Wife's son is moving out already. I have concerns.

[slim 1,525]

Perhaps this is why Alla does not like me to leave the house unless I am "emptied".

It could be.

Seriously, once we're "emptied" we're not on the prowl like we are when we're full. We're always looking, but there's a big difference between, "Oh, that's nice" and "Oh, that's nice enough for me to throw down right in the middle of this grocery store and sop up with a biscuit."

The ladies know this. The good ones make sure we're "taken care of" whenever we head out into a target-rich environment. "Going to the gun club with your buddies? Bye. See you at supper time." "Going to the grocery store to pick up a loaf of bread.... hold on a sec."

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It could be.

Seriously, once we're "emptied" we're not on the prowl like we are when we're full. We're always looking, but there's a big difference between, "Oh, that's nice" and "Oh, that's nice enough for me to throw down right in the middle of this grocery store and sop up with a biscuit."

The ladies know this. The good ones make sure we're "taken care of" whenever we head out into a target-rich environment. "Going to the gun club with your buddies? Bye. See you at supper time." "Going to the grocery store to pick up a loaf of bread.... hold on a sec."

She goes with me to the gun club and all the guys that have not been emptied ask her to shoot their rifles. I think it is some sort of ####### substitute.

Seriously. she agrees with you on this and says so point blank.

[james&olya 1,121]

Frankly, in contrast to the common mythology here on the RUB forum, American women, for all their "issues," were better lovers overall. Yes, they didn't have that piazz dress code nor devoted hours to hair and make-up and clothing appearance...but when it came time to "dance," the American women seemed more open to more things...and were able to have real pleasure and orgasms.

Sorry to hear about your problems with your wife. I know that the reality across the board is probably that women are pretty much the same in most regards regardless of country or culture. I must say I have seen both extremes with the American women I have known. But there were increasingly very few of the good "dancers" I was meeting on the dating scene here. I think they were more likely to be staying married! Your post makes me think that perhaps I am even luckier than I had realized to find the wife I have from Russia. Without a doubt she is the best "dancer" I have ever known! Nothing mythical about it for us. But I have only the one relationship on which to base my judgment so I recognize you may know better what is typical.

Your observations about language and communication are spot-on! The only problems we have had thus far could have been so easily resolved if we could have had more nuance and accuracy in communication. But that continues to improve. Now we have very little of the 'Tarzan-English' or, as Olya says, her 'Russian English' that I was using for a while.

I have to agree with Gary about the importance of children to women, especially RUB women. But that has only helped bond Olya and I because of how much I want to be a good father to her children simply because I find that so rewarding for its own sake. It is SO important to be certain that you share the core values and principles with your foreign spouse! That was the primary thing I was looking for when I went on the dating sites. Only time will tell if we have really gotten it right but so far I am a believer! I hope you come out of this OK and maybe even ready to consider another try for a compatible RUB bride!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It is SO important to be certain that you share the core values and principles with your foreign spouse! That was the primary thing I was looking for when I went on the dating sites. Only time will tell if we have really gotten it right but so far I am a believer! I hope you come out of this OK and maybe even ready to consider another try for a compatible RUB bride!

So true. What is really important to you? Find a woman that has similar interests and you are good to go. When I met Alla by chance we ended up spending the whole evening together, and the next day and the next evening and all that night until I had to leave early in the morning, no sex, just stimulating conversation, nice dinners, etc. But during most of that time she spoke of her children and asked about mine and it was pretty clear that she was a woman who had similar values to mine. A person for whom other people are important. If a woman has children and does not put them ahead of herself, she is sick. She has serious mental problems, no kidding. And she would be incapable of of loving someone else, most especially YOU. When I asked Alla to marry me her "yes" was qualid=fied with "What about the children, can they come?" Good answer. She insisted that everything be in place for the children (father letter etc) BEFORE sending the petition. If the children could not benefit, this was not going to happen.

A person for whom things of lasting value are important. Education is more important than a cruise. Good health is more important than a new car. Children are more important than herself.

In terms of being good lovers, the FSU women I knew, in general were far better than Americans. Far better. And as far as Alla I can only say the "best by far". I mean, she put an immediate STOP to any interest in any other possibilities.

