not his fault, maybe its just what happens, people discover they aren't right for each other because we are all only human. But then, what if she wants out. Divorce is expensive, and not everyone can afford it. Depending on how a prenup is worded, and if people are savvy enough to weedle in the right conditions, such a thing could leave someone trapped in a loveless marriage. What if the man has children with her, and it doesn't work out? Staying together for the kids and the security is a bad idea, trust me. All it does is create an environment of misery, bitterness, and disappointment of what could have been.

Obviously this scenario is worst case, and prenups aren't totally at fault. But the attitude is. To me if you're going into it with the lingering bitterness from what was in your past, then you need to do some introspection, have some premarital counselling, something that will help you let go. I was never married, but I did have a long term relationship that ended badly. I know what its like to harbor bitter feelings because of an ex, and feel as though its hard to trust anyone new. But after working on myself a lot, and with my current man's careful gentleness and him weathering my flare ups of fear at trusting, I came through, and now I'm ready to get married because that hole was healed with love.

Am I saying don't get a prenup? NO. Like you said, some people it's a good idea. Just make sure its for the right reason and don't make your fiancee pay for what someone else did to you in the past. Make sure there is a mutual respect and that you talk about it with her a lot and fairly, not just 'this is what we're doing and thats that.' Marriage is give and take after all.

As for me, I'm obvs not getting one. I don't own any property and neither does he. This is both our first marriages and we don't have kids. So its totes obvious that we don't 'need' one anyway. But even if I was filthy rich or forsaw myself becoming that way, I wouldn't sign one because basically I don't care about money. We love each other, and I know that even if I was rich, and even if things wen sour one day, we both have a mutual respect for each other and would make sure everything was done fairly. We would both grieve if the marriage died, and wouldn't be spiteful to each other with respect to the love we had, and the possible kids we would have. SO In my OPINION if someone really loves someone and respects them, even if things go sour they wouldn't spitefully seek to ruin them. And if they do, then they never loved them at all. That's why people should do some deep talking and soul searching BEFORE they get married.

(Also, not trying to flame anyone here, I just think this whole sort of discussion rather sad )

Edited December 17, 2011 by Austramerican

[SuperDuper! 230]

Oh yeah, I love the "my-trophy-wife is SO much hotter than all your immigrant spouses. Suck on that."

And I am like, uh, no.

Oh, so you have visited the rub forum, have you?

[Dan & Jenni 457]

ANOTHER REASON FOR A CONTRACT AGREEMENT - someone TELL you "WE" moved you without even your input. This topic is all about the K1 Visa... The pros and cons..

i have just worked you out... your a control freak

[Krikit 1,165]

Here is an educational post from an expert member. Unfortunately, she no longer frequents VJ, but if you do an advanced search you will find many well thought out posts by her. Since it's an old post the quoted areas are no longer active (broken links) so it's a bit of a difficult read later on down that post, but well worth the information discovery.

Notes on PreNups by Diadromous Mermaid

[Leatherneck 693]

There are some serious misconceptions about prenups, and some members really get their panties all bunched up at the thought of having a prenup. A prenup can also protect a woman and provide her with significantly more than she had before she got married in case there is a divorce, especially if the agreement is done with the view of equity and fairness as the basis.

A prenup sure is a lot better alterative than some #######-wipe judge who could careless about you, your families well being, your property or what is fair for your circumstances getting in the middle of your affairs and making a mess that could cause the parties to harbor ill feelings for each other for years to come. After all, the judge is just follow the law, he/she is not concerned with compassion for either party.

Whereas the prenup is the go to manual (in the event of divorce) that was agreed to when cooler heads prevailed, when both parties where rational, reasonable and logical. Long before tempers started to flare and emotions dictated rather than common sense and fairness.

We can thank Barry Bonds for making prenups popular and what a prefect time to have this topic to discuss. Vanessa filed for divorce and now Kobe Bryant will see just how foolish it was to not have a prenup after the California family laws and some judge gets done removing his scalp without the benefit of anesthetics.

For all of you that bring up love and trust or the lack of on the man's part for wanting a prenup, Kobe Bryant entered his marriage blinded with all that love and trust you talk of, now we will see just how much that love and trust was worth to Vanessa... millions I'll say! If it was all about the love, why did she wait until the 10 year mark? Because that is the 'gotcha' year for marriage in California, it means 'mo money,' 'mo money,' 'mo money!'

Edited December 17, 2011 by Leatherneck

[Dan & Jenni 457]

A prenup can also protect a woman and provide her with significantly more than she had before she got married in case there is a divorce, especially if the agreement is done with the view of equity and fairness as the basis.

