Concealed weapons permits cross state lines.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well here are the facts. The facts suit me fine

In 1986 5 states allowed concealed carry. In 2011 49 states allow concealed carry. All that have passed concealed carry have had a reduction in crime. Only Illinois refuses to reduce their crime rate.

38 states states already have reciprocity so this is really nothing new, those who think it is have not been paying attention. Kentucky and Indiana already recognize my drivers license as a concealed carry permit. Deal with it. If you do not like it...you do not have to. It does not matter of you like it or not.

In 2009 ONE state allowed "constitutional carry" Which allows ANYONE to carry concealed firearms without a permit. Not coincidentally it is the state I choose to make my home and the state with the lowest crime rate. In 2011 FOUR states allow constitutional carry and THREE more will likely pass it in the next year. (for those ignorant of the law, felons are NEVER allowed to posess firearms unless they have been granted a waiver which is not easy...but I digress)

Congress has not passed a law to restrict our gun rights since 1994. We know what happened when they did...so do they.

This bill as passed yesterday has been around for perhaps a decade, again if you did not know that you are paying attention. It may not get implemented now, but it will get implemented. It may be a moot point by then.

The Supreme Court has handed down the Heller and McDonald decisions. The Supreme court will soon be hearing a case that will address the age discrimination which orevents 18-20 year old adult citizens from buying handguns and address laws which ban arbitrary cosmetic features of firearms (say "goodbye" to any state assault weapons bans)

The movement is, and has been, toward more freedom. That will not change in my lifetime

For all the morons that ever suggested that firearms laws be similar to laws for owning cars...this is a step in the right direction.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

But all states issue marriage licenses and drivers licenses.

But by different qualifications, yet your license is valid in any of them even though you may not qualify for a license in the state you are driving through. The new law does not apply to states that do not issue concealed carry licenses or allow concealed carry(Illinois and DC)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Your more knowledgeable on the gun laws, so would you know off hand if an American citizen can or cannot carry a loaded handgun in the Peoples Republic of California?

With a concealed carry permit, yes. California does have concealed carry permits. They are "discretionary" which means you need the permission of the local sherrif, which means that some sherrifs allow them to be issued easily and some do not issue them at all. Very discrimanatory, often racist..typical California. 6 other states also have this system.

Most states have the "non-discretionary" license. This means if you meet the qualifications (usually that you have no felony convictions, sometimes requires a training course) then you get one, you do not need "permission" or a "reason"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

When guns are outlawed, only felons will have guns!

Comforting thought isn't it? The NRA has been saying that for decades

But the best news is...what you think doesn't matter. Not at all.

Edited November 17, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Ban Hammer 13,342]

We dug Oliver Cromwell's body up 10 years after he was buried - and hung it !

That's what I call due process.

in the usa, we call that desecration of a corpse.

[slim 1,525]

It's almost like Booyah is back on the forum. "I own guns but none of us should have any gun rights." If guns are so bad, then why do you have them?

Leatherneck summed up the government confiscation part quite nicely.

The beauty of Liberty is you don't have to participate in things you don't like. If you're not a fan of guns... don't have one. If you don't like carrying one, don't. But, you have no right to prohibit 0someone else from carrying one because they're not infringing upon your rights by doing so.

[Leatherneck 693]

It's almost like Booyah is back on the forum. "I own guns but none of us should have any gun rights." If guns are so bad, then why do you have them?

Leatherneck summed up the government confiscation part quite nicely.

The beauty of Liberty is you don't have to participate in things you don't like. If you're not a fan of guns... don't have one. If you don't like carrying one, don't. But, you have no right to prohibit 0someone else from carrying one because they're not infringing upon your rights by doing so.

Well said!

There was a time in this country when you could enjoy your slice of freedom and "the pursuit of happiness." Now we're a country infested with nanny-state and busy-body types seeking to prevent others from enjoying things they don't like, even when another's enjoyment has zero impact on them.

Public high schools, colleges and universities are churning these anti liberty, government-knows-best types out by the thousands.

[Captain Oates 911]

Absolutely not, I would never want to nor do I have any desire to engage military personnel. I have to disagree with your assessment " usually by people who keep guns for the purpose of killing them if they don't like the government."

