Concealed weapons permits cross state lines.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

But Arizona and Alaska outrank California. How can that possibly be?

Other factors not related to guns, obviously. Such factors cannot be addressed with gun laws or by eliminating concealed carry.

Arizona and Alaska bith had reductions in crime when they introdcued concealed carry, how is that a bad thing? Now they have both eliminated permits (just recently) and we will see if they have a further reduction oin crime.

They may both always outrank California but if their crime is reduced, what's the problem?

Relative rankings mean nothing in terms of the effectiveness of a law. The way to compare the issue is very simple.

what were the crime rates (per 100,000) for the five years preceding the implementation of CCW and what were the crime rates for the 5 years after implementing CCW?

IN EVERY CASE the crime rates for the 5 years after implementation were lower. They may or may not have been lower than California...that does not matter. Crime was reduced in each state where it was implemented.

Would anyone who opposes concealed carry like to tell me why they do not use that comparison and instead use meaningless data?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Dodge. Typical.

We are to believe that the FBI Uniform Crime Report is wrong, the legislatures of 49 states plus the governors of those states are wrong, NONE have figured this out and repealed concealed carry because only a select few know that concealed carry actually increases crime.

Nope. It's just you Gary. Most people want to make the world safer for their families, not make it easier for strangers to endanger their lives. You keep throwing out all these conjectures out without bothering to to source them. Perhaps you should take the time to learn how to cut and post excerpts, as well as link the sources, like educated, computer literate people do.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Crusty Old Perv

[Leatherneck 693]

Keeping criminals locked up also drops the crime rate, but since they eventually get released

those that wish to be armed should be allowed and those that do not, well, no one is forcing them

to be armed.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Other factors not related to guns, obviously. Such factors cannot be addressed with gun laws or by eliminating concealed carry.

Arizona and Alaska bith had reductions in crime when they introdcued concealed carry, how is that a bad thing? Now they have both eliminated permits (just recently) and we will see if they have a further reduction oin crime.

They may both always outrank California but if their crime is reduced, what's the problem?

Relative rankings mean nothing in terms of the effectiveness of a law. The way to compare the issue is very simple.

what were the crime rates (per 100,000) for the five years preceding the implementation of CCW and what were the crime rates for the 5 years after implementing CCW?

IN EVERY CASE the crime rates for the 5 years after implementation were lower. They may or may not have been lower than California...that does not matter. Crime was reduced in each state where it was implemented.

Would anyone who opposes concealed carry like to tell me why they do not use that comparison and instead use meaningless data?

I'd love to see some of these chair side lib nubs fly to a village without a gun out here after it just got a shipment of bootlegged booze in. Your white, no gun, and their drunk...kiss your white ####### good bye for the fact your going to get the beat down of your life. Put a few rounds in the air with a hog leg and it sobers them up d@amn quick like.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have posted this before, it is NOT merely my opinion based on facts and famtasies I merely WISH were true.

Dangers of Permissive Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Laws

Shall-issue laws permitting the carrying of concealed firearms (CCW) (where law enforcement has no discretion in issuing a permit or license) do not appear to reduce crime, and no credible statistical evidence exists that such permissive CCW laws reduce crime. There is evidence permissive CCW laws generally will increase crime.59

A National Academy of Sciences report reviewing existing data on the effectiveness of firearm laws, including research purporting to demonstrate that concealed carry (also called “right-to-carry”) laws reduce crime, found that the “evidence to date does not adequately indicate either the sign or the magnitude of a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.”60

An analysis of Texas’ CCW law, (a law adopted in 1995 that overturned the state’s 125-year ban on concealed weapons), found that between January 1, 1996 and August 31, 2001, Texas license holders were arrested for 5,314 crimes, including murder, rape, kidnapping and theft.61

From 1996 to 2000, Texas CCW holders were arrested for weapons-related crimes at a rate 81% higher than that of the state’s general population age 21 and older.62

Since the Texas law took effect, more than 400 criminals – including rapists and armed robbers – had been issued CCW permits, and thousands of the 215,000 permit holders have been arrested for criminal behavior or found to be mentally unstable.63 The “largest category of problem licensees involve[d] those who committed crimes after getting their state” permits.64

Florida’s CCW system had, just in the first half of 2006, licensed more than 1,400 individuals who had pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 individuals with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions against them, and six registered sex offenders.65

For additional information about the carrying of concealed weapons, including information on the dangers posed by carrying guns in public, see LCAV’s Report America Caught in the Crossfire: How Concealed Carry Laws Threaten Public Safety and our Carrying Concealed Weapons Policy Summary.

Once again, sorry gun nuts. Reality bites!

Why not use FBI Uniform Crime Report Data?

Are you seriously expecting us to believe that the legislatures of 49 states do not know this and that none of them have repealed their law?

This "report" does not even cite a source for its "data" To say "Texas has...blah blah blah" without a source, seriously? Who did the analysis?

I cite FBY Uniform Crime Report Statistics. EVERY state that implemented concealed carry experienced a reduction in crime rates after implementation. Period. This is just unfounded BS.

