Disproving intelligent design with a mouse trap

[Captain Oates 911]

You must be careful in using the blunderbuss approach to criticize religion. Threats of eternal hellfire are what they are, but to say that religious people are so afraid of it that they act out of fear neglects to consider what exactly religion is. Religion is a source of comfort in an increasingly complex world, that is the Divine gift. Now you might opine that you are into science but science is theories, ideas of what might exist. Why do we even have science and why does the universe have a set of arbitrary laws that seem to govern it? Look, you don't dig religion and I hate people who misuse religion to inflict their own wishes on others. Science is one thing, I'm not disputing that, what is of greater concern is that only the wise will admit, "I don't know." I'm not very wise but I know just a bit about science and religion and I'm not afraid to say that I just don't know enough to reconcile things.

That is fair enough. I am at one side of the town and the religious are at the other.

The American constitution is saying that y'all do your own thing and don't try and form a government to smash down the other lot - leave em alone and live and let live (This is an update from 1787)

Now I could go with that

The trouble is that religious people come over into my part of town and kill abortion doctors or forge the exam results of people from other faiths to fail their results, pass State laws to say I cant hold office or testify under oath, and generally take the offensive and attack people on my side of the issue

People of the Islamic faith feel discriminated against but they have never faced the discrimination that people of no faith have

How can conservative non believers in Texas go to the rick perry meeting when it is billed as a faith and values meeting

Note that religious people say I am not fit hold office, not fit to be a witness in court and my values are absent. George H Bush said atheists are not citizens.

Now this is a hail of disrespect and devaluation, disenfranchisement and occasionally murder that is directed from religious people towards non believers.

They are coming over to my side of town and smashing my windows (figuratively)

If they acted like christ urged them to, they would not do this.

If they acted like the founding fathers wanted them to, they would not do this

This explains why I am sliding from being non- religious to anti-religious.

It is self defense from a vindictive and pejorative mob of self -affirming christian bigots

Lets hope for their sake that there isn't a god - because they would be the first for the eternal fires - not me

You only have to read the posts on the religious forum to see that these purported christians don't show any serenity, peace, beneficence, gentleness, pacifism - no christ like features at all. If they are christians, then they might know the words in the bible but they don't model themselves on jesus - not one little bit

Its all about what they would like to stick in my backside for not believing what they believe - and they rub their hands with glee at the pain that will be inflicted on me while pulling up the ladder thinking they are safe from the fires and are nestled in safe with the majority

christians - i don't think so

The average non believer is a thinking person who is usually far more christ like than the average christian

Disclosure - I was raised a Primitive Methodist and also went to a church of England school where we were marched from school to church in the snow and made to pray. I also went to a Baptist church. Everything any of them came out with is either superstition or monotonous ritual like the Freemasons

I feel much happier without any of it, and I face life's setbacks with strength from within myself and the logic of reasoned humans, and I look out for the next attack from the so-called religious and keep myself out of their reach

[Captain Oates 911]

Psst, those are human beings, not GOD. Don't get stuck in the horse latitudes over this, GOD does not equal people.

It is the duty of the religious to get back into their church and deal with their vindictive members - not sit back and vote for the injustices they inflict on non believers and then wash their hands and say it wasn't their god that did it

They claim all the good in the world that is done by the religious, and then shake off all the evil

Stopping the evil of the pedo priests and the RWNJ preachers and politicians would be the best good they could do, and they need to make a start on it instead of cherry picking the good stuff

They need to back off and leave us alone - then we will leave them alone. That was the deal in 1787 and it is they who are going back on the deal. Back in your churches and stay there.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[Danno 1,228]

That is fair enough. I am at one side of the town and the religious are at the other.

The American constitution is saying that y'all do your own thing and don't try and form a government to smash down the other lot - leave em alone and live and let live (This is an update from 1787)

Now I could go with that

The trouble is that religious people come over into my part of town and kill abortion doctors or forge the exam results of people from other faiths to fail their results, pass State laws to say I cant hold office or testify under oath, and generally take the offensive and attack people on my side of the issue

People of the Islamic faith feel discriminated against but they have never faced the discrimination that people of no faith have

How can conservative non believers in Texas go to the rick perry meeting when it is billed as a faith and values meeting

Note that religious people say I am not fit hold office, not fit to be a witness in court and my values are absent. George H Bush said atheists are not citizens.

Now this is a hail of disrespect and devaluation, disenfranchisement and occasionally murder that is directed from religious people towards non believers.

They are coming over to my side of town and smashing my windows (figuratively)

If they acted like christ urged them to, they would not do this.

If they acted like the founding fathers wanted them to, they would not do this

This explains why I am sliding from being non- religious to anti-religious.

