Concealed weapons permits cross state lines.

[Robert&Karen 264]

Well thats the topic isn't it? That all states are to be forced to recognize CCW from other states.

No states are arguing the definition of firearm. They are however arguing the definition of marriage.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

No states are arguing the definition of firearm. They are however arguing the definition of marriage.

Red Herring, a license is a license.

[Robert&Karen 264]

Red Herring, a license is a license.

You have to qualify for the license first. What about age for a marriage license? Here in California you need to be 18 but in Connecticut you have to be 16. Is that not discriminatory on the same basis as gender?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

In Florida, cars have no front license plate and I see rental cars here from Florida

There must be some exemption otherwise they would be committing an offense all over the place

I use to live in Florida but I didn't do it in order to associate with the like minded in order to form a ghetto of clones because that causes exclusion rather than inclusion. I did it for the dolphins and direct flights Manchester UK -Tampa

I don't define diversity as a collection of various undiversified pockets of the like-minded who resent outsider's values, and the gov agree with me and that is why pupils are bussed.

Unfortunately, agreeing with the Federal Government is not popular, but this proposed law law has the advantage of preventing us being classed as felons if we stray down the road

Right.

Yes you can drive a car from Florida with one plate in any state, but if you move there and register it there you will need two plates if that is what that state requires. A Vermont police officer cannot give a Florida resident a ticket for having only one license plate. nor a resident of Quebec, a foreign country, for that matter.

Sousuke's friend was screwed out of his money and he allowed it to happen.

why should a person who is fully in compliance...a law abiding citizen...become a felon if he crosses a state line with no warning signs and not even much notice he is going into another state?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The current DOMA says NO, a same sex marriage is not legal in all states. That is being challenged. An unconstitutional law is no reason for other unconstitutional laws.

I suppose not. I'm not entirely convinced that the 2nd amendment allows for concealed weapons, just as the 1st doesn't protect all speech.

Right.

Yes you can drive a car from Florida with one plate in any state, but if you move there and register it there you will need two plates if that is what that state requires. A Vermont police officer cannot give a Florida resident a ticket for having only one license plate. nor a resident of Quebec, a foreign country, for that matter.

Sousuke's friend was screwed out of his money and he allowed it to happen.

why should a person who is fully in compliance...a law abiding citizen...become a felon if he crosses a state line with no warning signs and not even much notice he is going into another state?

Yeah seems that way, though it probably would have cost more getting to the courthouse than paying the fine.

You have to qualify for the license first. What about age for a marriage license? Here in California you need to be 18 but in Connecticut you have to be 16. Is that not discriminatory on the same basis as gender?

Does California recognize a 16 year old's couples marriage in Connecticut? I would assume it would.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Sousuke

[Robert&Karen 264]

I suppose not. I'm not entirely convinced that the 2nd amendment allows for concealed weapons, just as the 1st doesn't protect all speech.

It allows us to bear (carry) arms. Whether they are concealed or not is a different matter. In fact in California a past attempt to go to SHALL ISSUE for permits was denied as we have Open carry as a protection option. Now that Open carry is outlawed effective 1/1/12, we shall see what becomes of the current MAY ISSUE status.

Does California recognize a 16 year old's couples marriage in Connecticut? I would assume it would.

I don't know. Would the US recognize a marriage to more than one spouse that they do in other countries, or marriages to the underage? We recognize other marriages that fit within our standards though. Is this not unfair?

Edited November 18, 2011 by Robert&Karen

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

It allows us to bear (carry) arms. Whether they are concealed or not is a different matter. In fact in California a past attempt to go to SHALL ISSUE for permits was denied as we have Open carry as a protection option. Now that Open carry is outlawed effective 1/1/12, we shall see what becomes of the current MAY ISSUE status.

Yeah, I mean I suppose at the Federal level there should be a restriction on banning loaded firearms in public places. Therefore, a state could ban conceal carry, but allow loaded open carry or visa versa but not ban both.

I don't know. Would the US recognize a marriage to more than one spouse that they do in other countries, or marriages to the underage? We recognize other marriages that fit within our standards though. Is this not unfair?

Thats a different question because it involves other countries.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You have to qualify for the license first. What about age for a marriage license? Here in California you need to be 18 but in Connecticut you have to be 16. Is that not discriminatory on the same basis as gender?

The Connecticut license would be valid in CA. If 16 year olds hitchhiked to Connecticut, got married and hitchhiked back they are still married.