But back to Reality...

49 states have concealed carry where just 25 years ago only 5 did. You lost the argument, no one believed you and CCW has been implemented almost everywhere. Several states have made their licensing process easier or simply eliminated lienses altogether.

38 states already have reciprocity of licenses, PLUS Vermont, Arizona and Alaska which do not require licenses so anyone can carry a gun (you do not have to be a resident of the state)

The National Reciprocity Act will pass, maybe not this year, but it will.

The Assualt Weapons Ban is dead

Frivoulous lawsuits against gun manufacturers have been ended

Heller and McDonald insured the 2nd Amendment

Edited November 21, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

...no one is forcing them to be armed.

Just the wackos that want to carry weapons for the sake of carrying weapons. (See escalation and disarmament.)

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Nope. It's just you Gary. Most people want to make the world safer for their families, not make it easier for strangers to endanger their lives. You keep throwing out all these conjectures out without bothering to to source them. Perhaps you should take the time to learn how to cut and post excerpts, as well as link the sources, like educated, computer literate people do.

So let's you and I discuss this. I am not going to post any links, for one thing I never do, not for just this issue but for any. I do not use my time for that and never have and never will. I use my own words and do not cut and paste. I do not care what you think of that. I do not have any need or desire to show you or anyone else that I am educated or computer literate, frankly I do not give a damn because it has no affect on me one way or the other. I am loooooooong past caring about any such nonsense. I AM the source of my posts and if you think I am wrong then YOU can waste your time posting links to prove me wrong. If that somehow reduces my credibility in your eyes or someone else's, I do not care.

I am on the "winning side" regardless of what you think. The laws have been passed, the reciprocity is in place for 41 states and nearly all the gun legislation on my wish list has been implemented in the last few years. So I am happy and feel no need to post data that makes no difference in my life.

You do not like people having guns/carrying guns/whatever. Too bad for you, as it does not matter what you like. I could post 80,000 pages of data and you would still not like people carrying guns, so what would I have accomplished by wasting my time? Would it satisfy you? No. Would it change your mind? No. Do I NEED to change your mind? No. Does it matter if you change your mind? No.

Now if you would like to deny that 49 states have concealed carry or that the AWB died in 2004 or the Heller and Mcdonald decisions do not exist, then say so.

The reciprocity law will pass, just like the FOPA of '86 passed eventually. The NRA will not go away, there are more Supreme Court decisions to come. All in good time, all in good time.

I live in a beautiful place, where I can carry a gun anywhere and enjoy a virtually crime free environment, go trout fishing, spend the afternoon shooting with my beautiful wife who is also an excellent markswoman, go skiing (soon! Alla says we will take up CC skiing this year, we will see) I don't need to post links.

For now, I am very happy with the situation, how about you?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So let's you and I discuss this. I am not going to post any links,

Then, you are not to be taken seriously, and I don't.

[Robert&Karen 264]

What about cops that commit crimes?

http://www.policeone.com/corrections/articles/1987209-Minn-cop-accused-of-robberies-called-a-disgrace-to-the-badge/

If Crusty wants to get rid of CCW because of a few bad apples, we must also eliminate every police force in the country too since they too have bad apples.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Then, you are not to be taken seriously, and I don't.

[Leatherneck 693]

Just the wackos that want to carry weapons for the sake of carrying weapons. (See escalation and disarmament.)

And how so are you forced?

Gun wiennies never have to arm themslves, you're amongst concealed carry folks and you're not even aware of it.

Those guys wearing fanny packs around their waist aren't doing so just to have more room to store the spare change.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,236]

See Gary, you and I can buy our guns off a street corner, tuck them inside our coat pocket and walk down that street legally like men. But in the Peoples Republic of California only Swiss Knives with blades no longer than 4" are allowed.

True,

but we have temperatures in the 60s and 70s and sunshine, pretty much every "winter" day. Although I would get a conceil-and-carry permit if I could -- just because -- given the choice to freeze with a gun in Alaska or to enjoy outside activities without a firearm in my holster in sunny Southern California I choose the latter one.

But everyone his own. I'm a huge fan of Vermont's up-and-coming "socialized" healthcare, but not enough to put up with the horrible weather -- yet.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

And how so are you forced?

Gun wiennies never have to arm themslves, you're amongst concealed carry folks and you're not even aware of it.

Those guys wearing fanny packs around their waist aren't doing so just to have more room to store the spare change.

I think rather those that feel they have to pack something extra "just in case" are the ones suffer those inadequacies. Not all those that own firearms feel the need to take them with them everywhere they go, nor do they suffer such "performance anxieties".

You wear a fanny pack? Charles! will be by later to pick up your man card.

[SuperDuper! 230]

Lone Ranger was the best....C.O.P. is awkward.

Carry a .45 ACP to overcome it.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Lone Ranger was the best....C.O.P. is awkward.

Carry a .45 ACP to overcome it.

Now that is pathetic.