Common-Sense Firearms Laws

[Ban Hammer 13,332]

Americans, being gun enthusiasts, have always favored a precision and accurate rifle. This takes a lot more work and production time and cost but it was always the way since our first official rifle, the 1803 Springfield.

1803 springfield?

The first U.S. regulation rifle, the Model 1803 was manufactured at Harpers Ferry Armory. Early models were produced between 1803 and 1807, with production resuming in 1814 and continuing until 1820. This example was produced in 1815.

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[Gary and Alla 3,694]

1803 springfield?

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I will not debate the point too much. Perhaps I should simply refer to it as the M1803" The point being the US always favored precision arms and admired the craft of the rifleman.

These were patterned after the French Model 1763 Charleville musket, and were the first standardized U.S. martial arms. Springfield Armory also produced a Model 1795 musket, but these were distinctly different from those manufactured at Harpers Ferry.

In the early 19th century, Harpers Ferry began production of the Model 1803 flintlock rifle. These distinctive arms, with their Kentucky styling and half forestock, are considered by some to the most beautiful rifles ever produced by the United States government. The Model 1816 was first standardized U.S. martial arm to be manufactured at both Harpers Ferry and Springfield. These arms enjoyed the longest production run in U.S. history, lasting until 1844, with nearly 700,000 muskets turned out during this period. Both armories also produced the Model 1842 percussion musket and Model 1855 percussion rifle-musket.

Edited November 15, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[xebec 195]

It's a pretty ####### gun if you don't mind me saying so

The caliber is for spraying what are basically 30 caliber shorts

Not a precision rifle

Sounds like you are:

A) Parroting typical generalizations bandied about on gun boards and in gun magazines, written by people who have no idea what they are talking about.... yawn

B) Need to learn how to shoot

or

C) Both

Every one of mine can hit a torso sized target at 300 meters. That's what rifles of this type need to be capable of. Admittedly, I traded for one once (a Romanian WUM in 7.62x39) that couldn't do it, so I got rid of the thing. Certain AK variants are consistently more accurate that the average AKM....AK-74s generally are quite accurate, and the Yugoslavian M90s in 5.56x45 (like the two of mine amongst the rifles pictured below), are as accurate as any military AR I ever used.

Some of my eastern beauties....

Aks by xebec1, on Flickr

Edited November 15, 2011 by xebec

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Sounds like you are:

A) Parroting typical generalizations bandied about on gun boards and in gun magazines, written by people who have no idea what they are talking about.... yawn

B) Need to learn how to shoot

or

C) Both

Every one of mine can hit a torso sized target at 300 meters. That's what rifles of this type need to be capable of. Admittedly, I traded for one once (a Romanian WUM in 7.62x39) that couldn't do it, so I got rid of the thing. Certain AK variants are consistently more accurate that the average AKM....AK-74s generally are quite accurate, and the Yugoslavian M90s in 5.56x45 (like the two of mine amongst the rifles pictured below), are as accurate as any military AR I ever used.

Some of my eastern beauties....

Aks by xebec1, on Flickr

Don'tcha just LOVE RUB women!?

[slim 1,525]

Is the AR you snuck in there 5.45 or something?

My buddy tried to get me to convert because the ammo is so cheap. It's a wonderful round but I'm fighting the temptation to jump into yet another caliber. As I get more and more into the AKs though, it's not unlikely that I'll acquire a 74.

And what's your recommendation for the best RPK? I've long desired suppressive fire capability in an affordable platform and it seems like the RPK is the way to go. Any suggestions?

[xebec 195]

Is the AR you snuck in there 5.45 or something?

My buddy tried to get me to convert because the ammo is so cheap. It's a wonderful round but I'm fighting the temptation to jump into yet another caliber. As I get more and more into the AKs though, it's not unlikely that I'll acquire a 74.