They do not have any extra parts and no built in vibrators. I think, physologically, they are pretty much the same as American women. In fact, when naked and not talking they can be difficult to tell from American women...well, ok, maybe their grooming and shaving habits are different, but anyone can buy a razor. I have said many times they are not automatronic sex robots or stepford wives, but they do generally have a better attitude and willingness to please the person that gives them pleasure and meets their needs. If their needs are a good father, and you meet that need, then prepare to be turned inside out and left to be scraped off the bed! Anyone thinking they are submissive stepford wife sex robots is in for a rude surprise!

It is probably one of the more offensive things that our sometimes drive-by posters can do is to imagine we have "purchased" the deluxe model sex doll. It shows their ignorance and no doubt general inability to be a good husband to a real woman.

Yeah, VV, if I were you and considered getting married again I would go straight back to Ukraine (I may be biased)

Try not to be bitter, you will get over this sooner or later...better sooner.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Your observations about language and communication are spot-on! The only problems we have had thus far could have been so easily resolved if we could have had more nuance and accuracy in communication. But that continues to improve. Now we have very little of the 'Tarzan-English' or, as Olya says, her 'Russian English' that I was using for a while.

A good agreement is to speak to each other and say "Look, I love you, probably more than you can imagine, but sometimes I may say something you do not understand or that means something different to you than it does to me. Just understand that I would never say anything to hurt you intentionally and if I do it is only a mistake...take it easy, let me know what I said wrong"

Alla told me that virtually word for word. When someone understands that you love them and would never do anything to hurt them, they will give you a lot more latitude. Works with children too, they KNOW who cares about them and they KNOW when you tell them they need to do something that you are probably right and probably have their best interest at heart

It is also something you just need to accept is GOING TO HAPPEN. If you cannot handle it, then marry a native speaker of your same language and never look back.

[james&olya 1,121]

A good agreement is to speak to each other and say "Look, I love you, probably more than you can imagine, but sometimes I may say something you do not understand or that means something different to you than it does to me. Just understand that I would never say anything to hurt you intentionally and if I do it is only a mistake...take it easy, let me know what I said wrong"

Alla told me that virtually word for word. When someone understands that you love them and would never do anything to hurt them, they will give you a lot more latitude. Works with children too, they KNOW who cares about them and they KNOW when you tell them they need to do something that you are probably right and probably have their best interest at heart

Excellent advice!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have to agree with Gary about the importance of children to women, especially RUB women. But that has only helped bond Olya and I because of how much I want to be a good father to her children simply because I find that so rewarding for its own sake.

The most satisfying thing in the world, IMO. Nothing better.

In a recent book "Marriages that Last" the author researched hundreds of marriages from 15 to 70 years in length and children were one of the most common and powerful things people noted as "gluing them together" But I will also say, IF you are having marital problems DO NOT make babies thinking it will fix your problems!

If your children can be your joy in life you will always be happy and have a good marriage. They require SO much for SO long that you may as well have the attitude that "this is it, this is my goal in life"

[baron555 934]

My relationship with my Alla totally echoes Gary and his Alla's.

Her son was mentioned in her first email to me as the most important thing in her life; I was given a choice to accept that from the beginning or not pursue anything. I accepted and have fulfilled that promise, to both of them.

We also early on had the same, Let me know if I say something stupid or rude, I probably didn't intend it conversation and we both did have some of those moments but we both never flinched an eyebrow over it.

I can not comprehend how two people who only have a Me Tarzan You Jane level of conversation can come to an agreement to marry.....having those conversations about nuances and such should be had before such comittment is made, IMO.

Yes during our early times, we both used the translation software to our advantage, we both would email back and forth in both Russian and English but soon took it all to Skype and that really helped with our level of conversation.

When we met for 10 days in Kiev, the first bunch of days and nights were only spent in the apartment talking and talking and talking and banging away on the laptop using Promt....there was banging going on in the bedroom....we were there to learn more of each other first before we learned even more of each other later!!