It is somewhat different than CCW just as it is somewhat different than drivers licenses. It is not practical to require people to get married again every time they move to another state though I suppose a state could do that. States recoginze a marriage as a lifetime commitment, whereas other licenses have expirations and renewals.

Marriage licenses are really not the best comparison for CCW anyway, as it is not the intent of the federal law to require a state to honor an out of state CCW indefinitely, only for temporary travel. I made the comparison only to show that states do currently have reciprocity.

The best comparison is simply to note that 38 of the 49 states with concealed carry already allow for reciprocity and it is 38 of the 41 that have non-discretionary concealed carry. By far most state already do this. If you have a Florida CCW you can drive with your concealed handgun all the way from Florida to the California border on Interstate 10 as a law abiding citizen and then become a felon when you enter California. THAT is stupid.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I suppose not. I'm not entirely convinced that the 2nd amendment allows for concealed weapons, just as the 1st doesn't protect all speech.

Yeah seems that way, though it probably would have cost more getting to the courthouse than paying the fine.

Does California recognize a 16 year old's couples marriage in Connecticut? I would assume it would.

Yeah, then we fall back to the 10th amendment. The 2nd amendment may or may not cover concealed weapons (I am not entering that argument now, not necessary) but it certainly does not disallow it. Read the tenth amendment. It then becomes a state's issue...which it is handled as now. So far, so good. The federal government has the authrity to regulate interstate commerce and the transport of firearms from one state to another is already well established as a responsibility of the feds, or one they can at least regulate. This law simply requires ANY state that issues concealed permits to recognize the concealed permits issued by other states on a temporary basis for perosn traveling/visiting in their state

Your friend made an economic decision not to challenge the oppression of his rights in court, that does not make it "the law" or "legal"

Yes, California would recognize the marriage.

Yeah, I mean I suppose at the Federal level there should be a restriction on banning loaded firearms in public places. Therefore, a state could ban conceal carry, but allow loaded open carry or visa versa but not ban both.

why? It is proven that concealed carry prevents crime, why would the feds want to ban it? Why would anyone?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You have to qualify for the license first. What about age for a marriage license? Here in California you need to be 18 but in Connecticut you have to be 16. Is that not discriminatory on the same basis as gender?

Connecticut wouldn't be as the rule is the same for males and females but Mass. and Delaware yes! I'm surprised that they have different ages for men and women. 14 for boys and 12 for girls. That is both crazy young and descriminitory.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Sousuke

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Your friend made an economic decision not to challenge the oppression of his rights in court, that does not make it "the law" or "legal"

why? It is proven that concealed carry prevents crime, why would the feds want to ban it? Why would anyone?

No he made a naive decision. At the time we both though we had to pay and that it was the law. Only now do I realize that was incorrect. In hindsight though it was still cheaper to pay.

On the second point, I was only refering to the fact that the Federal government might want to protect citizen's rights to bearing arms in a public place if that makes sense by requiring a state to allow one option or the other but not blocking both.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't know. Would the US recognize a marriage to more than one spouse that they do in other countries, or marriages to the underage? We recognize other marriages that fit within our standards though. Is this not unfair?

Simple answer. Nothing in the US constitution requires the US to accept anything done in a foriegn country, basically "who gives a rat's @ss?" The US can CHOOSE to recognize whatever they want regarding a foreign marriage. The US government does not regulate marriage within the US, except with the recent DOMA which is being challenged, in any case.

It so happens that ALL states forbid polygamy, some more diligently than others. But that just happens to be a consistency on state laws. SInce no state allows polygamy it is not an issue for reciprocity of marriage licenses between states.

DOMA as it relates to homosexual marriage is being challenged by people that know more about it than I do, so I will let them handle that.

Getting hung up on the marriage comparison would be a mistake though.

[Leatherneck 693]

When I emigrated to the USA and later became a citizen, I did not have to sign a document so say I would be subservient to the ideas of those whose family arrived before me

My ideas are consistent with the majority of US voters who voted for O - and yours are not. You are in a minority and need to get used to that

I am fully entitled to my opinions and if I want the US to be more like the UK in some regards then I sure wouldn't be alone. In fact as far as social security and medicare and medicaid and civil rights and votes for women and no slavery, all of which were enacted first in the UK and then followed in the US, I am part of a huge majority

Virtually all of the social progress in the USA and most of the constitution (bill of rights 1689) is a direct steal from the UK

Its the same with socialized medicine

The US has been heading in the direction of the UK as far as social policy is concerned since 1861 and it is unstoppable

You are entitled to your backward looking views, but don't try and say that my view is that of a lonesome foreign outsider interloper - because my views are the views of the American majority - and yours are not

You need to adjust to the new reality and in the words of Bob Dylan

Come mothers and fathers all over this land

And don't criticize what you can't understand

Your sons and your daughter are beyond your command

Your old role is rapidly aging

Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand

For the times they are a changing

Since you have no idea what my views are, let me share a few of them with you.

