French mother, 32, set to become first woman to be jailed for wearing banned Islamic veil

[Sofiyya 1,687]

While I support the right of the French to make their own laws, and I don't support the face veil and cannot defend it as an Islamic practice, a jail sentence is a bit much. I know that if she was being jailed in Saudi Arabia for not wearing niqaab, the anti-Muslim element here would be all over it. So, what do they think about this?

French mother, 32, set to become first woman to be jailed for wearing banned Islamic veil

By PETER ALLEN

Last updated at 2:15 PM on 13th Dec

A 32-year-old mother from France is set to become the first woman ever to be sent to prison for wearing an Islamic veil.

Hind Ahmas refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Paris court which has ordered her to spend 15 days learning her civic duties.

She was sentenced by magistrates in Meaux, a Paris suburb, yesterday - after being arrested wearing an outlawed veil outside the Elysee Palace in the French capital on April 11.

That was shortly after Nicolas Sarkozy's government introduced a ban on all forms of Islamic head coverings, including the niqab and the burka.

Ahmas was not allowed into the hearing at Meaux Criminal Court because she refused to remove her face covering.

But prosecutors made it clear to her lawyer, Gilles Devers, that Ahmas now faces two years in prison and a £27,000 fine.

'There is no possibility of me removing the veil,' Ahmas said.

'I'm not taking it off. The judge needs citizenship lessons, not me.'

Ahmas, who has already refused to pay a fine of around £100 for wearing a veil on another occasion, intends to take her case to the European Court of Human Rights.

She has launched a pressure group, Do Not Touch My Constitution, along with Kenza Drider, another veil wearer who wants to run for president in the Spring.

If Ahmas does become the first woman in the world to go to prison for wearing a veil, then it will be seen as a huge propaganda coup for Islamic-rights campaigners.

Mr Sarkozy said the ban on head coverings was not aimed at persecuting Muslims, but merely to make France a more tolerant, inclusive society.

When it was introduced, he said the ban was aimed at stopping criminals – from terrorists to shoplifters – disguising their faces from security staff and CCTV.

But the sight of a young mother being led away to the cells merely because she refuses to take off her veil will cause outrage around the world.

Mr Devers said the veil ban was 'unconstitutional', while senior police officers have told judges that it is unenforceable without persecuting women.

France became the first country in Europe to outlaw the veil, while similar legislation has since been passed in Belgium and Holland.

One has been mooted in Britain by a number of politicians, including Conservative backbenchers, but there are no immediate plans to introduce one.

[Harsh_77 718]

If not Jailed then what should be the punishment for breaking the law?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If not Jailed then what should be the punishment for breaking the law?

I think fines are an option, but would it be ok if the Saudis jailed women for not wearing veils?

[Nina~ 431]

I think fines are an option, but would it be ok if the Saudis jailed women for not wearing veils?

You want the French to send Mutaween to harass and publicly humiliate her instead?

Moreover the article states that she was already fined but refused to pay it and also refused to attend her civic duty class. I think she got off very lightly compared to what she would have faced in Saudi for not covering up.

[Danno 1,228]

Hind Ahmas refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Paris court which has ordered her to spend 15 days learning her civic duties.

Ahmas was not allowed into the hearing at Meaux Criminal Court because she refused to remove her face covering.

'There is no possibility of me removing the veil,' Ahmas said.

'I'm not taking it off.

Ahmas, who has already refused to pay a fine of around £100 for wearing a veil on another occasion

I respect the womans convictions but clearly what we have here is a case of "incompatibility".

She holds no respect for the law, the law maker or Western society.

If she is not a citizen she should be removed from the country.

If she is a citizen she should remove herself or be prepared to pay the price of not complying with the law.

Another example of Diversity failure.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

You want the French to send Mutaween to harass and publicly humiliate her instead?

Moreover the article states that she was already fined but refused to pay it and also refused to attend her civic duty class. I think she got off very lightly compared to what she would have faced in Saudi for not covering up.

The Saudis done do more than this when a woman doesn't cover as they see fit. France is acting like Saudi.

[Harsh_77 718]

I think fines are an option, but would it be ok if the Saudis jailed women for not wearing veils?

