Why Americans Won't Do Dirty Jobs

[Danno 1,228]

So you'd rather save some money and perpetuate poor working conditions? It's this exact reasoning that has led to such working conditions. Why should unskilled laborers not make a living wage?

Don't start with that living-wage #######.

People should get paid what the market will bear, using illegal labor should be heavily punished as is other methods to by-pass the lawful way to do business.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

[/b]

Don't start with that living-wage #######.

People should get paid what the market will bear, using illegal labor should be heavily punished as is other methods to by-pass the lawful way to do business.

Some people are pro slavery...the same people that are pro illegals.

[Ready to do it 101]

You can't compare one instance of poor supervision to an entire industry.

If the illegals aren't doing the work, and we were to double the wages of unskilled wages the prices will quadruple. Why? Double the wages and employ workers that are half as efficient. Can you imagine what paying $12 for a pound of strawberries at the supermarket will do to the middle class versus paying $3/pound. I know you are against illegals, but what you fail to realize is that the entire argument to get rid of illegals WILL absolutely wipe out the middle class. We can either let the poor 10% suffer (by keeping illegals) or we can fall into a society where the entire middle class becomes the poor. I personally prefer letting the bottom 10% suffer, so the 70% middle class does not.

Your one example was an isolated incident. You call it stealing. Is it any different than the millions of unskilled workers who refuse to pick berries for minimum wage and collect unemployment month after month? I call that stealing... and that is stealing from everyone who pays taxes... not just your grandparents.

You done much work on a farm? My grandparents made a living farming vegetables and fruit in Washington state. It was the Latino workers that stole them blind every chance they got. From filling flats full of green strawberries and covering them with ripe berries to stealing cases of fruit at night and selling it on the roadside two counties up.

Don't tell me about the efficiency of Latin workers and what farmers and customers should pay. If you don't know what your talking about, don't post about it.

[sandinista! 1,816]

In my dad's experience owning and running a small business for 30 years, that my grandparents ran for 25 years before that, the only people that stole from his business were white American citizens. What is your point, that only Latino workers steal? That your grandparents' farm is the only valid example out there?

You done much work on a farm? My grandparents made a living farming vegetables and fruit in Washington state. It was the Latino workers that stole them blind every chance they got. From filling flats full of green strawberries and covering them with ripe berries to stealing cases of fruit at night and selling it on the roadside two counties up.

Don't tell me about the efficiency of Latin workers and what farmers and customers should pay. If you don't know what your talking about, don't post about it.

[Ready to do it 101]

I'm not pro slavery. I'm pro keeping a middle class, and I know how to logically think about what the pros and cons are for society by having illegals in this country and what the consequences are by not having them in this country. You selflessly think about your own situation. I think of ways that benefit society as a whole.

Some people are pro slavery...the same people that are pro illegals.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I'm not pro slavery. I'm pro keeping a middle class, and I know how to logically think about what the pros and cons are for society by having illegals in this country and what the consequences are by not having them in this country. You selflessly think about your own situation. I think of ways that benefit society as a whole.

Your pro slavery and you make me sick to my stomach. Then posting this ####### on a legal immigration site to boot. You know how much money farmers make? My grandparents and every farmer within 20 miles of them made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year after paying their over head so you can save your bs for some slimy pro illegal site that's buying your spiel.

If you have to pay a few more dollars at the check stand then so be it, but save your pro illegal and pro slavery bs for the brain dead.

[Ready to do it 101]

If you want to refute my stance at least refute it with factual information. Time after time, you bash the idea of having illegals, support killing them, etc and do not provide any reference to how that helps solve anything. I'm all ears for hearing how getting rid of illegals would actually help our society. You've never provided a single ounce of reasoning. Your posts are all about hatred for a certain class, nothing more and nothing less.

Your pro slavery and you make me sick to my stomach. Then posting this ####### on a legal immigration site to boot. You know how much money farmers make? My grandparents and every farmer within 20 miles of them made hundreds of thousands of dollars a year after paying their over head so you can save your bs for some slimy pro illegal site that's buying your spiel.

If you have to pay a few more dollars at the check stand then so be it, but save your pro illegal and pro slavery bs for the brain dead.

