Married on tourist visa without intent to stay..

[Teedra 0]

Hi all!

I have read a few posts and although my situation is unique, have managed to gather a few things in figuring out the best direction for my bf and I. I am a California resident, and my bf is a French citizen. He is also a professional athlete, which complicates matters far as the timeline necessary. He spent many years in the US due to his college career (we met the last year he was in the states). We have been in an official relationship for a little over a year now and travel to see each other every 2-3 months. We are talking marriage but after research I am a tad intimidated by the process.

I was considering the K-1 visa, but the uncertainty of the timeline deters me. We would like to get married in the US, and have a celebration in France for his family. Also, I figured people wanting the K-1 visa are applying in hopes of staying in the US. This does not apply to my bf because he can only travel during off season (summer) and has to leave again for training camp and the season. The whole idea of him not being able to leave the US and waiting, just wouldn't work. Furthermore, I am a big planner and would like to send out invitations in advance and have a nice big wedding and celebration (can't do this with K-1). I am saying all this to say, it is inevitable that he would be leaving before the 90 days are up on his tourist visa.

So then I thought..what if we plan to get married in the summer (forecast a year from now) and we get married on his tourist visa and he would return to France before the visa expires. Then we would have to apply for CR1, if I am correct? I was just worried about the I-30 form process because I am unsure if I will stay in California for a little, or accompany him (I hear the process for a visa once married to a France citizen is a smooth process). Also, if I stayed here it would be hard to show some of the requirements listed for a "bonafide relationship" as we can't even get a joint bank account because he is not a US resident, let alone have joint property. After his playing career, there is every intent to live in the US and I wanted to start the process as early as possible.

I hope I did not confuse you all, but any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Lainie B 465]

Since he's French he can come to the US under the visa waiver program for up to 90 days to get married - much easier than getting a tourist visa. He would need to show proof that he will return to France when he enters the US. I would think that showing proof that you intend to return to France with him would also help.

He can have a US bank account without being a resident.

[Teedra 0]

Since he's French he can come to the US under the visa waiver program for up to 90 days to get married - much easier than getting a tourist visa. He would need to show proof that he will return to France when he enters the US. I would think that showing proof that you intend to return to France with him would also help.

He can have a US bank account without being a resident.

Thank you Lainie B. I think I meant visa waiver, instead of tourist visa. I now know the correct terminology to use If you have any suggestions about what banks allow this, please let me know. I have tried to contact HSBC and Citibank about a joint bank account between an American and French citizen, and they generally want a US mailing address and a green card to prove permanent residency (which he doesn't have). I may not go back to France with him, because I have to finish grad school and move up the career ladder a bit in the US before considering a move I am hoping that his contract with whatever team he signs with will be enough proof. Thanks for your help!

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

You can get married on the visa waiver and he can continue to visit you on the waiver while he lives in France.

It sounds like he won't be wanting to live in the USA for several years yet, right? If so, he just continues using the visa waiver for vacations to the USA with you. Once you two decide it is time to move to the USA permanently, you will petition him via the I-130 form and he will get a IR-1 visa (assuming you are married longer than 2 years by then), which leads to an automatic 10 year greencard upon entry to the USA. Start the paperwork about 9 months before you are ready to move.

[Teedra 0]

You can get married on the visa waiver and he can continue to visit you on the waiver while he lives in France.

It sounds like he won't be wanting to live in the USA for several years yet, right? If so, he just continues using the visa waiver for vacations to the USA with you. Once you two decide it is time to move to the USA permanently, you will petition him via the I-130 form and he will get a IR-1 visa (assuming you are married longer than 2 years by then), which leads to an automatic 10 year greencard upon entry to the USA. Start the paperwork about 9 months before you are ready to move.

Thank you very much! I think waiting the two years is the route to go since it will take time for a permanent move. I was just worried about not meeting the requirements of financial support, but I guess by that time everything will fall into place.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Thank you Lainie B. I think I meant visa waiver, instead of tourist visa. I now know the correct terminology to use If you have any suggestions about what banks allow this, please let me know. I have tried to contact HSBC and Citibank about a joint bank account between an American and French citizen, and they generally want a US mailing address and a green card to prove permanent residency (which he doesn't have). I may not go back to France with him, because I have to finish grad school and move up the career ladder a bit in the US before considering a move I am hoping that his contract with whatever team he signs with will be enough proof. Thanks for your help!

BoA (in Texas at least) enrolled my wife (before we were married on a K-1) on a joint account with me just on her passport, European as well, but not French. I know other banks are much more picky. We used of course my US address.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

Thank you very much! I think waiting the two years is the route to go since it will take time for a permanent move. I was just worried about not meeting the requirements of financial support, but I guess by that time everything will fall into place.