Did you read the article or you just posted it based on the headline .....

She was given a very nominal fine, less than parking ticket and was asked to attend some class, she refused to both.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hind Ahmas refuses to accept the legitimacy of a Paris court which has ordered her to spend 15 days learning her civic duties.

Ahmas was not allowed into the hearing at Meaux Criminal Court because she refused to remove her face covering.

'There is no possibility of me removing the veil,' Ahmas said.

'I'm not taking it off.

Ahmas, who has already refused to pay a fine of around £100 for wearing a veil on another occasion

I respect the womans convictions but clearly what we have here is a case of "incompatibility".

She holds no respect for the law, the law maker or Western society.

If she is not a citizen she should be removed from the country.

If she is a citizen she should remove herself or be prepared to pay the price of not complying with the law.

Another example of Diversity failure.

Is it diversity success to disallow Christians or Bibles in Mecca? Or, to require women to cover their heads and to forbid them to drive in the KSA?

Did you read the article or you just posted it based on the headline .....

She was given a very nominal fine, less than parking ticket and was asked to attend some class, she refused to both.

I did see that she was fined. I'm asking if jail is ok for women in France, is it also ok for women in Saudi to be jailed for not covering properly. That was also in the OP.

[Danno 1,228]

Is it diversity success to disallow Christians or Bibles in Mecca? Or, to require women to cover their heads and to forbid them to drive in the KSA?

I did see that she was fined. I'm asking if jail is ok for women in France, is it also ok for women in Saudi to be jailed for not covering properly. That was also in the OP.

_ I have no expectation that Other countries or cultures should "tolerate" anything contrary to what they decide to be acceptable.

_ I know you are well aware that when one does not comply with a court order or judgment (such as paying a fine) another charge can be added or a suspended judgment can be activated.

I imagine she is going to jail for contempt of court not exclusively for the veil charge.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

_ I have no expectation that Other countries or cultures should "tolerate" anything contrary to what they decide to be acceptable.

_ I know you are well aware that when one does not comply with a court order or judgment (such as paying a fine) another charge can be added or a suspended judgment can be activated.

I imagine she is going to jail for contempt of court not exclusively for the veil charge.

As I said before, I believe that France has the right to pass laws and that Muslims are required by our faith to follow the laws of the country we live in. However, I'm curious if it's ok for France to impose dress codes and jail people for failing to follow them in contrast to the criticism Saudis get for doing the same thing.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

As I said before, I believe that France has the right to pass laws and that Muslims are required by our faith to follow the laws of the country we live in. However, I'm curious if it's ok for France to impose dress codes and jail people for failing to follow them in contrast to the criticism Saudis get for doing the same thing.

Deportation would be the right punishment imo.

[Danno 1,228]

As I said before, I believe that France has the right to pass laws and that Muslims are required by our faith to follow the laws of the country we live in. However, I'm curious if it's ok for France to impose dress codes and jail people for failing to follow them in contrast to the criticism Saudis get for doing the same thing.

I'm not really a big fan of these Burka type laws in the west except for certain situations because it does not deal with the fundamental problem and that is importing people into your country which are incompatible and sometimes even hostile to the host culture.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Deportation would be the right punishment imo.

I'm not really a big fan of these Burka type laws in the west except for certain situations because it does not deal with the fundamental problem and that is importing people into your country which are incompatible and sometimes even hostile to the host culture.

Not all Muslims are imports. This woman is French.

Americans are often hostile to other cultures. Should they be banned from buying property or demanding western accommodations when settling in other places?

Edited December 15, 2011 by Sofiyya

[The_Dude 1,142]

I think fines are an option, but would it be ok if the Saudis jailed women for not wearing veils?

I would think fines would be a more equitable solution. However, the article states that she has refused to pay the fines, which is contributing to why she is being jailed. France is a very secular state, if you choose to live there, you should follow the social norms and more importantly laws.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Not all Muslims are imports. This woman is French.

Americans are often hostile to other cultures. Should they be banned from buying property or demanding western accommodations when settling in other places?

Her parents are from Morocco, so they can send her there.