[kytwell 179]

One of the big talking points that pro-immigration groups make is that our food prices would be much higher if the US did not tolerate the flow of illegal immigrants into the country to work in agriculture. They argue that no American would do the work the illegal immigrants do for the wages they make. It is a myth.

First of all, agriculture is not a labor intensive business. The US supplies all the food it needs, plus exports billion of dollars to other countries, using very few people. In 1870, between 70% and 80% of the US population worked in agriculture. Today, less than 1% of the population works in agriculture. At last count there were only 821,000 people in the US employed in agriculture. This is out of a total civilian workforce of 153,904,000. There are 312,000,000 people in the US and these 821,000 workers produce enough to feed everybody, plus export food to the rest of the world. By 2018, agricultural employment in the US is expected to decrease to 804,400, even though the US population will be increasing.

Here is why. In 1945 it took 14 man-hours to produce 100 bushels of corn on 2 acres of land. By 1987, it took less than 3 man-hours to produce the same 100 bushels of corn on a little more than 1-acre of land. In 2002, the same 100-bushels of corn were produced on less than 1-acre of land. Productivity has reduced the demand for agricultural labor, and made labor more efficient.

An average household currently spends about $370 per year on fruits and vegetables. If curtailing illegal alien agricultural labor caused tighter labor conditions and a 40 percent increase in wages, the increased cost to the American family would be $9 a year, or about 2.5 cents per day. Yet for the farm laborer, the change would mean an increase in earnings from $17,600 to $24,640 per 2000-hour work year. That increase would move the worker from beneath the federal poverty line to above it. In fact, the salary would be higher than the median salary paid by Walmart.

The cost of labor is a very small component of food. Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples, or $1 for a head of lettuce, are giving 16 to 19 cents to the farmer and 5 to 6 cents to the farm worker.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fulano_de_tal/2011/aug/18/the-myth-of-illegal-immigration-and-food-prices/

It would help too, if most Americans had their own gardens. And eat what's available in season. Cantaloupes in February are imported. So eat seasonal foods, it requires adjusting what most are accustomed to, but it worked for 100's of years prior.

Edited November 12, 2011 by kytwell

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

One of the big talking points that pro-immigration groups make is that our food prices would be much higher if the US did not tolerate the flow of illegal immigrants into the country to work in agriculture. They argue that no American would do the work the illegal immigrants do for the wages they make. It is a myth.

First of all, agriculture is not a labor intensive business. The US supplies all the food it needs, plus exports billion of dollars to other countries, using very few people. In 1870, between 70% and 80% of the US population worked in agriculture. Today, less than 1% of the population works in agriculture. At last count there were only 821,000 people in the US employed in agriculture. This is out of a total civilian workforce of 153,904,000. There are 312,000,000 people in the US and these 821,000 workers produce enough to feed everybody, plus export food to the rest of the world. By 2018, agricultural employment in the US is expected to decrease to 804,400, even though the US population will be increasing.

Here is why. In 1945 it took 14 man-hours to produce 100 bushels of corn on 2 acres of land. By 1987, it took less than 3 man-hours to produce the same 100 bushels of corn on a little more than 1-acre of land. In 2002, the same 100-bushels of corn were produced on less than 1-acre of land. Productivity has reduced the demand for agricultural labor, and made labor more efficient.

An average household currently spends about $370 per year on fruits and vegetables. If curtailing illegal alien agricultural labor caused tighter labor conditions and a 40 percent increase in wages, the increased cost to the American family would be $9 a year, or about 2.5 cents per day. Yet for the farm laborer, the change would mean an increase in earnings from $17,600 to $24,640 per 2000-hour work year. That increase would move the worker from beneath the federal poverty line to above it. In fact, the salary would be higher than the median salary paid by Walmart.

The cost of labor is a very small component of food. Consumers who pay $1 for a pound of apples, or $1 for a head of lettuce, are giving 16 to 19 cents to the farmer and 5 to 6 cents to the farm worker.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/fulano_de_tal/2011/aug/18/the-myth-of-illegal-immigration-and-food-prices/

It would also help to, if most Americans had their own gardens. And eat what's available in season. Cantaloupes in February are imported. So eat seasonal foods, it requires adjusting what most are accustomed to, but it worked for 100's of years prior.

