F-1 Visa

[Georgevr 0]

Hi.

Okay, I'll start off by giving you some background. I'm from South Africa, and for the last 2 (American)summers, I've been working in the US at an *cough* carnival on an H2B visa. Before I went to the US, I was studying for a Bachelors of Psychology, but after 3 semesters I realized it just didn't coincide with what I wanted out to do with my life. So after my first summer at the carnival (this was in 2010), I returned home and started looking into studying in the US. I went to a information session presented at the consulate, did an enormous amount of research, wrote my TOEFL (on which I scared pretty high, not that I'm bragging) and my ACT's. I returned to the US again on an H2B visa so I could go check out potential Colleges and Universities and to save up some extra spending money for my studying endeavor. I applied to a few, got accepted for Associates of Arts : Mass Communication (I am planning on transferring to a University to finish my bachelors later), and had all my paperwork sent and waiting for me in South Africa. I finished working on 31 October, and I got back home on the 3rd.

The Monday after I got home, I went to the Consulate, and it didn't turn out well. The VO asked me some of the regular questions, and then he asked whether I had studied before. I answered yes, and he then proceeded to check my passport for any past visas, and he saw that I had only returned a week earlier. So I was denied under 214(b), and he explained that it was because he thought both my intention for entering the US wasn't truthful, and that I don't have strong enough ties to South Africa. I do have to mention that I did not present any paperwork, as he did not ask for it.

Obviously angry, and frustrated, I talked to an Immigration lawyer who made it clear that it is very hard to establish ties for a student of my age. He gave me quite a lot of advice regarding presentation of paperwork, and what kind of documents I should present and in which manner I should speak to the VO.

So I went back 10 days later, with all of my paperwork. The VO asked me what has changed, and I told him that I don't think I could make my case all that clear without presenting to them some documents. Well, I still got denied, but at least this time it was only because of my "ties" to South Africa. Now he said, I should probably get a job, or improve family ties. I asked him, "what do you mean improve family ties?", and he said, "well we don't exactly have a list for it".

My question to you is, how do they expect a student to strengthen those 2 things, when they're planning on leaving their home country for 2-4 years.

The way I understand it is, they want me to get a job here, to show ties.

A) It will be an entry-level job. Why would I return to said job after attaining in a degree in a completely different field.

B) Why would a company ask me back for an entry-level job after being away for 2-4 years

C) The whole point on of going to the US is to get trained for a specific career.

The family ties part I don't understand at all... I mean, all of my relatives (immediate and extended) that I know of live in South Africa, so I'm sure that can't be it. How do you prove your relatives are here? Only other way I can think of is that they want me to start a family? To me, that would be ridiculous considering I'm going there to study, and would have to support an extra 2 dependents on no income. The family ties to me just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I have proved that I do have a house to stay in (both now, and after completion of my studies), a car that I own, my own bank account, that I'm my mothers sole beneficiary to her will etc.

Any advice or opinions on what exactly I should do would be much appreciated. PS : the immigration lawyer told me to go back, and keep trying, so advice regarding to that would be preferred.

Thaaaaaaaanks.

[NancyNguyen 1,657]

Well your reasons are understandable but you should try to reason with the IO. And yes, to prove strong tie with your country is really difficult sometime. Don't try to come back for a visa any soon, it would make the situation worse.

[Georgevr 0]

Next time I will definitely reason with the VO a bit more, and explain to him how these ties are absurd to expect from a student.

About the not going back again soon... Well I'm enrolled for the Spring term, orientation starts 9 January 2012 to be precise, so I don't really have any other choice.

[Noah Lot 391]

Next time I will definitely reason with the VO a bit more, and explain to him how these ties are absurd to expect from a student.

About the not going back again soon... Well I'm enrolled for the Spring term, orientation starts 9 January 2012 to be precise, so I don't really have any other choice.

That 'strategy' will backfire instantly. Do you think that VOs have less experience adjudicating visas than you? Your track record strongly suggests that returning to S Africa to live and work is not likely...you've worked a couple of times on an H2B program, and then instead of returning to your country to work, now you want to study (I guess there are no schools in S Africa?) and once again head back to the US....

yea...try 'reasoning' with the VO...see if you miraculously change U.S. law in 5 minutes.