After that one trip together, we both made our decision and also later decided we didn't need to re-meet but just do the visa.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Baron I know what you guys went through to make sure you made a good life for that little guy. This kind of histiry helps a marriage also. As much as the we do not like the "bad stuff" it is when the bad stuff comes along (and dammit, it WILL) that you see what people are made of. Do they say "We will work together and fix this because WE CAN" or do they say "Hey, I did not sign up for this, see you later" when you do fix it, you are stronger and furether glued together. How could you hurt the person that was there when you really needed them? I mean REALLY needed them, not like "I need you to move the sofa"

I don't know, but I think unless you have done some of the things parents have to do and parents have to endure and worry about, well it ranks up there in the hardest things to do sometimes.

I think you and Alla have a good foundation, FWIW. I could be biased.

[visaveteran1 33]

Sorry to hear about your problems with your wife. I know that the reality across the board is probably that women are pretty much the same in most regards regardless of country or culture. I must say I have seen both extremes with the American women I have known. But there were increasingly very few of the good "dancers" I was meeting on the dating scene here. I think they were more likely to be staying married! Your post makes me think that perhaps I am even luckier than I had realized to find the wife I have from Russia. Without a doubt she is the best "dancer" I have ever known! Nothing mythical about it for us. But I have only the one relationship on which to base my judgment so I recognize you may know better what is typical.

Your observations about language and communication are spot-on! The only problems we have had thus far could have been so easily resolved if we could have had more nuance and accuracy in communication. But that continues to improve. Now we have very little of the 'Tarzan-English' or, as Olya says, her 'Russian English' that I was using for a while.

I have to agree with Gary about the importance of children to women, especially RUB women. But that has only helped bond Olya and I because of how much I want to be a good father to her children simply because I find that so rewarding for its own sake. It is SO important to be certain that you share the core values and principles with your foreign spouse! That was the primary thing I was looking for when I went on the dating sites. Only time will tell if we have really gotten it right but so far I am a believer! I hope you come out of this OK and maybe even ready to consider another try for a compatible RUB bride!

James, thanks for your thoughtful post.

It seems my posts are becoming a "cautionary tale," so I'll continue posting with that intention.

I want to speak to the issue of children of Russian women as it relates to marriage to USA men. I speak to this issue because I've heard comments about it since starting this thread.

I was initially reluctant to marry my Russian wife because she had a teenaged son; this was a bigger issue than her poor English. I told her I had raised my own son and felt finished with that very important part of being a man--fatherhood. I was older and living a modest but comfortable lifestyle. I felt I could take on a wife emotionally and financially, but that was my limit in expanding my new "family." My wife told me her son was going into the Russian Army soon and afterwards would get married and stay in Russia...but, just in case he did come to the US, she would cover the extra cost.

She cleverly said what I needed to hear...her son would never be a burden to me. And there was a "buffer time" when he would not be an issue. That buffer time turned out to be three years. Unfortunately for me, her statements all turned out to be wrong and he arrived here in September...and my wife has paid for next to nothing to get him here or pay for his needs.

I brought him here for two reasons: He was going to turn 21 years-old and I felt pressured and compelled to not let him "timeout" with his chance to come to the US. And, my sense of basic humanity overrode what I personally wanted to happen...that he stay out of my life.

Some will say step-fathering is rewarding and even required male behavior. I say it really depends on what's agreed on up front, what the age of the child is, everyone's financial situation, and where in the lifecycle you're at. Taking on a younger stepchild in your forties could perhaps be a positive and rewarding thing. Taking on an adult stepchild (over 21 years) when your in your early sixties is tough...and I don't see much reward. His arrival seemed to hasten our demise and I spent a small fortune on him...yet he probably highly dislikes me through his mother's view of me. I can cling to "I did the right thing;" that only does so much to counter the feeling I've be used.

I blame myself...in my guts I knew the day would come when her son would be a problem for me. It may appear my wife was just being a "good mother" but she left her son alone for 4 months before he went into the Army (he was 17). After his one year tour, he lived alone (19 years old to 21). So, while my wife ultimately got him into the US, he probably has abandonment issues with his mother. I certainly would.