And what's your recommendation for the best RPK? I've long desired suppressive fire capability in an affordable platform and it seems like the RPK is the way to go. Any suggestions?

It's actually a fairly run of the mill 5.56x45 AR... I built it up becuase I wasn't happy with the off-the-shelf ARs I have seen around...

The RPK is very cool...no doubt. But getting one is becoming increasingly difficult. The one in the picture is a pristine Romanian RPK kit I built on a Nodak receiver. Another option is the Yugoslavian M72- I think there are still parts kits floating around, maybe at Military gun supply or DPHarms....

[slim 1,525]

It's actually a fairly run of the mill 5.56x45 AR... I built it up becuase I wasn't happy with the off-the-shelf ARs I have seen around...

It just looks funny in this picture. "One of these things is not like the other. One of these things, doesn't belong. Can you guess which thing is not like the other by the time I finish this song?"

Which off-the-shelf ARs were you not happy with?

The RPK is very cool...no doubt. But getting one is becoming increasingly difficult. The one in the picture is a pristine Romanian RPK kit I built on a Nodak receiver. Another option is the Yugoslavian M72- I think there are still parts kits floating around, maybe at Military gun supply or DPHarms....

They are becoming increasingly difficult to find. I used to see them for sale all the time. Now, they're $699+ and only seen once in a blue moon.

[xebec 195]

It just looks funny in this picture. "One of these things is not like the other. One of these things, doesn't belong. Can you guess which thing is not like the other by the time I finish this song?"

Which off-the-shelf ARs were you not happy with?

They are becoming increasingly difficult to find. I used to see them for sale all the time. Now, they're $699+ and only seen once in a blue moon.

hehe...yeah, the poor ugly American chick in the beauty contest. The ARs that are commonly available (DPMS, Oly, Rock River, Double Star....like that) always seem to be lacking something that I want..This one has it all. Chrome lined 1/7, 5.56 NATO chamber, M4 cuts in the extension and lower, medium contour barrel (non-M4), F marked FSB, properly staked M16 bolt carrier, fully parkerized (under the fsb)- the works. I put everything I wanted on there, and nothing I didn't. There are certainly good off the shelf rifles available, like Sabre or Noveske....but I built this on some parts I already had, and simply bought what I needed. Oh, and I have a nice A1 stock on it...I hate the A2, and I'm not much of a fan of the M4 collapsibles.

Good luck on the RPK hunt....

Edited November 15, 2011 by xebec

[slim 1,525]

hehe...yeah, the poor ugly American chick in the beauty contest. The ARs that are commonly available (DPMS, Oly, Rock River, Double Star....like that) always seem to be lacking something that I want..This one has it all. Chrome lined 1/7, 5.56 NATO chamber, M4 cuts in the extension and lower, medium contour barrel (non-M4), F marked FSB, properly staked M16 bolt carrier, fully parkerized (under the fsb)- the works. I put everything I wanted on there, and nothing I didn't. There are certainly good off the shelf rifles available, like Sabre or Noveske....but I built this on some parts I already had, and simply bought what I needed. Oh, and I have a nice A1 stock on it...I hate the A2, and I'm not much of a fan of the M4 collapsibles.

1/2 the readers of this thread just said, "huh?"

Does 5/8" really matter? I can understand getting the "custom" gun you want but can you seriously feel the difference between the A1 and A2 stock? I guess I've shouldered so many rifles I don't notice that minute of an adjustment anymore.

Good luck on the RPK hunt....

Thanks. I'm going to need it. And, I'm thinking I better buy sooner rather than later.

I figure an RPK and a couple drums would be just perfect mounted on top my Jeep.

[xebec 195]

1/2 the readers of this thread just said, "huh?"

Does 5/8" really matter? I can understand getting the "custom" gun you want but can you seriously feel the difference between the A1 and A2 stock? I guess I've shouldered so many rifles I don't notice that minute of an adjustment anymore.

Thanks. I'm going to need it. And, I'm thinking I better buy sooner rather than later.