You'll have to cross that bridge when you get to it. Depending on how famous an athlete he is, he may have enough assets by the time he is ready to move to cover the financial sponsorship (as you will be married, his assets count towards sponsorship). Or you can get a co-sponsor, or you can move back to the USA a few months ahead of him and start working to fulfill the financial aspect.

[Allegra+Hadrien 2]

Hey girl, my husband is French as well. If you are not concerned about him coming to the States right away I would recommend going through the CR-1 process. The reason is that you apply only once to get the 2 year green card. Penguin is right, if you are married more than 2 years, you won't have to worry about anything for 10 years.

We had our civil mariage in a couthouse in Los Angeles while my husband was there visiting me. I sent in the papers as soon as I got the mariage certificate and he went back to France during the process. There was no problem as long as he returned to France. Some couples were even able to visit each other while waiting for their visa, so there is always a possibility of him coming if he can prove that he is wiling to return.

In the summer, we had our huge wedding ceremony next to Paris with his family, my family and all of our friends. We are now waiting for the interview. It will take a little over 7 months for us from start to finish (but one French couple had everything done in 4).. it varies from case to case.

As for submitting proof, I did not have a joint account with my hubby. we were both students living at his mom's apartment and he was fresh out of Grad school when we decided to get married. This is what I submitted: pictures of us throughout the years, pictures of our civil wedding with witnesses signing the license, a snapshot of all of the emails that were sent back and forth throughout the years, photocopy of my passport with all of my trips LA - France.

I am going to France for his interview and will bring our most recent wedding pictures, the ones of the ceremony.

I hope that helped you out a bit in your decision making. Good luck with everything

Edited November 26, 2011 by Allegra+Hadrien

[Teedra 0]

Hey girl, my husband is French as well. If you are not concerned about him coming to the States right away I would recommend going through the CR-1 process. The reason is that you apply only once to get the 2 year green card. Penguin is right, if you are married more than 2 years, you won't have to worry about anything for 10 years.

We had our civil mariage in a couthouse in Los Angeles while my husband was there visiting me. I sent in the papers as soon as I got the mariage certificate and he went back to France during the process. There was no problem as long as he returned to France. Some couples were even able to visit each other while waiting for their visa, so there is always a possibility of him coming if he can prove that he is wiling to return.

In the summer, we had our huge wedding ceremony next to Paris with his family, my family and all of our friends. We are now waiting for the interview. It will take a little over 7 months for us from start to finish (but one French couple had everything done in 4).. it varies from case to case.

As for submitting proof, I did not have a joint account with my hubby. we were both students living at his mom's apartment and he was fresh out of Grad school when we decided to get married. This is what I submitted: pictures of us throughout the years, pictures of our civil wedding with witnesses signing the license, a snapshot of all of the emails that were sent back and forth throughout the years, photocopy of my passport with all of my trips LA - France.

I am going to France for his interview and will bring our most recent wedding pictures, the ones of the ceremony.

I hope that helped you out a bit in your decision making. Good luck with everything

Thank you! How relieved I am to see someone in a similar situation and has actually gone through the process! I wish you the best of luck as well I am assuming you know French, which I don't My bf has been urging me to learn and that would probably help with my hesitation to move there lol. I was wondering if you had problems with people being able to come for your wedding? I may be open to the idea to have a wedding in Paris or near, but I am worried not everyone will have the resources on my side. @Penguin I just looked at the poverty line for 2011, and I will be able to meet the 125% requirement

Thank you all for your help, I can now freak out less about this process and more about a wedding (when the time comes). Also, I guess explaining to friends and family our "unorthodox" choices due to the immigration process haha.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Teedra

[Allegra+Hadrien 2]

Thank you! How relieved I am to see someone in a similar situation and has actually gone through the process! I wish you the best of luck as well I am assuming you know French, which I don't My bf has been urging me to learn and that would probably help with my hesitation to move there lol. I was wondering if you had problems with people being able to come for your wedding? I may be open to the idea to have a wedding in Paris or near, but I am worried not everyone will have the resources on my side. @Penguin I just looked at the poverty line for 2011, and I will be able to meet the 125% requirement

Thank you all for your help, I can now freak out less about this process and more about a wedding (when the time comes). Also, I guess explaining to friends and family our "unorthodox" choices due to the immigration process haha.

Where in France would you move if you considered it? The great thing about living in Paris for me was that there were TONS of expats. I made friends from all around the world and spoke English with them most of the time. I know some people who have lived there for years, have bilingual kids and still haven't made the effort to learn the language In Paris, the Sorbonne offeres French classes to foreigners ~ those are fun because most of the students are taking University classes so the ages range from 20-30 years old... then of course, there is the Alliance Francaise as an option as well.

I have lived in France for 8 years before moving back to the States for work. I will be completely honest: adapting to new surroundings wherever you're from is the hardest thing in the world ~ let's just say, it's easier for some people than others.