Freedom loving patriots problems would not be with the military, but with the clowns in Congress and the clowns in the Executive branch. If government went from the soft tryanny we have now to a full blown tryanny, it would be those in government violating the Constitution and the oath they took. Which is pretty normal for them anyway.

Unlike other third world banana republics, most members of the uniformed services take very seriously the oath "to uphold and defend the Constitution." No where does the uniform military oath mention defending the government or the arses in Congress.

We are a nation of laws and not a nation of men. Every member of the armed forces understands he/she has not only a right, but a duty to disobey an illegal order, and I would put turning weapons on American citizens pretty high on the list of an illegal order. Most military commanders have more than a cup full of ethics as part of their character, whereas politicians and bureaucrats have next to none.

With that said, I have confidence that an order to 'turn too' on American citizens from Washington would be ignored by the commanders in the field, besides, I don't think an order of such seriousness would make it passed of the pentagon... not to mention it wouldn't get passed the Joint Chiefs.

However, I have zero faith in local law enforcement officers, I have no doubt many of those men/women would not hesitate do the harm to citizens if the feces hit the fan. Those guys have no problem with lying and covering up for each other.

The military runs a tighter ship than law enforcement, members of the military are held accountable for their actions all the way up the chain of command.

Therefore I don't envision a shooting match with the military, but if it did come down to that... there are far more prior military citizens and guns than active duty military and we love this country far more than we love those damn fools in DC.

Don't under estimate the American love of freedom nor the willingness to take up arms against DC to remain free.

In the civil war you tried this

Result A ....600,000 Americans killed

Result B ....a black man in the white house

Think about it

There is no way you get get to kill the elected politicians you so despise - elected under the laws you purport to support, without killing US military personnel

The Commander in chief is the President and you think the Military would turn on and kill their Commander in Chief and lawfully elected Head of State ? What kind of micky mouse 3rd world oath is that ?

Its all a silly fantasy

Jeez, VJ is inhabited by people who support Muslim terrorism, and others who support murdering their own military and elected politicians, commander in chief and head of State... all because they don't like universal health care

What is wrong with you people ? No wonder you are on here all day long and don't have jobs.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Of course it counts. What a stunning display of ignorance....

The American Revolution launched and age of democratic revolution that is still in motion. Take a remedial history class or something...

Americans have resisted bad government in the past, sometimes violently, and will do so in the future, I'm sure. Your quivering "englishness" will apparently never dissipate, so I guess you'll just always have to live with whatever bolder men allow you...

Oh, and btw.... the britiots burned an empty Washington DC, but paid the price at New Orleans. The only good redcoat's a dead....well, you understand, I'm certain...

More like a child throwing a temper tantrum. The war was already over before the Battle of New Orleans, so that doesn't really count.

[Captain Oates 911]

Well said!

There was a time in this country when you could enjoy your slice of freedom and "the pursuit of happiness." Now we're a country infested with nanny-state and busy-body types seeking to prevent others from enjoying things they don't like, even when another's enjoyment has zero impact on them.

Public high schools, colleges and universities are churning these anti liberty, government-knows-best types out by the thousands.

I agree, you sort of people are on the way out

Violence , guns, wars, insurrection, secession, slavery and the crushing heel of religion etc etc etc ..it's all on the slide, there is a black man and a black family living in your white house and using the white's toilets

No wonder you people are filled with hatred and just want to murder other Americans including lawfully elected politicians and your commander in chief and head of state in order to get back to the horrible American past which you call your proud history instead of being proud of the liberal minded progress that has been made:

No slavery

votes for women

abortion

Social security

Medicare

Medicaid

Environmental Protection

etc etc time a thousand

The whole direction of America is one way and is against your sort and ever more shall be so, and the crusty, violent reactionaries are getting fewer and fewer and weaker and less relevant every passing year.

Good riddance to them and to their horrible way of thinking

1776 is long gone, so face your new "European style" and evolved future and stop being bitter and nostalgic for the nasty part of American history

You are beaten but you can't accept it

Edited November 17, 2011 by Ashud Cocoa

[kytwell 179]

There is no way you get get to kill the elected politicians you so despise - elected under the laws you purport to support, without killing US military personnel

Wrong! Think of the assassinations and the attempts over the last decades, I can't recall any soldiers shooting the perps or vice versa. As a matter of fact with the exception of Oswald, most are in prison.

