California woman caps home invader

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I win!

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I win!

Not really. But you definitely enjoy fooling yourself.

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/phil.html

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Not really. But you definitely enjoy fooling yourself.

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/phil.html

New name for the Brady Bunch. Their studies have been repeatedly discredited. Glad to see you still refer to them.

Because of the decision of anti-gun people to use discredited information we have the Heller and McDonald decisions, 49 states implementing concealed carry, elimination of the assault weapons ban, elimination of the Brady waiting periods for handgun purchases, elimination of liability lawsuits against firearms manufacturers. A 32% increase in firearms owners and a 13.9% decrease in crime rates

By all means, PLEASE continue this practice.

Who is fooling whom?

Like I said. I won.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[ready4ONE 5,400]

New name for the Brady Bunch. Their studies have been repeatedly discredited. Glad to see you still refer to them.

Because of the decision of anti-gun people to use discredited information we have the Heller and McDonald decisions, 49 states implementing concealed carry, elimination of the assault weapons ban, elimination of the Brady waiting periods for handgun purchases, elimination of liability lawsuits against firearms manufacturers. A 32% increase in firearms owners and a 13.9% decrease in crime rates

By all means, PLEASE continue this practice.

Who is fooling whom?

Like I said. I won.

Ok, one more time for emphasis, YOU Gary, are FOOLING yourself.

Fatal Firearm Injuries in the United States, 1962-1994

Violence Surveillance Summary Series, No. 3

Executive Summary

Death due to injuries from firearms is an increasingly important public health problem. As a group, injuries from firearms were the ninth leading cause of death overall in 1994 and the fourth leading cause of years of potential life lost before age 65 (NCIPC, unpublished data). During the 33-year period covered by this report, the total number of firearm deaths increased by 130%, from 16,720 in 1962 to 38,505 in 1994. If present trends continue, firearm-related injuries could become the leading cause of deaths attributed to injury by the year 2003, surpassing injuries due to motor vehicle crashes.

This report reviews the descriptive epidemiology of firearm-related mortality in the United States from 1962-1994. The patterns of overall firearm-related mortality and of homicide, suicide, unintentional death, deaths occurring during legal intervention, and deaths of undetermined intent are examined by race, sex, and age group.

Throughout the 33-year period, suicide and homicide were responsible for most firearm fatalities; they accounted for 94% of the total in 1994. The fluctuations and overall increase in rates of total firearm-related mortality most closely resembled the pattern of firearm-related homicide. Although suicide rates were high and gradually increasing over time, they varied less than homicide rates. The rates for unintentional death from firearms, deaths during legal intervention, and deaths of undetermined intent were low and generally declined over the study period.

Firearm-related mortality affects all demographic groups, but the greatest increases in recent years were among teens 15-19 years of age, young adults aged 20-24, and older adults aged 75 and older. The rates of overall firearm-related mortality for young people aged 15-24 were higher from 1990-1994 than at any other time during the 33-year period. For those 15-19, increases in firearm-related homicide, suicide, and unintentional injury deaths were especially great. The increase in firearm-related homicide in this age group occurred among all race-sex groups. For America's elderly, rates of suicide by firearm were particularly high, and increases occurred in all race-sex groups except black females, for whom the number of suicides were too small to produce stable rates. The surveillance data in this report are intended to familiarize public health practitioners, researchers, and policymakers with the problem of firearm-related deaths in this country. While these data help characterize the magnitude of the problem and identify groups at risk, there are still gaps in our knowledge. Current surveillance efforts need to be expanded to include information about nonfatal injuries. We also need a greater understanding of the causes of firearm deaths to identify modifiable individual and societal risk factors. Finally, further research is required to plan, develop, and evaluate prevention strategies.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/pub-res/firarmsu.htm

Safer? No...

[some excerpts, full tutorial in the link at bottom.]

The table below indicates mode of death for firearms injuries in the ten countries with the most reported deaths from firearms for children less than 15 years of age. (CDC, 1997)

In one survey, 10% of families admitted to having unlocked and loaded firearms within easy reach of children (Patterson and Smith, 1987). Another study showed that two-thirds of accidental firearms injuries occured in the home, and one-third involved children under 15. 45% were self-inflicted, and 16% occurred when children were playing with guns. (Morrow and Hudson, 1986) A study from 1991-2000 showed that twice as many people died from unintentional firearm injuries in states in the U.S. where firearm owners were more likely to store their firearms loaded. (Miller, et al, 2005)

The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders or assailants may well be misrepresented. A study of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998). Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). In another study, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and suicide in the home (Dahlberg, Ikeda and Kresnow, 2004). Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner. (Rothman et al, 2005). Individuals in possession of a gun at the time of an assault are 4.46 times more likely to be shot in the assault than persons not in possession (Branas et al, 2009). It would appear that, rather than beign used for defense, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families.

http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

I know, I know, too much reality for your fantasy theory, but Gary, you have nothing but wishful thinking to back your assertions 'guns make people safer.'

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok, one more time for emphasis, YOU Gary, are FOOLING yourself.

Safer? No...

I know, I know, too much reality for your fantasy theory, but Gary, you have nothing but wishful thinking to back your assertions 'guns make people safer.'

How is this for fantasy...

