The Southern Border

[Pooky 3,785]

Well the Conservatives blame the government for inaction

Then next minute they don't want any government

..and a Conservative congressman blocks attempts to make it harder for illegals to work, thus encouraging the number of illegals amongst whom the criminals can hide

Shouldn't we blame the americans who are demanding all these drugs, or is that too simplistic ?

I mean if you were always dropping crumbs all over your kitchen floor, would you blame the cockroaches for coming in, or rentakill for not doing a good job ?

Again with the partisan BS.

Last I saw, roughly 70% of the American PEOPLE agreed with AZ SB 1070 and what it was trying to do. Per a previous assertion of yours, more than 50% of Americans don't like the Republicans, so it can't just be Republicans calling for a more serious approach to border security. It is pan-partisan. Republicans, Independents and Democrats alike want to see more done to make the border more secure. Unfortunately, what the voters want and what Washington wants appear to be two separate and mutually exclusive things.

And this is not about blaming anyone. It is about doing something. It is about US law enforcement doing what is necessary within the law to prevent foreign national, murdering drug-traffickers setting up a sanctuary zone within the USA.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Violence along the border is NO joke. Especially at CDJ, where our lovely fiancees have to go to appear for their USCIS interview.

Why must we continue to have the embassy appearance there?

Peace.

[Captain Oates 911]

Again with the partisan BS.

Last I saw, roughly 70% of the American PEOPLE agreed with AZ SB 1070 and what it was trying to do. Per a previous assertion of yours, more than 50% of Americans don't like the Republicans, so it can't just be Republicans calling for a more serious approach to border security. It is pan-partisan. Republicans, Independents and Democrats alike want to see more done to make the border more secure. Unfortunately, what the voters want and what Washington wants appear to be two separate and mutually exclusive things.

And this is not about blaming anyone. It is about doing something. It is about US law enforcement doing what is necessary within the law to prevent foreign national, murdering drug-traffickers setting up a sanctuary zone within the USA.

Well if you want to be non partisan - lets assume that this vast army of american citizens who create the demand for drugs, are from all parts of the political spectrum

..and if you want something DONE, why do you refuse to concentrate on DOING something about people who buy drugs ?

You are too focused on your own parochial agenda and refuse to look at the wide picture

The supply of new Ford model T's stopped when the demand stopped

Concentrate on eliminating the demand and the supply and the suppliers will wither.

Get your head up, look to the horizon, and see the wide picture - no demand, no drug dealers, no violence,

problem solved.

In Singapore, druggies are hanged. That affected the drugs scene in a marked way

They could be 'slow hanged' for 30 seconds as a warning after a first offense if you want to be nice about it

Singapore - string em up

Edited November 21, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[Pooky 3,785]

Well if you want to be non partisan - lets assume that this vast army of american citizens who create the demand for drugs, are from all parts of the political spectrum

..and if you want something DONE, why do you refuse to concentrate on DOING something about people who buy drugs ?

You are too focused on your own parochial agenda and refuse to look at the wide picture

The supply of new Ford model T's stopped when the demand stopped

Concentrate on eliminating the demand and the supply and the suppliers will wither.

Get your head up, look to the horizon, and see the wide picture - no demand, no drug dealers, no violence,

problem solved.

In Singapore, druggies are hanged. That affected the drugs scene in a marked way

They could be 'slow hanged' for 30 seconds as a warning after a first offense if you want to be nice about it

Singapore - string em up

You're rather bloodthirsty for a Democrat. Fortunately, the USA doesn't consider drug use a capital offence, so we won't be hanging them any time soon.

What you are avoiding is the fact that there are drug programs and law enforcement already out there, doing what they can to combat drug use. But they can only do so much. The best way to tackle a problem is from all sides and that includes border security to stem the flow of illegal narcotics and those who stand to benefit from them across the border. That is the wider picture.

For all your protestations, the cartels will not stop using the US side of the Mexican border as a sanctuary zone, as long as they feel safer from justice here than they do in their home country. The USA should not allow itself to be seen as a safe haven for some of the most brutal criminals there are. If we do, it's only a matter of time before the death toll starts mounting on this side of the border. And that would be criminal, on the part of Washington.

But you just want cheap apples and pears.

[Captain Oates 911]

You're rather bloodthirsty for a Democrat. Fortunately, the USA doesn't consider drug use a capital offence, so we won't be hanging them any time soon.

What you are avoiding is the fact that there are drug programs and law enforcement already out there, doing what they can to combat drug use. But they can only do so much. The best way to tackle a problem is from all sides and that includes border security to stem the flow of illegal narcotics and those who stand to benefit from them across the border. That is the wider picture.

For all your protestations, the cartels will not stop using the US side of the Mexican border as a sanctuary zone, as long as they feel safer from justice here than they do in their home country. The USA should not allow itself to be seen as a safe haven for some of the most brutal criminals there are. If we do, it's only a matter of time before the death toll starts mounting on this side of the border. And that would be criminal, on the part of Washington.