A prenup sure is a lot better alterative than some #######-wipe judge who could careless about you, your families well being, your property or what is fair for your circumstances getting in the middle of your affairs and making a mess that could cause the parties to harbor ill feelings for each other for years to come. After all, the judge is just follow the law, he/she is not concerned with compassion for either party.

Whereas the prenup is the go to manual (in the event of divorce) that was agreed to when cooler heads prevailed, when both parties where rational, reasonable and logical. Long before tempers started to flare and emotions dictated rather than common sense and fairness.

We can thank Barry Bonds for making prenups popular and what a prefect time to have this topic to discuss. Vanessa filed for divorce and now Kobe Bryant will see just how foolish it was to not have a prenup after the California family laws and some judge gets done removing his scalp without the benefit of anesthetics.

For all of you that bring up love and trust or the lack of on the man's part for wanting a prenup, Kobe Bryant entered his marriage blinded with all that love and trust you talk of, now we will see just how much that love and trust was worth to Vanessa... millions I'll say! If it was all about the love, why did she wait until the 10 year mark? Because that is the 'gotcha' year for marriage in California, it means 'mo money,' 'mo money,' 'mo money!'

while i still dont think that a prenup would ever be for me, i must admit that the first few paragraphs have made me think more about it all and made me understand that maybe they can be a good thing so long as they made out in the interest of fairness to both parties. i dont think though that a persons decision on getting a prenup should be based on what has happened to someone else like Kobe Bryant... whoever he may be lol.

[Leatherneck 693]

while i still dont think that a prenup would ever be for me, i must admit that the first few paragraphs have made me think more about it all and made me understand that maybe they can be a good thing so long as they made out in the interest of fairness to both parties. i dont think though that a persons decision on getting a prenup should be based on what has happened to someone else like Kobe Bryant... whoever he may be lol.

That's called having an open mind to what was contrary to your initial concepts. I'm amazed at how emotional some people can get at the thought of a pre-nup, it's nothing more than an agreed to set of guidelines ( when both parties had level heads) as to how to proceed with caring for minor children, visitation, dividing of assets, reasonable spousal support, etc, etc, etc.

We've all had experience trying to deal with a SO at a time when they were mad, pissed-off, upset, angry and down right unreasonable and foolish, who otherwise would have been the most loving, caring, kind and considerate person.

They can get as angry and as pissed off as they want... the pre-nup just makes sure they abide by the terms agreed to when they were more rational.

Getting a pre-nup should be based on what is best for the person that needs it and what is fair to the other party. What is about to happen to Koby Bryant in family court is an example of why pre-nups are important as a valuable estate planning tool and should be considered for those with assets or will have assets in the future, insurance is what I call it, it ensures both parties honor their word.

[vacrimefighter 10]

All relationships start with LOVE and TRUST. But what happens when LOVE and TRUST leaves the relationship one day.

You should learn from your past. After going through a divorce ten years ago, you would think the courts would make it fair and balanced decision. No one person should profit or be better off in a divorce settlement.

With no contract, with no prenups I learned the courts are always not fair. I left "OUR" home with only a used pick-up truck and clothes on my back. Even when our income was 70% mine and 30% hers through the years.

I had to start my life over and it took me ten years to rebuild my life.

My future bride to be I love and trust that I will not require her to work outside the house. But if one day our relationship ends I have no problem returning her home at my cost to the same standard of living prior to leaving the family home and business in the Philippians.

IN YOUR CASE - you two have no "ASSETS" so a prenup may not be needed. Keep in mind any pension plans, 401K profit sharing, ect are fair game in a divorce.

No offense vacrimefighter, but you sound a bit defensive, having made up your mind about a prenup based on the bitterness of what befell you in the past. Marriage is about trust, you trusted your past wife and she took advantage of that (based on what you've said), but that is no reason to apply that same mistrust to the woman you are choosing to marry. Love cannot exist without trust. If you have even a shred of doubt that this woman whom you profess love for, whom you want to share the rest of your life with, is a person who will take you for everything you have and deny your children safety and financial security after you are gone, why even bother getting married? Yes, planning for the future in all that, yes, being safe because you never know etc. But then why get married? Why not have a girlfriend, someone to spend time with but that you can keep at arms length. You keep saying you love her, but I just can't understand loving someone and having even a tiny lingering thought that they may be dishonest with you or planning to leave you.

