Legitimate Relationship = $$$

[damulag 26]

Very good point...I am in management for my job so one of my duties is hiring people. Typically, when I conduct interview screenings, I don't have much time. I'm between meetings and I really only have 3-5 minutes. I ask about their previous experience, look at their resume, listen to how they answer the questions, and then go with my gut to make a decision. I know not everyone works that way but I have never been wrong when I go with my first instinct. Even when there are multiple supervisors interviewing/screening the same person, if I'm out-voted...I still end up right as that person ends up not being a good employee or ends up leaving the company fairly quickly after starting their job.

I know the CO has a very hard job but the USCIS spends 4+ months with our paperwork and then they approve it. You would think they would do some research and actually review some of the documentation. You would think the petition approval would mean something more...

I love hearing everyone's opinions and feedback...Keep them coming!

But it sits in a pile for 3 months 30 days 23 hours and 45 minutes.

[lalouse 1]

I hear you.. and feel exactly the same way.

Even if you have spent all the money, even that is not enough. I used to visit my fiance twice a year, the most recent being for 2 months this past summer. Before that I visited for 1 month on the new year, and the summer before that and the new year before that .. and have been doing this for years. Even with all that spending, with a formal engagement party with family members and pictures, with endless phone bills and long emails, it was not enough. Because of my fiance's religion --- or actually, it's not really because of his religion, because the interviewer never asks him if he is religious, or whether he believes certain things.. it seems more to be that he has a Muslim name and that is problematic. Because of that, we have been sitting in the never ending AP for 6months now.

I was hoping he would have by the time I moved to another city and started a new job in September.

Then I hoped he would be here by Halloween in October. Nope.

Then my family and I were very sad that he could not join us for Thanksgiving in November. No.

Now the holiday season and new year are approaching and there is no end in sight.

I really don't want to enter 2012 without him, but what can I do? His parents gave him a Muslim name 25 years ago, so now we have to wait endlessly.

I'm just very unhappy right now. and yes, we are all at the discretion of the US government.

I don't mean to make you unhappy. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you will quickly be rejoined with your loved one.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Don't blame the cost or the Red Flags on USCIS or DOS....

First the 4 - 6 months wait for approval is just for the Petition not the Visa. During that time Background Checks are run with Federal Law Enforcement Agencies on the Petitioner and Beneficiary. There is really no point in someone eve looking at the petition until the background checks are complete as those results can kill the petition immediately.

Now on to the Embassy interview, they're knowledgeable of what are cultural norms for each country and look for relationships that fit within those parameters. This is why the Red Flags vary from country to country. The same goes for religion. Some religions are less tolerant of mixed religion marriages and even some cultures are even if the religion itself is tolerant.

[Bobby+Umit 161]

Why is religion such a red flag when one of my freedoms as a USC is freedom of religion? Can I not love someone from another religion? Even two USCs from different states could have such different beliefs and different cultures it would be comparable to being from a different country.

Because some countries have very strict rules when mixing religions, that have nothing to do with your being an USC. So, if your finance'e is from a country like that, your situation may trigger doubts on it being legitimate. They do take in the local customs, not what they do in the US.

Why don't they read some of the e-mails or text messages that go back and forth between the couple? You can't make up that type of conversation between 2 people in love. Why don't they care about the details?

Everything you type could be faked. Actual trips to see each other shows more than emails would. However, it's in my experience that most CO's look at the whole ball of wax - some people may have to deliver more proof (example, from high fraud countries) than others.

As I digress, I am at the discretion of the US government and will follow this process if I want to have a future with my fiance in the US. I will provide as much evidence as possible that they deem valid, but I can only hope and pray that my fiance and I have a smooth journey and that we can get married in August 2012. I can only dream that this will be my last holiday season alone and that next year, we will be able to celebrate our first Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's together as husband and wife.

Praying will not help. Hoping will not help. Do, or do not, there is no try.

Following the actual instructions, and providing the necessary evidence will allow you to smoothly handle the immigration journey. If you have a weak case, then you may have issues - as with anything. So build a strong case, show strong ties to each other, and you will be together sooner than later.

[o0blue/green0o 0]

My wife is a Philippines national. She now lives here in the US with me. I did all the paperwork myself with no lawyers. I filed all the proof and I did everything. They are not looking for expensive proof. They want to see that you have met in person AT LEAST ONCE (I went to the Philippines 4 times before I attempted to bring her here..we were married on my 3rd trip there). The big thing is to show that you have a MIXING/UNITING of finances. If your husband is sending you spousal support of some kind via bank records or even western union (western union is an expensive way to do it). If you show that he is sending the support on a routine basis and enough to be considered able to help sustain you then that will satisfy them. It can also go the other way if you are helping support your husband. Make sure you save emails (even messenger chats) 1 or 2 a week. Send copies of those. Make sure you take and save and send copies of all pics together (lovey dovey of course). Save and copy/send any receipts for trips together or items bought for each other. All of this is proof of a relationship. Comingling/mixing/uniting of funds/finances is paramount here and is even a separate condition alone AS WELL AS a part of proof of relationship. I hope I was a help to you.