But you just want cheap apples and pears.

That's amazing - the budget problem must not be tackled by addressing cost and income, and the border problem is to be tackled from the supply side only, and its the president's fault if it isn't

I say increase the penalties for drugs and especially for those who sell them. Increase the penalties until the pips squeak. They crack down on the supply of child porn and these drugs are doing far more damage to society as a whole because of the crime they facilitate

They even let Keith Richards live in the USA when he writes books about all the hard drugs and illegal guns he had here in the USA when he was here on a work visa

My wife bought me that book - he is disgusting

I usually get loads of people defending drugs on these forums so it just shows how drug ridden American society is and how they are causing all the crime problems themselves, while blaming foreigners like the Mexicans for giving them what they demand

Edited November 22, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[Pooky 3,785]

That's amazing - the budget problem must not be tackled by addressing cost and income, and the border problem is to be tackled from the supply side only, and its the president's fault if it isn't

I say increase the penalties for drugs and especially for those who sell them. Increase the penalties until the pips squeak. They crack down on the supply of child porn and these drugs are doing far more damage to society as a whole because of the crime they facilitate

They even let Keith Richards live in the USA when he writes books about all the hard drugs and illegal guns he had here in the USA when he was here on a work visa

My wife bought me that book - he is disgusting

I usually get loads of people defending drugs on these forums so it just shows how drug ridden American society is and how they are causing all the crime problems themselves, while blaming foreigners like the Mexicans for giving them what they demand

One day, you might actually reply to what I argued, not what you wish I had argued to suit your blinkered opinion of my politics.

We already are trying to tackle the demand side of the problem. In fact that is where most of the "tackling" is being focused. Where we are focusing least is the border. There is hardly any "tackling" going on there at all. We need a balanced approach that is within the law. For the users and the dealers, we are doing what we can. Your talk of increasing penalties is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. Never going to happen.

But, for the suppliers, we're almost turning a blind eye.

And here's where you make no sense at all. You complain that they crack down on the supply of child porn, as opposed to illegal narcotics, yet you don't want to see the supply side tackled at all. Not once have you even hinted that stopping illegal narcotics at the border would be a good thing. Why is that?

Because the dealers are small time. The cartels are big game. If you want to stem the supply, you go after the people who move the illegal narcotics in volume, not just the small-time distributors. Dealers can, and will, be replaced in a heartbeat. Major traffickers, if they're caught and dealt with, won't be. The best place for that to happen is at the border, before the illegal narcotics get dispersed around the USA. And that means effective security on our border.

But then you won't have cheap apples.

[Captain Oates 911]

One day, you might actually reply to what I argued, not what you wish I had argued to suit your blinkered opinion of my politics.

We already are trying to tackle the demand side of the problem. In fact that is where most of the "tackling" is being focused. Where we are focusing least is the border. There is hardly any "tackling" going on there at all. We need a balanced approach that is within the law. For the users and the dealers, we are doing what we can. Your talk of increasing penalties is pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking. Never going to happen.

But, for the suppliers, we're almost turning a blind eye.

And here's where you make no sense at all. You complain that they crack down on the supply of child porn, as opposed to illegal narcotics, yet you don't want to see the supply side tackled at all. Not once have you even hinted that stopping illegal narcotics at the border would be a good thing. Why is that?

Because the dealers are small time. The cartels are big game. If you want to stem the supply, you go after the people who move the illegal narcotics in volume, not just the small-time distributors. Dealers can, and will, be replaced in a heartbeat. Major traffickers, if they're caught and dealt with, won't be. The best place for that to happen is at the border, before the illegal narcotics get dispersed around the USA. And that means effective security on our border.

But then you won't have cheap apples.

Why is there no demand for illegal machine guns in the USA - because the penalties are harsh - very harsh and there is no demand.

The machine guns would be available in the USA if people demanded them at say $5k each and the penalties were low

The dealers in machine guns are virtually non existent because its not worth the risk, so your arguments that the dealers would be replaced, doesn't hold water

I just think the Americans, by demanding drugs, are the initiators of the problem, and its convenient for them to externalize the problem and blame the Mexicans

My wife used to put seed out for the birds and every sparrow from miles around came and messed all over the fences and the garden chairs and the patio. I got her to stop it and now the yard is nice and clean

I didn't arrest or kill or imprison any sparrows but now I never see one

The border problems are exactly the same - we cause it by our actions and we shouldn't blame them for responding to our enticements.

Its our problem, we created it, and we should clean up our own back yard - and then it will go away.

We have rotated a couple of million military personnel through Iraq and Afghanistan and now 30% are unemployed. A lot more will be released in the next couple of years and there are no jobs for them. Re-hire them and put them to work getting the drug dealers, yes and their clients too. Increase the penalties so that they are scared out of their wits and dare not do it.

People here smoke drugs and laugh and are relaxed about it and don't care and are not fearful all that much. When that changes, the rest of the picture will too.