To me a prenup in the 'foreign spouse' type way, suggested by the petitioner, seems IN MY OPINION almost like marital slavery. Picture this, you don't have a lot of money, you have known a man for about a year, who speaks a different language than your native tongue, who has a culture far different from your own. You know him from visits but not the day to day life as roommates, getting to know each others quirks and seeing flaws as they emerge naturally over the course of being in constant close quarters. So you arrive in the US, a completely new and strange place to you, living with a man whom you love but know nothing about how he lives at home, far away from all your family and friends and everything familiar to you. He has everything and wants a prenup, you sign it because your in love and he won't marry without one. Time passes. You find maybe that he wasn't everything you thought. You find that the two of you are incompatible in ways you never thought of, because living together as husband and wife are completely different than the romance of visits. Maybe its not his fault, maybe its just what happens, people discover they aren't right for each other because we are all only human. But then, what if she wants out. Divorce is expensive, and not everyone can afford it. Depending on how a prenup is worded, and if people are savvy enough to weedle in the right conditions, such a thing could leave someone trapped in a loveless marriage. What if the man has children with her, and it doesn't work out? Staying together for the kids and the security is a bad idea, trust me. All it does is create an environment of misery, bitterness, and disappointment of what could have been.

Obviously this scenario is worst case, and prenups aren't totally at fault. But the attitude is. To me if you're going into it with the lingering bitterness from what was in your past, then you need to do some introspection, have some premarital counselling, something that will help you let go. I was never married, but I did have a long term relationship that ended badly. I know what its like to harbor bitter feelings because of an ex, and feel as though its hard to trust anyone new. But after working on myself a lot, and with my current man's careful gentleness and him weathering my flare ups of fear at trusting, I came through, and now I'm ready to get married because that hole was healed with love.

Am I saying don't get a prenup? NO. Like you said, some people it's a good idea. Just make sure its for the right reason and don't make your fiancee pay for what someone else did to you in the past. Make sure there is a mutual respect and that you talk about it with her a lot and fairly, not just 'this is what we're doing and thats that.' Marriage is give and take after all.

As for me, I'm obvs not getting one. I don't own any property and neither does he. This is both our first marriages and we don't have kids. So its totes obvious that we don't 'need' one anyway. But even if I was filthy rich or forsaw myself becoming that way, I wouldn't sign one because basically I don't care about money. We love each other, and I know that even if I was rich, and even if things wen sour one day, we both have a mutual respect for each other and would make sure everything was done fairly. We would both grieve if the marriage died, and wouldn't be spiteful to each other with respect to the love we had, and the possible kids we would have. SO In my OPINION if someone really loves someone and respects them, even if things go sour they wouldn't spitefully seek to ruin them. And if they do, then they never loved them at all. That's why people should do some deep talking and soul searching BEFORE they get married.

(Also, not trying to flame anyone here, I just think this whole sort of discussion rather sad )

[vacrimefighter 10]

Also keep in mind, without a prenup and you have children from another relationship. Your ASSETS will be split or taken during this divorce. ASSETS you may have wanted your children to have.

Most things you own prior to your marriage will remain yours.

PENSIONs / Retirement Funds are all fair game in a divorce.

[vacrimefighter 10]

I agree with you !!! Funny the people that have never experienced a divorce and/or a bad business decision can not see the value of a contract agreement. {PRENUP, Estate Planning or WILL} They are letting emotions guide their thought process. "LOVE AND TRUST" They have never seen the evil side when LOVE and TRUST goes out the window.

Without a "WILL" the state can determine how your assets will be divided.

Just like your WILL, a PRENUP can be updated as life goes on.

PEOPLE if you want to ignore the STATISTICS of failed marriages in the United States, look at your on inner circle of family, friends and co-workers. How many are separate, divorced or on their 2nd, 3rd marriage...

There are some serious misconceptions about prenups, and some members really get their panties all bunched up at the thought of having a prenup. A prenup can also protect a woman and provide her with significantly more than she had before she got married in case there is a divorce, especially if the agreement is done with the view of equity and fairness as the basis.

A prenup sure is a lot better alterative than some #######-wipe judge who could careless about you, your families well being, your property or what is fair for your circumstances getting in the middle of your affairs and making a mess that could cause the parties to harbor ill feelings for each other for years to come. After all, the judge is just follow the law, he/she is not concerned with compassion for either party.

Whereas the prenup is the go to manual (in the event of divorce) that was agreed to when cooler heads prevailed, when both parties where rational, reasonable and logical. Long before tempers started to flare and emotions dictated rather than common sense and fairness.

We can thank Barry Bonds for making prenups popular and what a prefect time to have this topic to discuss. Vanessa filed for divorce and now Kobe Bryant will see just how foolish it was to not have a prenup after the California family laws and some judge gets done removing his scalp without the benefit of anesthetics.

For all of you that bring up love and trust or the lack of on the man's part for wanting a prenup, Kobe Bryant entered his marriage blinded with all that love and trust you talk of, now we will see just how much that love and trust was worth to Vanessa... millions I'll say! If it was all about the love, why did she wait until the 10 year mark? Because that is the 'gotcha' year for marriage in California, it means 'mo money,' 'mo money,' 'mo money!'