It is self defense from a vindictive and pejorative mob of self -affirming christian bigots

Lets hope for their sake that there isn't a god - because they would be the first for the eternal fires - not me

You only have to read the posts on the religious forum to see that these purported christians don't show any serenity, peace, beneficence, gentleness, pacifism - no christ like features at all. If they are christians, then they might know the words in the bible but they don't model themselves on jesus - not one little bit

Its all about what they would like to stick in my backside for not believing what they believe - and they rub their hands with glee at the pain that will be inflicted on me while pulling up the ladder thinking they are safe from the fires and are nestled in safe with the majority

christians - i don't think so

The average non believer is a thinking person who is usually far more christ like than the average christian

Disclosure - I was raised a Primitive Methodist and also went to a church of England school where we were marched from school to church in the snow and made to pray. I also went to a Baptist church. Everything any of them came out with is either superstition or monotonous ritual like the Freemasons

I feel much happier without any of it, and I face life's setbacks with strength from within myself and the logic of reasoned humans, and I look out for the next attack from the so-called religious and keep myself out of their reach

Dude you have become a broken record, nearly all the stuff you just posted .... has been posted before by you: I challenged them then and you whisked away only to pop up again and respost the same stuff.

Here is a real easy one, cite for me when Bush said Atheists were not "real Americans" or whatever it is you are claiming.

[Danno 1,228]

It is the duty of the religious to get back into their church and deal with their vindictive members - not sit back and vote for the injustices they inflict on non believers and then wash their hands and say it wasn't their god that did it

They claim all the good in the world that is done by the religious, and then shake off all the evil

Stopping the evil of the pedo priests and the RWNJ preachers and politicians would be the best good they could do, and they need to make a start on it instead of cherry picking the good stuff

They need to back off and leave us alone - then we will leave them alone. That was the deal in 1787 and it is they who are going back on the deal. Back in your churches and stay there.

If none believers have it so bad here in America, le'me give you a novel idea.

Do what the Pilgrims did, leave the land of oppression and go start a model based on what you hold dear.

It worked out pretty good for them (and us) lets see if you can top that.

I'm bettin not many atheists will NOT follow you because on the whole... religious folk ain't all that bad, in fact they do a lot of "free stuff" for the community.

[Captain Oates 911]

Dude you have become a broken record, nearly all the stuff you just posted .... has been posted before by you: I challenged them then and you whisked away only to pop up again and respost the same stuff.

Here is a real easy one, cite for me when Bush said Atheists were not "real Americans" or whatever it is you are claiming.

Read and apologize - and do the googling yourself next time. Or ask god to give you the link

BUSH ON ATHEISTS

[웃 910]

Dude you have become a broken record......

If none believers have it so bad here in America, le'me give you a novel idea.

Do what the Pilgrims did, leave the land of oppression and go start a model based on what you hold dear.

You are being very rude. I demand you think inside your brain and communicate with G-Sis and Her Mother immediately. Sometimes you can get a better frequency of communication if you kneel down. Even better if you close your eyes + kneel down. And still even better if you kneel down + close eyes + go inside a prayer closet.

Tell me what She and G-Sis say please. Don't keep it a secret. Think inside your brain as hard as you can. Otherwise your thoughts will be intercepted by a Creature with Red Skin and horns. He is very mad because He is on fire right now.

[Captain Oates 911]

If none believers have it so bad here in America, le'me give you a novel idea.

Do what the Pilgrims did, leave the land of oppression and go start a model based on what you hold dear.

It worked out pretty good for them (and us) lets see if you can top that.

I'm bettin not many atheists will NOT follow you because on the whole... religious folk ain't all that bad, in fact they do a lot of "free stuff" for the community.

and the priests do a lot of free stuff for the little boys too

but you ignore that

You are a typical un-american in that any time anyone says anything you don't like, you tell tell to get out of the country so they are silenced and only your voice can be heard.

Anti free speech in its purest form. Anti the 1st that's you. Send them somewhere else and silence them that way.

Well I am staying bud so why don't you get out out the country instead - Ireland is good place for the religious who are anti non believers and belligerent with it - and they don't have the 1st so it will suit you better.

However, I am quite prepared to let you stay so long as you start talking constitutionally and stop trying to silence people who don't think like you

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

It is the duty of the religious to get back into their church and deal with their vindictive members - not sit back and vote for the injustices they inflict on non believers and then wash their hands and say it wasn't their god that did it

They claim all the good in the world that is done by the religious, and then shake off all the evil

Stopping the evil of the pedo priests and the RWNJ preachers and politicians would be the best good they could do, and they need to make a start on it instead of cherry picking the good stuff

They need to back off and leave us alone - then we will leave them alone. That was the deal in 1787 and it is they who are going back on the deal. Back in your churches and stay there.

America was founded on religious freedom and while this mania to push for some legalistic aspergillum is quite disturbing I do not see it as quite the menace that you do. I can feel your marginalization, I understand and do concur that some of the nonsense has no basis in reality. Altruistic behaviour, whether committed under the aegis of religious doctrine or benign secularism, is the point.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

That is fair enough. I am at one side of the town and the religious are at the other.