I say this, and FYI, my mom is French! My parents raised my sister and I in LA.

France and the US are polar opposites in every aspect: their way of thinking, socializing, administrative processing... it takes time to get used to.

However, the country is so beautiful, the amount of culture accesible is incredible, I have made so many indescribable memories from France and lifelong friends, that I do not regret movig there at all.

As for the wedding part, not everyone was able to attend but most of them did ~ my mom's side of the family is French though so it helped that they were already there. A lot of people to my surprise, were willing to come because it gave them an excuse to travel and go to France, if they had never been before.

Hadrien's family friend also lent us a big house to have the reception. There were about 18 rooms and we let the people traveling from far use them so that the only thing they would have to purchase was the plane ticket.

You must already know this but in order to get married in France, you must have a civil wedding before you can have any type of ceremonial wedding. We chose to have the civil wedding in the States so that we could have a party for our American friends who we knew could not make it out to France. It was fabulous - two engagement parties, two weddings. lol. You can maybe pull it off the other way around too - civil wedding in Paris and ceremony in the States.

Oh and TRUST me, friends and family will never understand the visa process. My mom was on my case 24/7, she thought Hadrien wasn't being "man enough" for not wanting to come sooner. or why we couldn't just call to speed up the process. UGHHHHH. made me crazy

[Allegra+Hadrien 2]

BTW - If you live in France for more than 6 months you can file for DCF (Direct Consular Filing) which speeds up the visa process tremenduously.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

BTW - If you live in France for more than 6 months you can file for DCF (Direct Consular Filing) which speeds up the visa process tremenduously.

No she cannot, France doesn't have a USCIS office and so DCF is not an option.

[Teedra 0]

Where in France would you move if you considered it? The great thing about living in Paris for me was that there were TONS of expats. I made friends from all around the world and spoke English with them most of the time. I know some people who have lived there for years, have bilingual kids and still haven't made the effort to learn the language In Paris, the Sorbonne offeres French classes to foreigners ~ those are fun because most of the students are taking University classes so the ages range from 20-30 years old... then of course, there is the Alliance Francaise as an option as well.

I have lived in France for 8 years before moving back to the States for work. I will be completely honest: adapting to new surroundings wherever you're from is the hardest thing in the world ~ let's just say, it's easier for some people than others.

I say this, and FYI, my mom is French! My parents raised my sister and I in LA.

France and the US are polar opposites in every aspect: their way of thinking, socializing, administrative processing... it takes time to get used to.

However, the country is so beautiful, the amount of culture accesible is incredible, I have made so many indescribable memories from France and lifelong friends, that I do not regret movig there at all.

As for the wedding part, not everyone was able to attend but most of them did ~ my mom's side of the family is French though so it helped that they were already there. A lot of people to my surprise, were willing to come because it gave them an excuse to travel and go to France, if they had never been before.

Hadrien's family friend also lent us a big house to have the reception. There were about 18 rooms and we let the people traveling from far use them so that the only thing they would have to purchase was the plane ticket.

You must already know this but in order to get married in France, you must have a civil wedding before you can have any type of ceremonial wedding. We chose to have the civil wedding in the States so that we could have a party for our American friends who we knew could not make it out to France. It was fabulous - two engagement parties, two weddings. lol. You can maybe pull it off the other way around too - civil wedding in Paris and ceremony in the States.

Oh and TRUST me, friends and family will never understand the visa process. My mom was on my case 24/7, she thought Hadrien wasn't being "man enough" for not wanting to come sooner. or why we couldn't just call to speed up the process. UGHHHHH. made me crazy

@Penguin Thank you for the clarification, guess it couldn't be too easy for me lol He is from a town about 45 mins outside of Paris. I actually enjoyed my time in Paris and Lyon, as I found the cities more "accommodating" to non-French speakers. As of now, he lives in a small town about an hour outside of Lyon and I experienced a bit of a culture shock. I was definitely an outsider because very few people knew how to speak English and I found myself relying on him quite a bit. I am somewhat of an independent and career driven person, so my eyes opened a bit since he has been in this small town for two seasons. While he is still playing, we could move all over, depending on his contract. Thank you for your input about the classes, as I would definitely need to join. I just have my own career aspirations in the US that I am sure I wouldn't be able to achieve in France, which makes it hard to pick up and leave. However, I do agree that France is a beautiful country and can be a wonderful experience.