[Georgevr 0]

No, however, I do believe they do have some common sense.

I'm sorry, but I do not see what you're trying to infer by stating "Your track record strongly suggests that returning to S Africa to live and work is not likely".

I did not enter the USA previously on false pretenses, I did not overstay my visa, I did not break the law. I worked there for 2 years, and it was a means as to obtaining some of the finances, and/or information and accessibility to pursue my studies in the US.

Let's say you referred to my previous studying experience. How many students across the world change their major whilst studying, or take an hiatus and later return to completing school?

I have every intention of returning to South Africa. I want to go there, study, do some travelling in my free-time, and come back to my home-country where my family, friends, culture and pretty much everything else is.

Something I forgot to add in my original post was that I do have a letter of future employment, for when I complete my studies.

Funny thing, I was actually asking for advice, and the attacking tone of your post, albeit relevant, still does not really satisfy the questions I asked.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Georgevr

[Boiler 45,493]

I am guessing you are a mature student sic, and it does sound that you interest is more in moving to the US that going to college.

People seem to have much more success when it is a logical progression of their past education and they are going to a proper Uni.

Why did you pick this particular course and this particular college?

[Georgevr 0]

I just turned 23. So I'm sure you can see why I would want to pursue this as soon as possible, since I'm not getting any younger.

I'll give you some background on South Africa, and please, do not take this the wrong way, I.E Racist, Bigot etc.

In South Africa, for pretty much every professional career you're either going to need a degree in your respective field of study. That is simply not enough, because in part, they have the Black Economic Empowerment program, which in short (if you don't want to read the wiki) will basically let the employer consider an African person before any other person of any ethnicity. Being a person of a European descent (Aka. White), and from keeping my ear to the ground, I've learned that it would make life a hell of a lot easier by attaining some education from abroad.

On to why, where, what. I chose Mass Communication mostly because it encompasses a wide variety of study. From my Psychology days I had really developed the passion for writing, as well as media (video/picture editing). So basically, journalism, public relations, and television... I would love to start a career in any of those respective fields, and coincidentally, they are all paired in this specific course.

My reasons for choosing this specific college :

- It suits me financially. I do want to finish a bachelors, so doing coursework at a college, and then transferring at a later stage will most definitely not hurt my or my mothers pocket half as much.

- This one is quite obvious. They offer the course I'm looking to pursue.

- Its well situated near a big city, has affordable accommodation near it, and I am acquainted with the location, so it won't be a completely traumatizing experience.

- Their international student office is simply amazing. The most helpful, supporting, and genuinely caring people out of all of the colleges I applied to.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Georgevr

[Noah Lot 391]

No, however, I do believe they do have some common sense.

I'm sorry, but I do not see what you're trying to infer by stating "Your track record strongly suggests that returning to S Africa to live and work is not likely".

I did not enter the USA previously on false pretenses, I did not overstay my visa, I did not break the law. I worked there for 2 years, and it was a means as to obtaining some of the finances, and/or information and accessibility to pursue my studies in the US.

Let's say you referred to my previous studying experience. How many students across the world change their major whilst studying, or take an hiatus and later return to completing school?

I have every intention of returning to South Africa. I want to go there, study, do some travelling in my free-time, and come back to my home-country where my family, friends, culture and pretty much everything else is.

Something I forgot to add in my original post was that I do have a letter of future employment, for when I complete my studies.

Funny thing, I was actually asking for advice, and the attacking tone of your post, albeit relevant, still does not really satisfy the questions I asked.

And my advice was ...please...try to 'reason' with a VO...explain to him or her how our laws should be X or Y...

and gosh...a letter from an employer about some nebulous job in the future...wow...now that is truly a convincing piece of documentation. Remind us all again...what are the penalties in S Africa if either you aren't back to take said job or if said job winds up being given to someone else? No penalty, I imagine...which tells you how valuable that piece of paper will be.