The American constitution is saying that y'all do your own thing and don't try and form a government to smash down the other lot - leave em alone and live and let live (This is an update from 1787)

Now I could go with that

The trouble is that religious people come over into my part of town and kill abortion doctors or forge the exam results of people from other faiths to fail their results, pass State laws to say I cant hold office or testify under oath, and generally take the offensive and attack people on my side of the issue

People of the Islamic faith feel discriminated against but they have never faced the discrimination that people of no faith have

How can conservative non believers in Texas go to the rick perry meeting when it is billed as a faith and values meeting

Note that religious people say I am not fit hold office, not fit to be a witness in court and my values are absent. George H Bush said atheists are not citizens.

Now this is a hail of disrespect and devaluation, disenfranchisement and occasionally murder that is directed from religious people towards non believers.

They are coming over to my side of town and smashing my windows (figuratively)

If they acted like christ urged them to, they would not do this.

If they acted like the founding fathers wanted them to, they would not do this

This explains why I am sliding from being non- religious to anti-religious.

It is self defense from a vindictive and pejorative mob of self -affirming christian bigots

Lets hope for their sake that there isn't a god - because they would be the first for the eternal fires - not me

You only have to read the posts on the religious forum to see that these purported christians don't show any serenity, peace, beneficence, gentleness, pacifism - no christ like features at all. If they are christians, then they might know the words in the bible but they don't model themselves on jesus - not one little bit

Its all about what they would like to stick in my backside for not believing what they believe - and they rub their hands with glee at the pain that will be inflicted on me while pulling up the ladder thinking they are safe from the fires and are nestled in safe with the majority

christians - i don't think so

The average non believer is a thinking person who is usually far more christ like than the average christian

Disclosure - I was raised a Primitive Methodist and also went to a church of England school where we were marched from school to church in the snow and made to pray. I also went to a Baptist church. Everything any of them came out with is either superstition or monotonous ritual like the Freemasons

I feel much happier without any of it, and I face life's setbacks with strength from within myself and the logic of reasoned humans, and I look out for the next attack from the so-called religious and keep myself out of their reach

Perfunctory performance of ritual is not the same as worship. Belief is an internal issue and one reason we so many of these False Materialistic Messianists pushing their agenda on others is that they are weak. I will make up for a dearth of faith in myself by coercing others into my values. The road to Hell is indeed paved with good intentions, just ask Lucifer..

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

You are being very rude.

I agree. Civility in all matters of faith should always be observed. No matter how many times the arguments are raised I endeavour to be as even-tempered as possible.

[Captain Oates 911]

America was founded on religious freedom and while this mania to push for some legalistic aspergillum is quite disturbing I do not see it as quite the menace that you do. I can feel your marginalization, I understand and do concur that some of the nonsense has no basis in reality. Altruistic behaviour, whether committed under the aegis of religious doctrine or benign secularism, is the point.

Quite right - because I was brought up under the weight of religion, I know what followers of Christ are supposed to do.

In fact, that is why the creed has lasted so long - its all very laudable - except coveting oxes which I struggle with one day at a time.

If the Christians would try and temp people towards their creed, they would do much better than when they come out scaring and threatening and bludgeoning the unbelievers - because that shows them to be people who haven't absorbed an ounce of Jesus' teachings

There are christians on this thread who want to insert sharp things into my behind - how can anyone like that call themselves a follower of jesus ?

Now they want me to go out of the country so that America can be 100% christian. Jefferson would be spinning in his grave if he knew this was to be the fate of the US

My only agenda is for them to repeal all laws against the non religious and not discriminate in any way and separate politics and religion so that I can go to a political meeting without having to be forced into praying.

In other words I want them to get off my back and then I will never say anything against them ever again and they can be left in peace to fleece their flock

Edited November 27, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Quite right - because I was brought up under the weight of religion, I know what followers of Christ are supposed to do.

In fact, that is why the creed has lasted so long - its all very laudable - except coveting oxes which I struggle with one day at a time.

If the Christians would try and temp people towards their creed, they would do much better than when they come out scaring and threatening and bludgeoning the unbelievers - because that shows them to be people who haven't absorbed an ounce of Jesus' teachings

There are christians on this thread who want to insert sharp things into my behind - how can anyone like that call themselves a follower of jesus ?

Now they want me to go out of the country so that America can be 100% christian. Jefferson would be spinning in his grave if he knew this was to be the fate of the US

My only agenda is for them to repeal all laws against the non religious and not discriminate in any way and separate politics and religion so that I can go to a political meeting without having to be forced into praying.

In other words I want them to get off my back and then I will never say anything against them ever again and they can be left in peace to fleece their flock

Prayer has no business in a political meeting, pray with all your heart for some greater good not at some goofy political function for who knows what. I won't comment on the meanness of some of the laws or the exclusionary policies, other than this: THIS IS AMERICA NOT THE US-ISTAN, WE WILL NEVER LET IT BECOME A WHITEWASHED TOMB.

[Danno 1,228]

You are being very rude.

Forgive my rudeness if you took it that way, one thing I like about you is your ability to "not get personal".

Peace Bro.