I had no idea about the civil ceremony requirement in France. Thank you for this information. My bf has the attitude of "everything will work out" and I am the person who has to know details and plan lol He is completely clueless about anything wedding related..he wasn't sure what I meant when I mentioned a wedding band I am so glad I know what we are getting ourselves into beforehand lol

Allegra, just by your brief description of your experience, your life seems everything but boring Maybe I'm insane, but I like the sound of two parties, and two weddings. Although, I was also considering a destination wedding to avoid all the nerve racking planning I wish you all much success and thank you for taking the time out to answer my questions. You are not alone with the mother concern. People rarely understand that France is a country and not a city, everytime I leave to visit him in France, people instantly ask me about my trip to "Paris" when in actuality, the town I am visiting is about 4-5 hours from Paris I just gave up trying to correct people now, Americans..hehe

[Allegra+Hadrien 2]

No she cannot, France doesn't have a USCIS office and so DCF is not an option.

You're right, my bad . It was possible when I was looking at my options back in November 2011 but they changed the rules in August as I just saw on their website.

Some other French filer said it was possible, in another thread recently, that's why I thought it still available.

[Allegra+Hadrien 2]

@Penguin Thank you for the clarification, guess it couldn't be too easy for me lol He is from a town about 45 mins outside of Paris. I actually enjoyed my time in Paris and Lyon, as I found the cities more "accommodating" to non-French speakers. As of now, he lives in a small town about an hour outside of Lyon and I experienced a bit of a culture shock. I was definitely an outsider because very few people knew how to speak English and I found myself relying on him quite a bit. I am somewhat of an independent and career driven person, so my eyes opened a bit since he has been in this small town for two seasons. While he is still playing, we could move all over, depending on his contract. Thank you for your input about the classes, as I would definitely need to join. I just have my own career aspirations in the US that I am sure I wouldn't be able to achieve in France, which makes it hard to pick up and leave. However, I do agree that France is a beautiful country and can be a wonderful experience.

I had no idea about the civil ceremony requirement in France. Thank you for this information. My bf has the attitude of "everything will work out" and I am the person who has to know details and plan lol He is completely clueless about anything wedding related..he wasn't sure what I meant when I mentioned a wedding band I am so glad I know what we are getting ourselves into beforehand lol

Allegra, just by your brief description of your experience, your life seems everything but boring Maybe I'm insane, but I like the sound of two parties, and two weddings. Although, I was also considering a destination wedding to avoid all the nerve racking planning I wish you all much success and thank you for taking the time out to answer my questions. You are not alone with the mother concern. People rarely understand that France is a country and not a city, everytime I leave to visit him in France, people instantly ask me about my trip to "Paris" when in actuality, the town I am visiting is about 4-5 hours from Paris I just gave up trying to correct people now, Americans..hehe

HAHAHAHA I totally feel you on your bf's attitude - guess it must be a French thing. lolololol.

Yes, so there are several requirements if you want to legally marry in France and/or if you want to register your mariage in France - which is entirely up to you guys.

1. "Publication des bans" (at the French consultate in the States-2 months before wedding- or, at the Mairie in France - 30 days before wedding). This step is not really required if you do the civil part of your mariage in the States, you can still get your certificate transcribed without it.. however, according to the website, it might take longer to transcribe if you decide to skip this step.

2. Civil wedding (in the States or at the Mairie in France)

3. va va voom wedding ceremony with officiant (wherever you want upon verfication of civil mariage).

A lot of people in France do the civil wedding and the ceremony the same day... because the civil thing only takes 5 minutes.

The only thing that sooooks is that your man sees you and it's not so much a GRAND entrance afterwards for your ceremony.

Others do the civil a couple of months, weeks or days in advance (just the two of them) to get it out of the way and get the paper for the ceremony. It's kind of like getting your mariage license but in front of the Mayor and with your "witnesses" present. If you get married at the Mairie in France, they give you the livret de famille right away (which is your family's records such as date of mariage, date of children's births, deaths in youur direct family, etc...) and you can go pick up the mariage certificate at the Mairie just a couple of days after your civil wedding.

If you do the civil ceremony in the States you can present your American mariage certificate to the officiant in France for the ceremony there, but it is also good to register your mariage in France just in case you'll need to later on, by sending the certificate and paperwork to the French consulate. The consulate will deliver the "livret de famille" and an official translation of your wedding certificate 4 months later.

Sorry if this all seems a bit complicated. It might be double the paperwork, having an international wedding, but it's worth getting it all done at once... Your man can probably explain to you what all of the steps mean. I didn't know about any of this either until Hadrien's like "woooops I think we have to do the publications des bans before our civil marriage..." I am like :"####### is that??" and he says that they put a list up at the Mairie for 10 days saying you are planning to get married. If there is a strong reason why you should not get married - let's say if you are blood-related for example - someone can come look at the list and contest your mariage. It's an old tradition apparently.

I wish you the best of luck . Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

Oh and YES, any excuse to party. I'm gearing up for x-mas over there. Hadrien's interview is on the 21st - Champagne, foie gras, wine, baguette, cheese up the wazoo, Hadrien's good-bye party...... HERE I COME!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Then we'll have a home coming party when he gets here, BUT OF COURSE).

Edited November 27, 2011 by Allegra+Hadrien