This is messy emotionally for everybody. I urge men considering a foreign wife to do an assessment of their life with the innate difficulties having a Russian wife AND her children...young or older. Can you cut it emotionally and financially? Do a "cost/benefit analysis." The sweet and lovely Russo-American family scenario can go nightmare.

As for the latest update on my divorce...my wife and I signed a "Marriage Separation Agreement" in front of a notary. In my state there is a six-month required separation before divorce, This agreement is not required but it sets out what I agreed to pay her and is a good paper trail of our separation. Remember, no lawyers in this process (I hope). So far, she's been cooperative and even friendly. I'm pleased but cautious.

Edited November 30, 2011 by visaveteran1

[baron555 934]

Glad all is progressing as well as one could hope for you VV.

Yes, for me there is a big difference between step-fathering a teenager and a 2 year old (which I did, he's almost five now).

I can admit when it came time to determining who, of the handful of serious women I was communicating with, could be the best fit, for some, the age of their child did play a factor in that decision.

Alla's son was 2 at the time. Another had a 6 year old (I saw that as not an issue; we had a Skype relationship already started), another had a 13 year old (who I thought I could make work but knew it would require a lot of effort).

I wonder, did you have a relationship with your wife's son during your courtship? How did that go?

Yes, it seems that you didn't stick to your plan and allowed your worst fears to come true.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We appreciate your candor, VV. I really am not pleased to see a family break up and the loss for everyone is great. I know you will want to "rejoice" in your freedom but I think it is probably not really so joyous an occasion.

I wish you the best, and your advice is good. Know what you want and do not ocmpromise because she is hot and good in bed. Children are not for everyone and if you are not able to commit to them and be happy in doing it, then it is best not to. There is nothing wrong in not being able to do that.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

Children are not for everyone and if you are not able to commit to them and be happy in doing it, then it is best not to. There is nothing wrong in not being able to do that.

Si, man. Before the eventual Mrs. T-B., I made it clear (in every venue -- on-line, in person, etc.) that I was available for a relationship with someone plus "our kids, not yours." This is perhaps why I was un-remarried for 19-ish years -- everyone I met either had kids, was too old to have them, or was too warped, demanding, or insane to be worthy of intentional reproduction.

Relationships are hard enough to form. Long-distance relationships (complicated by language-barriers) are even more challenging. Throw one or more existing children into the mix, and things become complex in a hurry: your relationship with the potential Mrs. RUBbette; yours with each of her children (constantly evolving or in flux as they grow or go through life changes); hers with her children in terms of immigration and her relationship with you; etc. If you yourself have children and an Ex, the complexity multiplies itself further.

Two paragraphs without a punchline... I must be sick, sneeze man.

Edited November 30, 2011 by TBoneTX

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Si, man. Before the eventual Mrs. T-B., I made it clear (in every venue -- on-line, in person, etc.) that I was available for a relationship with someone plus "our kids, not yours." This is perhaps why I was un-remarried for 19-ish years -- everyone I met either had kids, was too old to have them, or was too warped, demanding, or insane to be worthy of intentional reproduction.

Relationships are hard enough to form. Long-distance relationships (complicated by language-barriers) are even more challenging. Throw one or more existing children into the mix, and things become complex in a hurry: your relationship with the potential Mrs. RUBbette; yours with each of her children (constantly evolving or in flux as they grow or go through life changes); hers with her children in terms of immigration and her relationship with you; etc. If you yourself have children and an Ex, the complexity multiplies itself further.

Two paragraphs without a punchline... I must be sick, sneeze man.

You are to be commended for honesty and not compromising TBone. I am sure your entire family will be better off because of it. And the only way, IMO, to go about this with a woman with children is that I have to be willing to consider the children OURS and so does she. If any lines are allowed to be drawn you may as well go straight to the divorce attorney. We are either in this as a family all the time, every time or we are not in this.

[TBoneTX 45,288]

You are to be commended for honesty and not compromising TBone.

Gracias, G-Bone, si man.

I am sure your entire family will be better off because of it.

Well, Mrs. T-B. says that I don't spend enough time with (or helping with) young Mini-Bone, and that I'm up till all hours on VJ. None of this is untrue, no man, sigh man.