While according to your postings, you have not overstayed/violated the H2B visas, nonetheless, you don't appear to be motivated to stay put and begin a career in your own country; hence the denials.

[Georgevr 0]

Edit by way of post :

I believe in some capacity this is a logical progression from my previous study endeavor. There will be some aspects intertwined, and I'll probably would have done some of the coursework I'm going to be doing now. Its not exactly day and night in my opinion.

[Georgevr 0]

@NOAH LOT : About the letter, no, it does not hold a penalty of any sort. But it does offer incentive. That's all.

Please read my post directed at Boiler, and I'm sure that would answer to you why I'm pursuing education abroad, and not just pursuing a career in South Africa. By the way, if I had to pursue a career now, I would have to settle for an entry-level job. That seems smart.

[Boiler 45,493]

Cheaper and easier option would be to do the Community College bit in S Africa and then do the Uni bit in USA, or wherever.

[Noah Lot 391]

@NOAH LOT : About the letter, no, it does not hold a penalty of any sort. But it does offer incentive. That's all.

Please read my post directed at Boiler, and I'm sure that would answer to you why I'm pursuing education abroad, and not just pursuing a career in South Africa. By the way, if I had to pursue a career now, I would have to settle for an entry-level job. That seems smart.

as you will likely discover, letters offering a job in the future hold no value because such a letter can be written by anyone and is not enforceable.

The picture as the VO is likely seeing it is this (IMHO);

at 23, you obviously dropped out of school sometime in the past

to work for two years in some job classified as 'unskilled' (H2b)

are attempting another lengthy trip back to the US instead of pursuing your education/vocation in S Africa

What they are NOT seeing is someone who worked abroad for a while and is now about to resettle in their own country.

By any chance is this community college a short distance away from the place in which you were working on the H2b?

Edited December 8, 2011 by Noah Lot

[Georgevr 0]

There's no such option.

Either full University here, which is 3 years, and still puts me in the same dilemma.

or

What I'm planning on doing now.

I did not mean financially suitable in general, I meant financially suitable should I study in the US.

Sorry, I should have been more clear about that.

[Georgevr 0]

@ NOAHLOT :

I do see your point. That's why I came here asking for advice, since that was probably the reasons for me previous denial, and I would like to change that.

I did drop out, not because of bad results, but because I had no interest in pursuing a career in Psychology once I was done. I was "forced" into studying, and Psychology was a quick pick that in the end I just couldn't go through with. I decided I want to see the world before I commit to something such as a 4 year studying endeavor, and I probably should have done this my first year out of High School. So basically the H2B visa helped getting my head straight and giving me the option of moving out of my comfort zone.

The colleges I applied to are all in the same state that I worked. Since I worked at a carnival, we were never in one spot, and always moved throughout the state, so on my off-days, if I had a college that interested me nearby, I would go there and talk to the international student department. I went to a few Universities as well, albeit very tempting, the tuition cost for 4 consecutive years were a bit steep. I did figure that applying to colleges in the same state would make the whole procedure go down smoother, and it did.

[Noah Lot 391]

@ NOAHLOT :

I do see your point. That's why I came here asking for advice, since that was probably the reasons for me previous denial, and I would like to change that.

I did drop out, not because of bad results, but because I had no interest in pursuing a career in Psychology once I was done. I was "forced" into studying, and Psychology was a quick pick that in the end I just couldn't go through with. I decided I want to see the world before I commit to something such as a 4 year studying endeavor, and I probably should have done this my first year out of High School. So basically the H2B visa helped getting my head straight and giving me the option of moving out of my comfort zone.

The colleges I applied to are all in the same state that I worked. Since I worked at a carnival, we were never in one spot, and always moved throughout the state, so on my off-days, if I had a college that interested me nearby, I would go there and talk to the international student department. I went to a few Universities as well, albeit very tempting, the tuition cost for 4 consecutive years were a bit steep. I did figure that applying to colleges in the same state would make the whole procedure go down smoother, and it did.

You must have met quite a cast of characters working in the carnival!