49 states have concealed carry. We have the Heller and McDonald decisions. AWB is gone, Brady Act is gone, GCA '68 is gone. No federal gun legislation since 1994. Liability lawsuits against firearms manufacturers ended by legislation. Gun rights are the new "third rail" of politics.

Pretty colored charts Ready4ONE. Who cares?

I win

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok, one more time for emphasis, YOU Gary, are FOOLING yourself.

Safer? No...

I know, I know, too much reality for your fantasy theory, but Gary, you have nothing but wishful thinking to back your assertions 'guns make people safer.'

As I said before, this discredited report is no longer used in the gun argument by intelligent people. Note the bolded statement (YOU bolded it) it compares ONLY self defense related shootings vs other injuries. It does not give any credit to the 2 million + times per year firearms are used for defense without firing a shot. Ths is why this "study" has never had any influence.

WHY would you consider a firearm to ONLY be useful if it is used to shoot someone? The entire basis of the study is flawed.

[106206 15]

I do not need to "try" anything.

If you are not trying to defend yourself using a planned and structured approach, I would fully agree. No one has to do much of anything this is a free country.

We can all defend ourselves with whatever we remember from elementary school scuffles 20-50 years ago and maybe some things they show on TV. Sometimes it works good enough, sometimes not.

And to say we do not have to train because where we live is safe, that's a personal call we all should make for ourselves. But the moment you carry guns for self defense, you are by definition saying you need to prepare for violence. And if you are confronted with violence, you will perform like you train.

Edited December 11, 2011 by caterino

[Boiler 45,535]

She would have been better off with a shotgun, O Gauge or bigger.

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

She would have been better off with a shotgun, O Gauge or bigger.

O gauge?

[lostinblue 1,989]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=8459092

Chilling 911 tapes illustrate woman shooting home invasion suspect

audio link of the call

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

O gauge?

Is he talking shotguns or model trains? Did Lionel make shotguns?

Edited December 11, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Leatherneck 693]

What you say is true. Unfortunately for some it is not "feelings" Most people can undersatnd when facts overrule feelings. Others are purposely trying to cook the books to take away our rights. They will continue to skew studies to their favor and ignore facts (such as the study Ready has posted in the past)

Just this week we have seen emails released where BATF agents were planning to Obama's Fast and Furious government gun running operations to support stricter firearms controls and the Attorney General testified "If our gun laws were stricter none of this would have happened" when it was HIS agents that GAVE the guns to Mexican narco terrorists in VIOLATION of exiting laws.

And they expect to be taken seriously and will say WE do not sound reasonable.

Yeah I saw the AG make that asinine statement.

[Karee 4,190]

Is he talking shotguns or model trains? Did Lionel make shotguns?

[slim 1,525]

You can post all the stories you want where the good guy shoots the bad, however there are at least as many where the opposite is true, and even ones where the good guy is shot with his/her own gun.

You are correct in that a lot of times the bad guy shoots the good guy. But it's important to note that it's already illegal to rape, rob, steal, etc., and typically, bad guys who are shooting people are illegally possessing their firearm in the first place. How do you plan on making that "more" illegal?

Please post stories of bad guys shooting good guys with their own guns. I've rarely, if ever, seen any.

Shut - Suicide. Didn't he, quite literally, have his own safety in his hands? Was it the inanimate metal object or the fact that he had mental problems (obviously, because he was camping at an occupy protest) that you're going to blame for his death. I hope Vermont has no bridges he could've jumped off. Next you'll be telling us bridges don't make people safer.

up - Accident then suicide. Was that because they had guns?

Gary - Drugs were involved. Man got shot in the hand over drugs. Hmmmmm. The gun was probably the reason this happened too.

there - Story from 2010. Robbery by men in a vehicle. Woman was stabbed and shot. So, we should get rid of vehicles knives and guns because obviously, all of those things make people less safe. Lets ban men too. Men make women less safe.

are - Accident. The guy thought it was an airsoft gun. Whoops. Perhaps we should ban airsoft guns too? How about more gun training!

plenty - This story was from 2006. Nice try.

of - Suicide. Again. Someone holds their safety in their own hands and you want to blame the inanimate metal object instead of the person performing the action.

Vermont - Same story as above.

gun-related - A woman was shot in the leg. No charges filed, no follow-up, but, sounds like an accident. Was she less safe because of the gun... or because of the man?

tragedies and incidents. - A man walked in and shot his boss. Then he dropped the gun. Does that make anyone else less safe or just the man he chose to kill? This article alluded to a young woman killed in July although it doesn't detail how she was murdered. It was drug-related though. Do I see a trend here?

Basically, you posted 10 links to articles from the past five years. Two per year if you average them out. They included 3 suicides, two accidental deaths, two homicides, two assaults and an accident.

Compare and contast that to what's happened on Vermont's waterways. "Between 1997 and 2007, the Vermont Office of the Chief Medical Examiner reported 106 accidents in Vermont that resulted in drowning deaths. About half of all drownings occur in natural water settings such as lakes, rivers, or oceans." Water more dangerous than guns.

Perhpas Vermont should ban water. Obviously water makes people less safe than guns.

http://www.vpc.org/nrainfo/phil.html

Since you like links from stupid websites that have nothing to do with actual issues, try this one on for size. Swimming pools are more dangerous than guns.

floaties over firearms

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Slim, in your and Gary's zeal to sound like macho Chuck Norris types, you both continue to argue points I have not made. Frankly it makes you both look a bit silly.