[Ready to do it 101]

If it's a myth, then I guess all these articles about farmers in Alabama stating that no one will take the jobs that the illegals have left behind are all myths as well. I guess it's also going to be a myth when many states start going bankrupt as well because of the outflow of illegal immigrants. It's already starting. Domino effect is about to occur. The states that boot illegals are all going to be the states that are worst off.

The solution is keep illegals, and end all social programs. Equality for all. It really is the solution to our domestic problems. Sure, the poor that have no health insurance will suffer. At the end of the day, someone is going to have to suffer. The entire middle class? Our kids? Why shouldn't it be the poor, they want their cake and they want to eat it too. Sorry, it's ones own fault if they are not college educated or cannot adapt their own skills to a skill needed by society. I'm not for just supporting all these folks forever just because they didn't take the initiative to prepare for their own future.

They argue that no American would do the work the illegal immigrants do for the wages they make. It is a myth.

[kytwell 179]

We don't need illegals.

Edited November 12, 2011 by kytwell

[kytwell 179]

I'm all ears for hearing how getting rid of illegals would actually help our society.

Staggering Cost Of Illegal

Aliens In America

Taxpayers Taken To The Cleaners

By Frosty Wooldridge

4-10-8

Illegal alien migration into the United States costs American taxpayers $346 billion annually reported by the National Research Council. While employers of illegal aliens rake-in billions of dollars, the US citizens subsidize what may be called organized "Slavery in 21st Century America."

While Congress facilitates outsourcing, insourcing and offshoring of American jobs by the thousands weekly, that same Congress imports 182,000 legal immigrant monthly who need jobs. Another estimated 100,000 illegal aliens arrive each month without jobs. All those immigrants seize jobs from American citizens at slave wages.

What happens to the American taxpayer?

"Immigrants are poorer, pay less tax, and are more likely to receive public benefits than American citizens," said Edwin Rubenstein, reporting on the National Research Council's new book: "The New Americans: Economic, Demographics and Fiscal Effects of Immigration." The Social Contract Winter 2007-08. <http://www.thesoicalcontract.com/>www.thesoicalcontract.com

The NRC found that the average immigrant household receives $13,326 in federal welfare and pays $10,664.00 in federal taxes. Thus, American taxpayers shell out $2,682.00 for each immigrant household.

In addition, the report showed that immigrants affect 15 different executive agencies of the U.S. government.

Earned Income Tax Credit-fraud is rampant and IRS does little to verify existence of children. Clean Air and Climate Change-these goals are unattainable as long as US population grows-driven by unending immigration. Emergency medical treatment-US taxpayer money provides $250 million a year to help hospitals defray costs for illegal aliens. Bureau of Land Management-the Interior Department spends $1 million to mitigate environmental damage done by illegals crossing US southern border. Migrant educational grants-intended to help states educate children of illegal workers. More fraud from over-counting. Office of Foreign Labor Certification-immigrant workers depress wages for US citizens resulting in declines in federal revenues at $100 billion annually.

As shown on CBS with Katie Couric this past week, 300,000 pregnant Mexican women cross the border to birth their babies, known as 'anchor babies', in American hospitals at an average cost of $6,000.00 per birth with no complications. If the child suffers heart defects, Downs Syndrome, Autism or any other problems, the costs jump to $500,000.00 with long term care into the millions of dollars. All footed by the America taxpayer!

Not mentioned in Couric's report, that child enjoys free breakfasts and lunches through 13 years of publicly funded education at an average cost of $7,000.00 per year. Additionally, American taxpayers foot the bill for all medical and housing assistance for the child and mother. More hidden costs add up with ESL classes to teach the child English. Connecticut alone suffers 120 languages in their schools while Colorado suffers over 40 foreign languages that cripple their classrooms.

The list of expenses paid for by American taxpayer soars with time and numbers of illegal aliens. Additionally, legal immigrants sponsor their relatives in chain migration and family reunification at US taxpayer expense.

These immigrants take American jobs while they burn American taxpayer funds for immigrant welfare. This all happens while the US national debt approaches $10 trillion. Immigrants flood into this country while jobs cascade out to China where we owe $1 trillion in T-bills as of 2008. Additionally, we suffer a $700 billion annual trade deficit.

Once those illegal aliens hit this country, half of them work off the books and do not pay $401 billion dollars annually according to the 2005 Bear Stearns Report. Additionally, they form the second largest underground economy in the world. Both legal and illegal immigrants send $80 billion back to their home countries in cash transfers on untaxed money.