What is wrong with you people ? No wonder you are on here all day long and don't have jobs.

I gots me'z an ed-u-mi-cation, so I canz sits in front of this here computer at work and getz me self paidz very well for it.

Edited November 17, 2011 by kytwell

[Captain Oates 911]

Wrong! Think of the assassinations and the attempts over the last decades, I can't recall any soldiers shooting the perps or vice versa. As a matter of fact with the exception of Oswald, most are in prison.

You seem to be suggesting that the Military/police are on the side of militias and home grown (white) terrorists

What about Timothy McVeigh. You know, your sort of Citizen ?

He was executed by us

One to us and non to you

Lee Oswald was killed by one of your sort (Jack Ruby) but Oswald was a 'kill the president' sort of guy like you. You must really admire him (apart from him being communist)

Two to us - non to you

The unibomber is in a crazy cell for life

3 to us - non to you

Gabby Giffords would be assassin inspired by Palin's target chart is in in prison forever

4 to us - non to you

You 1776 crazies are consistent losers when it comes right down to it - every time

Just like the Germans have won the peace in Europe, The British have won the peace in the USA and American society gets more and more British-like in it's socially responsible and liberal ideas with every passing decade

Its excellent news for enlightened and kind Americans, but the end of the line for the three-cornered hat nasty brigade and tea party crazies

America has both glorious and horrible histories - the tricorns embrace the worst aspects of America and are willing to fight the best aspects by the use of murder of their own.

Long may they continue to be pathetic losers

[kytwell 179]

There is no way you get get to kill the elected politicians you so despise - elected under the laws you purport to support, without killing US military personnel

This was what I quoted. And is what I replied to. Don't go twisting the debate to fit your viewpoint. You were wrong. Admit it, it lends you some credibility in further interactions. McVeigh, Unabomber, Giffords attempt...etc, etc are/were all (for the most part)the acts by solitary whackos. I don't condone any of their actions, to kill or attempt to kill innocent people b/c of their failure to effectively deal with adversity in their own personal lives.

You seem to be suggesting that the Military/police are on the side of militias and home grown (white) terrorists

Where did you see me write anything of this nature? Are you saying by proxy then that they would be on the side of those in office? For as right as some whackos are on here there are an equal amount to the left.

And what's this us verse you sh!t? IDK if I can include you or not, but last I checked we are all Americans first. Then white, black, atheist, religious, left, right, middle or a to the extreme fringe whacko.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

But by different qualifications, yet your license is valid in any of them even though you may not qualify for a license in the state you are driving through. The new law does not apply to states that do not issue concealed carry licenses or allow concealed carry(Illinois and DC)

Is that the case with marriage licenses? Do all states recognize same sex licenses?

[Captain Oates 911]

This was what I quoted. And is what I replied to. Don't go twisting the debate to fit your viewpoint. You were wrong. Admit it, it lends you some credibility in further interactions. McVeigh, Unabomber, Giffords attempt...etc, etc are/were all (for the most part)the acts by solitary whackos. I don't condone any of their actions, to kill or attempt to kill innocent people b/c of their failure to effectively deal with adversity in their own personal lives.

Where did you see me write anything of this nature? Are you saying by proxy then that they would be on the side of those in office? For as right as some whackos are on here there are an equal amount to the left.

And what's this us verse you sh!t? IDK if I can include you or not, but last I checked we are all Americans first. Then white, black, atheist, religious, left, right, middle or a to the extreme fringe whacko.

I really can't follow you and feel like I need clarification.

I say that people who own guns, where part of their motive is to use violence to change the government, are simply fantasists and worse than that, they actually encourage people like McVeigh by seeking to make it valid in the mainstream of society

I say that the US government has never been changed by patriots murdering their politicians.

Politicians are regularly murdered, but the VP uses the opportunity to push even more liberal ideas - eg LBJ and civil rights

These murderous patriots always lose and the country goes the opposite way to what they wanted.. Furthermore, as an avid gun owner since the age of 13, I think these political crazies are going to cause the government having to restrict guns - my guns

Think you are protected by the constitution ? Think Again. Look at Illinois gun laws

That is my position. I believe the 'kill the politicians' motive, in a democracy, is invalid, wrong and immoral AND counter-productive

Remind me - what part of that do you take issue with ?