[o0blue/green0o 0]

[/b]

Sage advice friend..especially with that last one..I had the same attitude when bringing my wife here..I didn't worry at all.. I was going to do it..period and they was not going to stop me...and we ensured we had a strong case, but we truly are in love and our relationship was/is real..I say this 2 children later (2 years old and 3 weeks old).

[Dave and Kinnari 31]

It's based upon local customs. They can judge and scrutinize anything they want when it's out of the societal norm. I know it sucks, but it's the battle you face.

All the evidence is fine and dandy that you plan to send the biggest would be if you were present for the interview, even if they don't allow you in. This trumps all other forms of evidence that you can provide via paper.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Dave and Kinnari

[Lisa and Ian 7]

As I sit and wait for my NOA2, I can't help but think about the K-1 process. I've been on VJ for several months now and I've read numerous success stories but also numerous horror stories. I know I need to be informed of the worst case scenarios to be prepared but I can't help in worrying that for some reason my legitimate relationship may not be approved because the country my fiance is from is high-fraud and the CO did not like the way he said "the".

As I've read different journeys I've realized the proof of the relationship is not necessarily in the "pudding". I feel the CO wants to see how much money are you willing to spend to validate and prove you have a legitimate relationship. Have you gone to see each other several times spending thousands of dollars in airfare, hotels, etc? Have you spent hundreds of dollars sending letters or packages to your fiance across international waters (are we not in the 21st century?!?) when you could just send an e-mail or wait to deliver the package and gift when you actually visit them?

Does quality not mean more than quantity? Why would $$ be an indicator of authenticity? If someone was trying to "buy" their way into the US, don't you think it would be via $$ (bribes)?

Why is religion such a red flag when one of my freedoms as a USC is freedom of religion? Can I not love someone from another religion? Even two USCs from different states could have such different beliefs and different cultures it would be comparable to being from a different country.

Why don't they read some of the e-mails or text messages that go back and forth between the couple? You can't make up that type of conversation between 2 people in love. Why don't they care about the details?

As I digress, I am at the discretion of the US government and will follow this process if I want to have a future with my fiance in the US. I will provide as much evidence as possible that they deem valid, but I can only hope and pray that my fiance and I have a smooth journey and that we can get married in August 2012. I can only dream that this will be my last holiday season alone and that next year, we will be able to celebrate our first Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's together as husband and wife.

I think the issue will always be that sometimes there are fraudulent marriages, and, as an American, I feel better knowing people's intent (and criminal history) is being scrutinized before they enter the country. Also, they don't require massive amounts to be spent. All you have to do is see each other once in the last two years and show proof of a continuing relationship. I don't think this is unreasonable. My husband and I used Skype everyday, which was relatively free (except for the expense of our Internet connections), and sent email. Not everyone has that luxury, of course, but also I think the high end of the expense is paying all the fees to legally live in America... hence the attempted illegal border crossings.

JMO.

The immigration process needs work, doesn't it? Good luck with your process. I hope it is trouble-free.

[TimeTravel 78]

Truly understand that.

It is better to gather the as much as doc that you may need. Hope and pray for you guys, everything goes fine.

[brian_n_phuong 193]

Don't blame the cost or the Red Flags on USCIS or DOS....

First the 4 - 6 months wait for approval is just for the Petition not the Visa. During that time Background Checks are run with Federal Law Enforcement Agencies on the Petitioner and Beneficiary. There is really no point in someone eve looking at the petition until the background checks are complete as those results can kill the petition immediately.

Now on to the Embassy interview, they're knowledgeable of what are cultural norms for each country and look for relationships that fit within those parameters. This is why the Red Flags vary from country to country. The same goes for religion. Some religions are less tolerant of mixed religion marriages and even some cultures are even if the religion itself is tolerant.

Well Said !!

For those that think the process is too slow, try the same process in ANOTHER country. Most of the time it's not even possible because of protectionist polices that prevent immigration. Most of the Expats I know live under a constant threat of deportation, and are forced to leave and re-enter the country every three months just to maintain the status quo. Just to obtain my driver's license in Viet Nam required several months of red tape, waiting in endless lines, and finally adding a 'contribution' to the Motor Vehicle Departments "Coffee Fund".

The reason the delay in beneficiary criminal background checks is because of the antiquated records systems still in use in many countries. Many of those old systems require manual intervention with a human actually sifting through logbooks and arrest records.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Brian_N_Phuong

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

It is easy for Americans to severely underestimate the importance of religion in other parts of the world. To most of us, it's obvious that the religion is a private matter or not a thing to consider at all. I think it is hard for many Americans to imagine something different. However, in many parts of the world, religion is a daily, overt, group ethos that informs most parts of every day life, and especially family matters. Foreign scammers know that they can just say "I love you and I don't care about religion!" and that will ring true with a USC, because that is what we believe. But it's often not what they believe. Some of these scammers don't even consider a marriage in the US a "real marriage" and they are willing to get this false marriage to serve other ends.