1. A Smaller less bloated, tax eating federal government

2. A federal government that operates within the 18 enumerated powers as prescribed in Article 1. Sec.8 of the Constitution

3. A federal government that respects and abides by Article 9 and Article 10 of the Constitution

4. A federal government that shows the same reverence for Article 2 as it does for Article 1

Now, if you think my views are so "backward looking" because I support Constitutional government as prescribed in the Constitution, then you might want to double check the oath you took when you naturalized. You swore to support the same Constitution that is the source of my "backward looking views."

Oh, and liberals are not the majority in this country. America is a center-right country, not center-left, left or socialist. However, the progressives (both parties) are doing their damnest to change that and make this country closer to your "European style" liking.

[Captain Oates 911]

Since you have no idea what my views are, let me share a few of them with you.

1. A Smaller less bloated, tax eating federal government

2. A federal government that operates within the 18 enumerated powers as prescribed in Article 1. Sec.8 of the Constitution

3. A federal government that respects and abides by Article 9 and Article 10 of the Constitution

4. A federal government that shows the same reverence for Article 2 as it does for Article 1

Now, if you think my views are so "backward looking" because I support Constitutional government as prescribed in the Constitution, then you might want to double check the oath you took when you naturalized. You swore to support the same Constitution that is the source of my "backward looking views."

Oh, and liberals are not the majority in this country. America is a center-right country, not center-left, left or socialist. However, the progressives (both parties) are doing their damnest to change that and make this country closer to your "European style" liking.

The Constitution changes all the time as you well know..and sometimes it changes back again as in prohibition.

Swearing to uphold the constitution means the constitution as it is at the time - and pushing for it to be changed is a valid thing to do and nobody can stop me

The nativists always see the constitution like the ten commandments which never change - that's why people don't like me coveting oxes so I don't do it.

If the right majorities are in place, even making Spanish the official language is quite constitutional and I have the books !

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

No he made a naive decision. At the time we both though we had to pay and that it was the law. Only now do I realize that was incorrect. In hindsight though it was still cheaper to pay.

On the second point, I was only refering to the fact that the Federal government might want to protect citizen's rights to bearing arms in a public place if that makes sense by requiring a state to allow one option or the other but not blocking both.

Ok, I will accept your more forgiving version of his decision.

I see what you mean in the other point, OK. I misunderstood.

I would not really be in favor of such a law. Open carry has had little if any affect on reducing crime. Many states had/have open carry, long before they had concealed carry. Missouri, Kentucky, Georgia, Wisconsin, just to name a few. No affect on crime (good or bad) Pass concealed carry a crime drops markedly. Why? Because really only a relatively few people carry concealed.

The reason is that it is KNOWN people carry guns, but it is not known WHO is carrying them. THAT is the deterrent, the "force multiplier" that discourages crime. we have 49 states of proof on this.

One of the best was Florida

When they passed their law in 1986 it first applied ONLY to residents of Florida. There was shift in crime from Floridians to tourists. Why? Because tourists drive rented cars with the word "lease" on the license plate. Criminals were waiting for them outside airports, "bumping" ther cars to create a minor accident and then robbing the people when they got out to look at the damage. It was getting crazy! The tourist had money and did NOT have guns. what did Florida do? It took the word "lease" off the license plates to stop identifying tourists AND started issuing concealed carry permits to non-residents VOILA!!!!!!! No more robberies. BUT no tourists shot would be robbers on interstate 75 either! How many tourists do you think had concealed carry permits? 1 in 1000? 1 in 5000?

It is absolutely, without question, proven...concealed carry reduces crime and saves lives, open carry does not. Furthermore, concealed carry is proven to have the greatest benefit for elderly and women as they experience the largest reduction in crime when these laws are passed. Simply because they are the people who become less vulnerable when they carry a gun, it is the "equalizer"

Concealed weapons do not reduce crime by being whisked from under your coat and blasting robbers on main street in front of Ben & Jerrys. You are not going to lose your gun in a struggle to a robber who would otherwise have only taken your money Seriously?

Concealed weapons reduce crime BY being concealed.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Gary and Alla