I figure an RPK and a couple drums would be just perfect mounted on top my Jeep.

Well, truthfully, I'm not I huge fan of the length of the A1 either, but I need a little more than the "Entry Gun" length. I am so accustomed to shouldering the AK, with quite short stocks and length of pull, that any added stock length puts me outside my comfort zone....The A2 is fine for shooting off the bench, but the more awkward the field shooting positions become, the more the problems of stock length manifest themselves. At least that's my experience...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

he's a rub man, there's no wondering about it.

Actually I bet the boys would love shooting one of those. They keep telling me the Ak is superior but they may be biased

At any rate, I would go with the AK for one of these "pistols" over one of the AR versions. Making it into a pistol would likely compromise its long range accuracy advantage so why not have a more powerful, larger caliber round? Maybe we need on in .50 Beowulf!

Anyway, it could be just the thing for concealed carry in winter here under an overcoat with that sling. Charge it up and go to Costco! It could be my new "winter shopping gun"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's a pretty ####### gun if you don't mind me saying so

The caliber is for spraying what are basically 30 caliber shorts

Not a precision rifle

Whats the point of having a Stalingrad rifle unless you are in Stalingrad ?

I have an Ar-15 Rock river Arms with 3x30 caliber mags and nikon scope

also a CZ 5,65mm Target rifle with a nikon scope

It' s great for annoying red necks - you leave a melon in front of your target, and when you hit it, it sprays evaporated melon all over their targets

Then I have 38 special+p pocket rocket for pit bulls/lions/bears/bandidos and a Ruger 22 target pistol and a CZ 22 LR target rifle - BSA sweet scope

I have just sold my 3 Lee Enfields - I need a scope and tight accuracy - but I need precision so I would not buy an AK unless I lived in Texas or South Carolina or Mississippi or somewhere else where there are lots of christians who hear voices telling them to eliminate foreign unbelievers

If your "pocket rocket" is a .38 special (even +p) it would explain why you are not married to a RUB woman.

I may just order up one of these from Gunbroker.com online for concealed carry for shopping in Burlington.

[slim 1,525]

The A2 is fine for shooting off the bench, but the more awkward the field shooting positions become, the more the problems of stock length manifest themselves. At least that's my experience...

You definitely can't run an A2 using the same grip in every position. It just won't work.

Dry fire practice is the answer. Gotta build that muscle memory, including stretching into positions and figuring out the best way to set up. My wife thinks I'm nuts but I like to get down on the floor while we're watching TV and do some funky positions, clear the rooms, all types of stuff.

You can't practice too much!

(Or you could just grab a better-fitting AK and call it a day!)

Anyway, it could be just the thing for concealed carry in winter here under an overcoat with that sling. Charge it up and go to Costco! It could be my new "winter shopping gun"

I really like it for driving. Since I can't keep loaded rifle mags in my vehicle, it's nice to have a "pistol" like this.

If your "pocket rocket" is a .38 special (even +p) it would explain why you are not married to a RUB woman.

That may be the funniest thing I've read all day!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Checking them out on Gunbroker.com there are a lot of these short rifles/pistols. Including one which is basically a pistol version of the HK91 in .308!!! THAT would be a handful!

The AKs seem the most affordable, no surprise there. Also an interesting version of the Russian PPs submachinegun in .30 Tokarev (7.62x25) I was always a bit fascinated by that gun as it was developed and originally built by people within the seige at Leningrad with available tools and materials. It has often been used as an argument that "even if you could ban ALL the guns, people would make them from available material"

Firearms are hardly "high tech" devices and can be made with relatively common tools in a garage or basement if necessary, certainly any machine shop can make high quality firearms.

The PPs later became the PPsH and was made by the millions and handed out to anyone that would point them and hose down the Germans with 9mm or 7.62x25 bullets. It would certainly qualify as an "historic" firearm.