So yes, you can fall in love with who you like. The issue the CO is trying to determine the likelihood of someone's fiance being committed to someone from a different religion. There are a lot of inter-religious international couples that get visas, but you should understand why it is a thing a CO should consider. It's to protect YOU. Sometimes, it just doesn't make sense. Sometimes, it makes perfect sense.

[Rufus2012 175]

99.2% of fiance visas last year were approved (96 on the first time through, the remaining 3.2 on appeal). While there are some horror stories, and there are some troublesome consolates, it almost always works. You are dealing with a faceless and inefficient bureaucracy, but not a malicious one. There are undoubtedly a-holes in the mix, but don't let reading horror stories here skew your impressions about the process as applied to the entire population. Evidence here is anecdotal. Most K1 applicants do not have accounts here, and most people for whom the process is proceeding normally and without problems do not post here, they may not even update their timelines.

That old phrase ... "Money makes the world go round"

America is very much a capitalist country.

And that's a good thing.

[mr and mrs 187]

You are dealing with a faceless and inefficient bureaucracy, but not a malicious one.

very well put. very, very true.

[at long last 58]

200 pictures + documents + + +

That will take three men and a small boy to just carry it to someones desk...

Then the extra time to sort through it ALL... may be why there are June filers still waiting... stuck behind large files

OMG.. I have not heard many others use that expression 3 men and a boy. I learned it from my father.. too funny...

Terri

[Lynn n Sam 57]

As I sit and wait for my NOA2, I can't help but think about the K-1 process. I've been on VJ for several months now and I've read numerous success stories but also numerous horror stories. I know I need to be informed of the worst case scenarios to be prepared but I can't help in worrying that for some reason my legitimate relationship may not be approved because the country my fiance is from is high-fraud and the CO did not like the way he said "the".

As I've read different journeys I've realized the proof of the relationship is not necessarily in the "pudding". I feel the CO wants to see how much money are you willing to spend to validate and prove you have a legitimate relationship. Have you gone to see each other several times spending thousands of dollars in airfare, hotels, etc? Have you spent hundreds of dollars sending letters or packages to your fiance across international waters (are we not in the 21st century?!?) when you could just send an e-mail or wait to deliver the package and gift when you actually visit them?

Does quality not mean more than quantity? Why would $$$ be an indicator of authenticity? If someone was trying to "buy" their way into the US, don't you think it would be via $$$ (bribes)?

Why is religion such a red flag when one of my freedoms as a USC is freedom of religion? Can I not love someone from another religion? Even two USCs from different states could have such different beliefs and different cultures it would be comparable to being from a different country.

Why don't they read some of the e-mails or text messages that go back and forth between the couple? You can't make up that type of conversation between 2 people in love. Why don't they care about the details?

As I digress, I am at the discretion of the US government and will follow this process if I want to have a future with my fiance in the US. I will provide as much evidence as possible that they deem valid, but I can only hope and pray that my fiance and I have a smooth journey and that we can get married in August 2012. I can only dream that this will be my last holiday season alone and that next year, we will be able to celebrate our first Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's together as husband and wife.

I totally agree with you and I have often thought the same and wondered about the fairness of it all. Don't get me wrong, I understand the process and why it's in place - but I don't necessarily agree with all of the policies and "pre-conceived" (for lack of a better term) thoughts that go into developing some of these policies. The thing that I can't get out of my head that really irritates me is the "culturally normal" way of thinking. Again, don't get me wrong - I get it! If I were choosing to immigrate to India perhaps I could understand that thinking a little better, but it's America. American's roots stem back from other countries all over the world and these roots have intertwined over the years to form new roots - hence the term of America being the "melting pot". More and more families have become interracial, of different religions, races and backgrounds and they are thriving well. I just wish the CO's, the US Govt and anyone else that has tunnel vision to open their eyes and see that everyone is different and we don't all fit into the cookie cutter "culturally normal" societies. Why else would most legitimate and bona fide relationships go through this torture of the immigration process to be with each other? I understand there are the "green card wanna-be's" but no one, not even the highly trained CO's can know absolutely without a doubt that each relationship is true or not. We just want a chance at a normal life together here in the U.S. - is that too much to ask?

And another thing I don't get; people telling me that we would have a better chance if I go to India, marry there and then live there for 6 months, a year and then go through the CR-1. How does a USC do that? What would I do with my job of 24 years? They certainly wouldn't hold my position for me. What do I do with my home, my furniture, car, etc? What about all the bills I have to pay? How am I paying for those not knowing if I could make enough in another country to stay afloat? I would really like to know the answers to those questions too. Sorry to be so verbose and I appreciate the forum's patience!