When does it end? Not any time soon! Who pays? You do! Like the proverbial golden calf, the United States taxpayer bleeds to death daily while our president and Congress fiddle, faddle and scratch their generous rear ends while they facilitate the death of America's middle class.

Our politicians create the problems they campaign to solve; but once in office, as John McCain, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama have proven with their time in the U.S. Senate-they work more against Americans than for them. The proof in the aforementioned report is, as they say, "in the pudding!"

http://www.rense.com/general81/dtli.htm

[kytwell 179]

Also another thing. Isn't there any prisons in Alabama? Here in my state at least they have work release programs for prisoners...

[웃 910]

Staggering Cost Of Illegal

Aliens In America

Taxpayers Taken To The Cleaners

By Frosty Wooldridge

4-10-8

Frosty Wooldridge

Eugenicist Frosty Wooldridge has the rabid right all atwitter!

Eugenicist, potential domestic terrorist and rabid right nutcase Frosty Wooldridge crawled out from under his rock recently with an article that has all the whackos from ALIPAC to VDARE in a tizzy.Titled Swallowing a scorpion from Mexico: immigration invasion of US, he stirs the ###### and speaks of the fantasies of the rabid right. Invasions, Reconquistas, slandering Hispanic politicians who reject his view of how the world should be. The same Frosty garbage, regurgitated once again.

Xenophobic speaker Frosty Wooldridge confronted at University of Houston

Thursday, November 17 2005 @ 02:39 PM CST

Contributed by: Perica

Views: 5,740

On Wednesday November 16th a man named Frosty Wooldridge came to the University of Houston Campus on a "Texas Patriot Speaking Tour". Frosty is the author of a book called Immigration's Unarmed Invasion: Deadly Consequencesand was planning to deliver an hour long presentation on the threats of illegal immigration including immigrants bringing diseases such as leprosy into the US, and the social chaos that may result from speaking more than one language. Frosty and his supporters (two elderly gentlemen) Primary concern of this afternoon appeared to be the repeal of HB 1403 a bill that allows non-status students who graduate from Texas high schools and reside here for more than 6 years receive instate tuition fees.

The Racist and Xenophobic message of Frosty and friends did not go unnoticed, youth from the Jovenes Immigrantes por un Futuro Mejor (JIFM, or Young Immigrants for a Better Future) and the Houston Chapter of Anti-Racist Actioncoordinated a protest of Frosty's planned presentation. Frosty was supposed to speak at Lynn Eusan Park, but by the time he got there, there was a group of students picketing with signs that read Immigration and Terrorism are not the same and For a World Without Borders. Frosty and his 2 senior friends decided it was not a very good place to set up shop and walked away, distributing literature on a path with much more foot traffic. The young protesters ended up following them there where a protest continued for at least an hour and a half. Numerous students on their way to and from class stopped by and many joined in the heckling of the racists. See Photos

Edited November 13, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[kytwell 179]

Executive Summary

This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

Among the findings:

Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household.

Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

With nearly two-thirds of illegal aliens lacking a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, not their legal status or heavy use of most social services.

On average, the costs that illegal households impose on federal coffers are less than half that of other households, but their tax payments are only one-fourth that of other households.

Many of the costs associated with illegals are due to their American-born children, who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth. Thus, greater efforts at barring illegals from federal programs will not reduce costs because their citizen children can continue to access them.

If illegal aliens were given amnesty and began to pay taxes and use services like households headed by legal immigrants with the same education levels, the estimated annual net fiscal deficit would increase from $2,700 per household to nearly $7,700, for a total net cost of $29 billion.

Costs increase dramatically because unskilled immigrants with legal status -- what most illegal aliens would become -- can access government programs, but still tend to make very modest tax payments.

Although legalization would increase average tax payments by 77 percent, average costs would rise by 118 percent.

The fact that legal immigrants with few years of schooling are a large fiscal drain does not mean that legal immigrants overall are a net drain -- many legal immigrants are highly skilled.

The vast majority of illegals hold jobs. Thus the fiscal deficit they create for the federal government is not the result of an unwillingness to work.

The results of this study are consistent with a 1997 study by the National Research Council, which also found that immigrants' education level is a key determinant of their fiscal impact.

http://www.cis.org/node/54